Spectral_Hunter
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Posts
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Quote:Aren't all balancing adjustments done based on SO setups? If that's the case, recharge doesn't play a factor. Which brings us back to regen underperforming in dps.Originally Posted by Werner
I'm not convinced Regen is penalized for DPS on average compared to, say, Willpower. Yes, yes, I understand the obvious and undeniable fact that when you use a click heal or what not, you aren't attacking. But Regen loves recharge. DPS loves recharge. Yes, you CAN build a Willpower for really high recharge, but it isn't benefitting your survivability, so you're making compromises to get there. Willpower has to compromise survivability for DPS, and vice versa. Regen has no such compromise. Full bore recharge benefits both survivability and DPS.
It's an overly simplistic argument, I agree. And some other sets, like Shield Defense, DO benefit in meaningful ways from high recharge. But it wouldn't surprise me if, say, good IO Regen builds are doing as much or more damage than good IO Willpower builds in practice, or other builds that don't benefit much from recharge, or have too many other priorities to prioritize recharge. That's doubly true if your Regen has enough base survivability that in normal play, you're not hitting many clicks in the first place.
Again I'm just arguing because this topic is interesting. I'm no expert and I certainly haven't done any thorough research on the matter. I'm just trying to work this out systematically. -
Quote:The first argument is a bit closer to my argument. I am talking about overall performance, not just survivability based on the secondary. I am not saying Regen is at the bottom of the barrel (although there seems to be some who feel this way and perhaps they may be right). What I am arguing is, because of the way regen works, its overall performance, even though its survivability is comparable to the other sets, is weaker.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If your argument is "Regen has disadvantages compared to Willpower" that would be relevant. If your devil's advocate argument is that Regen is at the bottom of the barrel, its completely irrelevant.
All the other secondaries mostly rely on toggles and passives. Regen relies more on active defense. So while the other scrappers of other secondaries can freely use their attack chains without interruptions, the regen scrapper has to fit in a heal click in-between thus reducing its overall dps.
That's all great but if regen is penalized in dps because of how it works, it should be balanced by having more suvivability, perhaps be the top of all the scrapper secondaries. I mean, isn't that the whole point behind the theory behind tankers? Higher defenses for lower dps? In regen's case, it's same or lower defenses for lower dps. -
Quote:Well, I didn't say I agree with what the other poster stated but okay...Originally Posted by Arcanaville
You're never going to convince me that Quick Recovery is the booby prize among powerset advantages.
But I'll be devil's advocate. Doesn't WP have QR too? But WP has the advantage of having toggles so the player can concentrate on attacking. -
Quote:I think he was saying (I could be wrong) is that the other secondaries can go attack crazy and still retain their survivability but regen cannot. So since regen loses a certain amount of dps because of all the clicking, perhaps they should be more tougher in general? Kinda like tanks.Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
So it should be much more tougher than WP, Inv, and SR?
The active play style of regen is why I play it. I played all the secondaries fully IOd out at some point. S/L softcap */ElA, */FA, */DA, WP, Inv, SR and Shields at the softcap even the up and coming EA (ok before the changes coming up). REGEN is NOT the push over that people make it sound like to be. Play style is gonna be way different than the rest. You just can't go attack crazy. -
Quote:If you are so tired of these discussions, why do you post on them? Just ignore them. I'm sure you don't comment on every forum post. But you choose to post here which means you wish to continue to add to the discussion as I am doing now.Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
NO... I'm sorry but I am tired of discussions like these. Yeah I'd say every member of the league was level shifted with all 5 Incarnate powers available. The original point the OP made was that WITH incarnate powers Blasters were useless and several others here sade they didn't even like inviting them to their teams. I just gave you two examples of teams with half the members being BLASTERS that had absolutely no difficulty at all with either trial.. so exactly how are they under powered or useless.
You want an example where no incarnates were available.. I have that as well. A good while back I joined a Citadel TF with my AR/Dev blasterwhen the leader advertised on globals. I arrived in Talos and discovered I was on an 8 man team that consisted of 7 Blasters and 1 Defender. no Tanks, no Scrappers and no controllers to "Keep us poor defenseless blasters from harm". Even I was leery of how it would go to be honest. We did have some deaths, of course, and our Defender had his hand full healing and buffing but our damage oputput was so high we simply blew through missions. Now last time I checked Citadel's task forces was a 25-30 level affair so no incarnate powers operate.. besdies this was before they existed.
