/regen got buffed. Cats and dogs live in happiness.
The way I see it, Regen should be able to resist regen debuff like SR resists def debuffs. Regen already has another weakness and that's to -recharge debuffs.
I say that the regen debuff resistance should scale with level and / or be modified by heal enhancements.
Also, some regen debuff resistance should be added to Instant Healing.
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WOOHOO!!!|
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Regeneration - Fast Healing: This power now provides regeneration debuff protection.
Regeneration - Resilience: This power now grants Scale 1.25 resistance to all damage types. |
The devs finally listened!!
No -recharge resistance, but I'm exceptionally happy that they gave regen at least one of the things it's needed for a LONG time now.
I've been campaigning for the regeneration debuff protection on and off for at least a couple years, and I threw out the idea of having Resilience affect all damage types a while back as well.
I have no idea if any of my posts had anything to do with it, and don't especially care if they did or not. I'm just happy it finally got some love.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I just checked in game: 11.25% is at level 1. it goes up to 25.35% at lvl 50. Also it's freakin enhanceable! So we're gonna be sitting at ~50% regen resist at 50. If you can actually slot FH. which most of us don't >.<
Resilience is a base of 9.38% res(all), nearly double what it is now.
Devs love us. It's true!
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
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Ohhh good... Wasn't 100% sure on that cause toxic has a different # currently
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Originally Posted by Elegost
Resilience is a base of 9.38% res(all), nearly double what it is now.
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can anyone figure out the name of the scrapper specific IO set? That's seriously the only thing I have left to get out of Beta and I can't find it :[
I got all the EA changes, ice armor for stalkers, regen changes, time manip, poison changes, (don't care about beam), dark blast, StJ working with /SD, everything.
Except for that freakin IO set >:[
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
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Keyes is not a hard trial. Lets see you solo the groups of Warworks and IDF that are chilling around there and then tell me your regen is on par with Willpower or Shields or (Soon to be) EA.
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Originally Posted by Lone_mutant_
Lol what game are you playing? im not the only regen thats running around with boss stats ive seen others too and i usually outlast whatever tank/brute is on the team. and lol @ endgame. keyes=cake for regen. mybe your not doing it right? ofcourse its not all "cake" but its far from "lame duck"
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Quoted for Truth. I'm sitting at 51.XX% resistance to regen debuffs, its pretty awesome right now.
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Originally Posted by Elegost
I just checked in game: 11.25% is at level 1. it goes up to 25.35% at lvl 50. Also it's freakin enhanceable! So we're gonna be sitting at ~50% regen resist at 50. If you can actually slot FH. which most of us don't >.<
Resilience is a base of 9.38% res(all), nearly double what it is now. Devs love us. It's true! |
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The AOs are not part of i21. They are at best i22/i23. I believe this was confirmed in one of the dev chat/Ustreams.
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Originally Posted by Elegost
can anyone figure out the name of the scrapper specific IO set? That's seriously the only thing I have left to get out of Beta and I can't find it :[
I got all the EA changes, ice armor for stalkers, regen changes, time manip, poison changes, (don't care about beam), dark blast, StJ working with /SD, everything. Except for that freakin IO set >:[ |
I definitely would have missed that, then. Thanks for the clarity, I'll stop worrying about it.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
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The day that happens I'm going to just cut the devs out of the loop and hack instant healing into practiced brawler in the power spreadsheets and call it even.
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Originally Posted by Tannim222
The way I see it, Regen should be able to resist regen debuff like SR resists def debuffs.
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I ran a regen to 50 recently and pimped it out, had instant healing up almost all of the time, with softcapped s/l def, and it's not as powerful nowadays compared to other sets as some seem to think it is.|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
Instant Healing toggle returns, Scrappers tanking Hamidon, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
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It's far from unplayable or broken, but performance-wise, I wouldn't pick it very often. My problem with it is that you have to spend so much energy on keeping yourself alive, at best, at the same rate as other secondaries that require little to no effort at all, and some of which offer offensive bonuses on top of that. As things stand, regen should be far and away the most survivable secondary, because that's pretty much all it offers (survivability) and it requires more energy and attention to attain it than the other sets. And the one extra regen offers, endurance benefits, was diminished when stamina became an inherent.