The bottom line is that none of the ATs are defective and you can have fun playing any of them. What you need for any team on any mission to succeed is good players that know how to make their characters work. With IO sets and purples anyone can produce high numbers.. heck I can't recall the players name but there is a guy out there somewhere with a maxed out blaster that solos GMs and takes on Rikti Pylons... throw enough money at anything and it will perform but at that point is it your skill as a player that is successful or the several billion in INF you went through that made the difference, [no disrespect intended to that blaster .. soloing a GM is quite a feat no matter how its accomplished
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Too much attention is being paid to numbers in this game by some players.. Hey if your idea of fun is to spend hours pouring over columns of figures maybe you need to play the new MMO.. IRS Agent [no there is no such game. at least I HOPE not lol]. Numbers are fine but strategy and experience are better. My cute little Elf Maiden Arch/Ice blaster has saved many a team from a total wipe with her "point sticks" and on numerous occasions has been the only one left standing in a room, friend or foe, after a fight ended... and no not because I ran away and came back. my Fire/Fire/Flames Blaster is my Blapper and on trials when an MK Vickie is in her face she lets loose with her close ranged attacks and makes it wish it had picked on ANYONE else.
I'm sorry but I don't agree with your thinking.. Numbers do NOT win battles not in real life or in this game. I'll take a team of GOOD players with average characters over a team of complete morons with tricked out builds any day. Especially on these trials I have seen way too many times where all it takes is ONE jerk that can't or won't follow instructions to turn a trial into a miserable experience (and failure) for all.
I actually don't like number crunching either but I understand the need for them. Numbers remove subjectivity. Everything you stated is subjective. Whether you are right or wrong isn't the issue. But the game cannot be balanced upon anectodal subjective data.
Again, no one is saying blasters are completely worthless. The argument is compared to the other ATs, they appear to be less valuable or a bit underpowered. Even in your 7 blaster and 1 defender group, I can presume the defender was significantly more valuable to the team than any of the blasters. That's my subjective perspective that happens to be the opposite observation from yours.
And also, my understanding is, the game before the incarnate system is balanced around SOs or am I wrong about this? -
Quote:Sorry but I see this type of argument a lot so I thought I would add some input. Anecdotal experience is anecdotal experience. The majority of your league could have been level shifted with judgment, destiny and lore slots all filled up. If that's the case, any group can plow through the current iTrials without any issues. Now take a group of unlsotted characters, those same trials become much more difficult. In other words, it's just hard to conclude on anything with the information you provided.Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
I haven't really bothered with this thread for a while. But today I was on a mini BAF and a Speed Lambda that just made me think about all this talk of blaster being useless and not needed or even welcome on some teams. Okay we did the lambda first and of the 16 players involved 7 were blasters and 2 were corruptors ... we had a grand total of 1 defender (the league leader), 1 tank and 1 Brute. We added a SoA crab and the rest were scrappers. Yeah I am sure you are think OMG almost half the league is blasters and no control the death toll must have been horrid. Yeah it was .... I have never seen so many IDT drop so fast in my life. Even on the Glowie phase I visited the hospital once and we finished in near record time.
Unlike many recent Lambdas I have been on we did not leave every portal open for almlost 2 minutes (till 18:00) instead we closed all but two and amazingly still managed to wipe out 30 IDT for the extra Astral quickly and then dropped poor Maurader before he got to use his catch phrase "On the Ground again" twice. In short it was one of the best lambdas I have been on in recent days.
Okay we moved on the the mini BAF. Phase one was over so fast it barely seemed like I got to attack much at all. then, since our lone tank had quit, a blaster used snipe to get Northstar to the north wall and we tore her and her adds to pieces.
I dc'd for a moment with less than 1 minute left on the prisoner phase so I don't know exactly how that went but in over 4 minutes not a single prisoner had come close to escaping.. so I am guessing they got the added astral for no prisoners escaped.
I got back as Siege was lumbering into position and along with everyone else opened up on him. The big pile of steel dropped like a rock and then we tore him and his girl friend apart. Oh did I mention we had gotten a little larger between trials.. we had 20 in the league on the BAF and 10 were blaster, one corrupter woth our SoA crab adding his AoE attacks.
Aside from the brief crash, which cost me at least one Astral, it was a totally enjoyable experience for my Fire/Fire/Flame Blaster. Let's face facts any good group of players can succeed at anything in this game if they are willing to work together.. We have seen all Blaster ITFs, All Defenders STFs, ect, ect.
And I think everyone here agrees that every AT is adequate. The crux of the argument is, are blasters still underperforming in comparison to other ATs? -
All I know is, if the tier 9 power is something akin to "Heavy Barrel" (an incredibly fun old school arcade game...man, I'm old), I'm rolling up a new Beam Gun hero.
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I generally focus my attention on one or two characterss. Like it was mentioned, it is too hard for me to RP a lot of characters and in the end, all the characters end up suffering with shallow, meaningless stories. So I decided years ago, I'd stick with just a couple at most.
I too am somewhat disappointed with the status of Virtue RP. I know players really like bases, guild halls and such but they really do end up segregating the population. Oddly I actually agree with the big MMO developers and their reasons why they don't want to implement player housing; they want everyone out in the world.
I'm up for something like this but my biggest hurdle is game time. I play really late. Fortunately I have managed to find a few people who play during my playtimes but I'm always looking to expand my roleplay beyond our little group.
I only play two characters, a L50 blaster and a L27 tanker. My global is @spectral hunter so if anyone wants to group up and develop some serious RP, feel free to contact me. -
Quote:"Where's Sully?"Originally Posted by Dante
Yep, going Commando in the UK means without underwear, a popular choice on laundry day.
However, in my house, any mention of the term is generally met by hundreds of quotes from the greatest action movie ever, normally all done in poor Austrian accents.
"I let him go."
Greatest one liner Arnold movie of all time. -
Like most matured MMOs, I think the biggest hurdle will be the math.
There's so much number crunching in this game and not all of it is intuitive. But like I said, this happens to MMOs as they age. -
Quote:Of course you're full. People keep feeding the trolls even though they are warned not to.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I don't think so - I just ate, and I don't feel hungry anymore
And this will be my first and last response to a GG post. -
Quote:This is the most obvious and logical reason why old servers will not be VIP. Paragon would be shooting themselves in the foot by completely restricting old players from accessing at least some of their old characters.Originally Posted by Lightfoot
If part of the CoH: Freedom spiel to lure returning players back to the game is that they will be able to access their old characters, then turning one of the existing servers into a VIP server runs counter to this intent.
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Quote:All your post tells me is that most players want to be able to progress their characters and that is the primary goal. Content, trials, soloing, IOs...etc, are secondary to achieving that first goal. Now some people will say they like a particular style of play but my assertion is, players will go for the progressive rewards in spite of the content.Originally Posted by Garielle
A lot of players, myself included, express that we find repetitive grinding of the same content to be boring and undesirable...snip
Levels 1-49, the best way to progress your character is to level up. So it is logical that people would take the easiest and most efficient ways to do so. That doesn't mean they particularly like the grinding they do.
At 50, before incarnates came out, there was really only one way to progress your character: IO sets. That was essentially the endgame for a very long time. But unlike incarnates, you could progress in a variety of ways and was never locked into a very specific path. Once incarnate powers came out, that became the end game progression.
The problem isn't iTrials. The problem is, it's the only reasonable way to earn progressive rewards at 50. In other MMOs, this is common but they make it clear from the very beginning that their end game will be raiding. CoH didn't. For a long period of time, players could achieve endgame progression using different playstyles. Now it is trials and trials alone. Had CoH been a raiding game from the onset, there wouldn't be any issues.
Now, the devs can continue to push trials and just trials. It's their right and their game. But as much as players want progressive rewards, each player also has a threshold on how much unsuitable content they are willing to grind.
The people who are complaining just want multiple paths. But the devs have been silent on the matter. All they have revealed is they are going to introduce more trials. -
Quote:So if a league takes one hour to complete an iTrial (30 min to setup, 30 min to run), a solo player should receive the same reward for playing for one hour in a hypothetical solo incarnate system? I have a feeling you don't mean this.Originally Posted by Arilou
Because there's time-investment inherent in setting up a team.