Maybe these buffs will move the set in the right direction, but I doubt they will be enough to make the set truly competitive performance-wise.
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So.... how you like the MA on Tanks???
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The day that happens I'm going to just cut the devs out of the loop and hack instant healing into practiced brawler in the power spreadsheets and call it even.
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Are you actually saying Regeneration is the only melee secondary that offers "only survivability" especially with the caveat that the other thing it offers is endurance?
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
As things stand, regen should be far and away the most survivable secondary, because that's pretty much all it offers (survivability) and it requires more energy and attention to attain it than the other sets. And the one extra regen offers, endurance benefits, was diminished when stamina became an inherent.
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Quote:
So it should be much more tougher than WP, Inv, and SR?|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
I ran a regen to 50 recently and pimped it out, had instant healing up almost all of the time, with softcapped s/l def, and it's not as powerful nowadays compared to other sets as some seem to think it is.
It's far from unplayable or broken, but performance-wise, I wouldn't pick it very often. My problem with it is that you have to spend so much energy on keeping yourself alive, at best, at the same rate as other secondaries that require little to no effort at all, and some of which offer offensive bonuses on top of that. As things stand, regen should be far and away the most survivable secondary, because that's pretty much all it offers (survivability) and it requires more energy and attention to attain it than the other sets. And the one extra regen offers, endurance benefits, was diminished when stamina became an inherent. Maybe these buffs will move the set in the right direction, but I doubt they will be enough to make the set truly competitive performance-wise. |
The active play style of regen is why I play it. I played all the secondaries fully IOd out at some point. S/L softcap */ElA, */FA, */DA, WP, Inv, SR and Shields at the softcap even the up and coming EA (ok before the changes coming up). REGEN is NOT the push over that people make it sound like to be. Play style is gonna be way different than the rest. You just can't go attack crazy.
the difference is: You have to play your secondary. :O
OH EM GEEE
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
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I think he was saying (I could be wrong) is that the other secondaries can go attack crazy and still retain their survivability but regen cannot. So since regen loses a certain amount of dps because of all the clicking, perhaps they should be more tougher in general? Kinda like tanks.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
So it should be much more tougher than WP, Inv, and SR?
The active play style of regen is why I play it. I played all the secondaries fully IOd out at some point. S/L softcap */ElA, */FA, */DA, WP, Inv, SR and Shields at the softcap even the up and coming EA (ok before the changes coming up). REGEN is NOT the push over that people make it sound like to be. Play style is gonna be way different than the rest. You just can't go attack crazy. |
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You're never going to convince me that Quick Recovery is the booby prize among powerset advantages.
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Originally Posted by Spectral_Hunter
I think he was saying (I could be wrong) is that the other secondaries can go attack crazy and still retain their survivability but regen cannot. So since regen loses a certain amount of dps because of all the clicking, perhaps they should be more tougher in general? Kinda like tanks.
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Quote:
Well, I didn't say I agree with what the other poster stated but okay...|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
You're never going to convince me that Quick Recovery is the booby prize among powerset advantages.
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But I'll be devil's advocate. Doesn't WP have QR too? But WP has the advantage of having toggles so the player can concentrate on attacking.
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If your argument is "Regen has disadvantages compared to Willpower" that would be relevant. If your devil's advocate argument is that Regen is at the bottom of the barrel, its completely irrelevant.
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Originally Posted by Spectral_Hunter
Well, I didn't say I agree with what the other poster stated but okay...