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Quote:Again I think this is where we differ on what we consider the end game. You are saying the end game is multi-team trials. I'm saying end game is the ability to continue to progress your character. Could it be that people quit because in the past they hit 50 and could no longer progress their character? Could it be that players are so conditioned to raiding that they automatically equate character progression with raiding even though it doesn't have to be that way?Originally Posted by Furio
Because they *are* (supposition, but I would bet almost any amount of money) going to do something non-trial related for Incarnate progression. However, end-game multi-team content is the *one* area that CoH has been almost completely missing for the 7 years of it's existence, so they're going to add some. It's not the end of the world or representative of a complete paradigm shift. They're simply adding a type of content that hasn't been well-represented in the game in the past, and has not only been requested, but cited as "reason for leaving" due to it's absence on exit surveys.
Let me make this clear. The devs should make trials. But I am saying that should not be the focal point of their end game. -
Quote:That's great and I hope the devs continue to provide trials for people to run. But I hope they don't ignore or neglect the solo and small group aspect which has been the hallmark of CoH for seven years.Originally Posted by Gryphster
I returned to the game specifically because of this new 'raid' content. I am a WoW refugee and find it delightfully easy to just jump into one of these 'raids'. Such a low stress environment too. People are generally friendly, the runs don't take long, and progression is steady. The fact that you can actually fail at Keyes makes it interesting. The fact that you can succeed at it with a PUG, makes it fun.
Off on a tangent here but I sometimes wonder if CoH has a laid back community because it didn't focus on raiding? I sometimes wonder if a heavy focus on raiding actually can be a detriment to an online community? Probably a lot of factors that causes this but something I've pondered in the past. -
Quote:You made some great observations.Originally Posted by Biowraith
snipped great response.
Trials aren't inherently better than solo or small group content. If it were, they would stand on their own merits. They wouldn't need to reward people with better stuff. That's also not saying there are people who truly do enjoy running trials. But even that I think is secondary.
The primary goal for the vast majority of players is to be able to progress their characters at a reasonable pace. Thats why people always predominantly take the path of least resistance. Soloing, grouping, raiding is just a means to the ultimate goal. Sure people have preferences but in the end most players generally want the same thing.
The idea of trials isn't inherently better but I think I understand why devs go that route. We all know of someone who sticks around a game only because their friends play it. If a player is invested in the game community, they are less likely to quit. So the popular method is devising end content that "forces" players to play together hoping by doing so, it will foster community.
The problem with CoH is, historically the game wasn't designed that way. It was designed to let players play as they wished and afforded them ways to progress in multiple ways. Again I don't see the rationalization of altering how the game functioned after seven years. If this game were like that game with night elves, it'd be different since that game from the onset made it clear the endgame is raiding.
And like you said at the end, with a smaller population, isn't it more viable for CoH to continue to provide end game content for those who don't want to run trials? -
Quote:I'm not exactly sure why this comment was directed at me.Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
To the folks saying making solo/team content is difficult: I'm of the mind that they can EASILY make a solo/small teams path that fits fine with the current trials. If they don't want folks ignoring the trials, they can easily put in timer lockouts on such content.
The devs of this game aren't dumb.
Let's give them a little bit more credit please.
I never said making solo and small team content was more difficult. Heck, I would even argue making trials takes more effort and resources due to the greater ccomplexity in balancing it.
I'm trying to understand why players are so convinced and conditioned to believe that raids/trials are the only way to make an end game. The end should cater to all forms of playstyles like it always has been. -
Quote:I suppose reasonable time is determined by dev testing and player feedback. I do think the current system is unreasonable though.Originally Posted by Arilou
cut long post
Here's an interesting question for you. Why does the solo path or small team path need to be significantly slower than the trial path? Why does the trial path need to have incentives to make people want to run them? -
Quote:I understand your point and you probably caught the guy using hyperbole.Originally Posted by Arilou
Yes they were. TF commander.
But comparing an accolade, which if I remember correctly, was specifically designed to be very minor by design and incarnate powers is bit of a stretch. -
I think the heart of the matter of all this is that the vast majority of players want progressive rewards in a reasonable time frame while having fun. Progressive rewards are essentially ways to improve our characters and make them more powerful. Fun is subjective to the individual as that person may find enjoyment spending most of their time in trials, small teams or soloing.
Currently, the way the Incarnate system is designed, only those who enjoy trials have the ability to receive progressive rewards. If you dont run trials, you will not be able to improve your character at a reasonable rate. I do think this is a bad design considering how CoH has developed and evolved over the years. The game never centered around trials/raids yet now in the Incarnate system, content and character development is gated. I dont see the logic of forming a game for seven years one way then changing the dynamics in such a radical fashion.
Now, some people are saying there is plenty of new content for those who dont like the iTrials. Not really. As I said at the very beginning, the vast majority of players want progressive rewards, which ultimately means the end game. Most, if not all, of the so called end game is now all about Incarnate powers. All the other content affects earlier levels and as a result has no impact upon collecting rewards at the end.
There are others who say if you dont run trials, you dont need Incarnate powers. Well, technically, those who run the trials dont need them either. All it does is gate content and make the trials easier. Which is ironic since the raiding community often wants challenging content but by over gearing their characters, ends up trivializing the raids that was once very difficult (proving again, what people really want is to be able to progress their characters at the end).
CoH has always tried to accommodate the soloist and small team player. You can see it by the past content. I dont think it is unreasonable for the playerbase, who has evolved with such a variety of playstyles, to expect the devs to explore and produce Incarnate systems for those types of players, as well as those who enjoy running trials. -
The Specialists are a late night roleplaying supergroup. The Specialists are a band of heroes who are dedicated in hunting down highly dangerous superpowered fugitives who have escaped from the Ziggurat. Each hero within the group has their own particular field of expertise. Individually, the heroes are formidable; together, with their wide range of specialized fields, there is nothing they cannot tackle. Our inspiration comes from shows and movies like the A-Team, The Fugitive and Mission: Impossible.
We do not strive to be a large SG, in fact we intentionally stay small in order to weave quality long lasting evolving stories and roleplay that only a small group can achieve. Because we want stories to enrich our experience in the game, our recruiting methods are much more stringent and lengthy than most other SGs.
If you are interested, we expect the following things:
- Late Night Players: This SG was specifically built for players who play during later hours. Late night is defined as 9pm-12am pacific standard time. We will only accept members who can consistently and regularly login during those hours because all our events and SG activity will take place during that time.
- Roleplayers: The Specialists are a medium to heavy roleplay group which means we strive to stay in character at all times. We do have an OOC channel but members are expected to remain IC in other public channels.
- Adults: You must be 18 years old or older. No exceptions. In addition, characters must also be adults. We will only recruit players who are adults in age and maturity.
- Writers: We do not expect you to write novels for your characters but every member is expected to write so roleplay can be expanded.
- Main Characters: We only accept main characters and no alts. There is an exception though. You may have mains on other SGs during other hours. Thats not a problem. As long as you understand that The Specialists expect you to prioritize the SG over other SGs during our regular playtimes, then there is no conflict. If you cant commit to the SG then we are not the SG for you.
- Hero Characters: Characters are expected to have a high moral standard. They will strive to do what is right. That doesnt mean everyone is a perfect model citizen but when lines are crossed (which should be exceptions rather than the norm), the hero should consider it very serious and deal with possible repercussions. This will not be a vigilante group.
- No Demigods or the Like: Our group plans to stay somewhat grounded with our powers. Thats not to say we wont be powerful but we will not accept characters whose powers tend to be over the top or characters that are too outrageous or does not fit the lore. We will not accept demigods/demons/cat-girl vampires etc.
If you are interested, please visit our website (still under construction but functional) for more information.
http://specialists.guildportal.com
Also you can contact me if you have any further questions. I normally login as Battlehawk. My global is @Spectral Hunter. - Late Night Players: This SG was specifically built for players who play during later hours. Late night is defined as 9pm-12am pacific standard time. We will only accept members who can consistently and regularly login during those hours because all our events and SG activity will take place during that time.
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Still looking for those who are interested in a SG like this.
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I've decided to take the advice of everyone here and will focus on my scrapper. I guess it's appropriate since he was my main way back when. I will endeavor to make him powerful once again (or close to it) before the Great Regen Nerf. I should say nerfs because it didn't stop at one time...
If you have any more advice to a returning player, please let me know.
Once again, thanks all. -
Thank you all for the advice so far. No one likes nrg/nrg blasters, eh?
I have been looking over guides and tinkered with Mids. I suppose I could use a new build but id rather just create a new character then with all new powersets.