But I'll be devil's advocate. Doesn't WP have QR too? But WP has the advantage of having toggles so the player can concentrate on attacking. |
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Quote:
The first argument is a bit closer to my argument. I am talking about overall performance, not just survivability based on the secondary. I am not saying Regen is at the bottom of the barrel (although there seems to be some who feel this way and perhaps they may be right). What I am arguing is, because of the way regen works, its overall performance, even though its survivability is comparable to the other sets, is weaker.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If your argument is "Regen has disadvantages compared to Willpower" that would be relevant. If your devil's advocate argument is that Regen is at the bottom of the barrel, its completely irrelevant.
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All the other secondaries mostly rely on toggles and passives. Regen relies more on active defense. So while the other scrappers of other secondaries can freely use their attack chains without interruptions, the regen scrapper has to fit in a heal click in-between thus reducing its overall dps.
That's all great but if regen is penalized in dps because of how it works, it should be balanced by having more suvivability, perhaps be the top of all the scrapper secondaries. I mean, isn't that the whole point behind the theory behind tankers? Higher defenses for lower dps? In regen's case, it's same or lower defenses for lower dps.
I'm not convinced Regen is penalized for DPS on average compared to, say, Willpower. Yes, yes, I understand the obvious and undeniable fact that when you use a click heal or what not, you aren't attacking. But Regen loves recharge. DPS loves recharge. Yes, you CAN build a Willpower for really high recharge, but it isn't benefitting your survivability, so you're making compromises to get there. Willpower has to compromise survivability for DPS, and vice versa. Regen has no such compromise. Full bore recharge benefits both survivability and DPS.
It's an overly simplistic argument, I agree. And some other sets, like Shield Defense, DO benefit in meaningful ways from high recharge. But it wouldn't surprise me if, say, good IO Regen builds are doing as much or more damage than good IO Willpower builds in practice, or other builds that don't benefit much from recharge, or have too many other priorities to prioritize recharge. That's doubly true if your Regen has enough base survivability that in normal play, you're not hitting many clicks in the first place.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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One more item to cross off the list! Very nice touch making it enhanceable.
Though, of course, they forgot to add a couple patch notes regarding this issue:
New Powers Tech!
- In addition to different effects based on NPC rank, powers may now have different effects based on Player Archetype and even specific powersets!
- added -100% regen debuff to all NPC attacks specific to all 3 forms of Regeneration.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
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Aren't all balancing adjustments done based on SO setups? If that's the case, recharge doesn't play a factor. Which brings us back to regen underperforming in dps. |
Originally Posted by Werner
I'm not convinced Regen is penalized for DPS on average compared to, say, Willpower. Yes, yes, I understand the obvious and undeniable fact that when you use a click heal or what not, you aren't attacking. But Regen loves recharge. DPS loves recharge. Yes, you CAN build a Willpower for really high recharge, but it isn't benefitting your survivability, so you're making compromises to get there. Willpower has to compromise survivability for DPS, and vice versa. Regen has no such compromise. Full bore recharge benefits both survivability and DPS.
It's an overly simplistic argument, I agree. And some other sets, like Shield Defense, DO benefit in meaningful ways from high recharge. But it wouldn't surprise me if, say, good IO Regen builds are doing as much or more damage than good IO Willpower builds in practice, or other builds that don't benefit much from recharge, or have too many other priorities to prioritize recharge. That's doubly true if your Regen has enough base survivability that in normal play, you're not hitting many clicks in the first place. |
Again I'm just arguing because this topic is interesting. I'm no expert and I certainly haven't done any thorough research on the matter. I'm just trying to work this out systematically.
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Based on SO slotting, Regen blows the doors off of most other powersets on mitigation. It even does well compared to Willpower. Its only in invention-slotted higher end builds that Regen's weaknesses start to become apparent.
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Originally Posted by Spectral_Hunter
Aren't all balancing adjustments done based on SO setups? If that's the case, recharge doesn't play a factor. Which brings us back to regen underperforming in dps.
Again I'm just arguing because this topic is interesting. I'm no expert and I certainly haven't done any thorough research on the matter. I'm just trying to work this out systematically. |
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I saw the regeneration debuff % and
. Maybe we can convince Synapse that is too small?
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Dark/Shield Build Thread