Things As A New Player...
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-07-11 24:07 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I agree completely about the resolution and graphics part. That should be a setting that you choose the first time the game is launched, before character creation begins.
I'm not too worried about the mouse inversion because I prefer it that way.
I do think that there should be at least some cape options in from the beginning for new players. Back in 2004 when there were no other Super Hero MMO's (and this one hadn't worked out the tech for capes to function properly at launch) it was okay to have to wait a while. These days, when someone logs in to make their brand new super hero and can't give them a cape... it's just embarrassing. At least let new players have the plain cape with no patterns - or minimal options for patterns.
Of course, with Freedom coming out I know that they can (probably?) buy access to capes right away and that's cool. I still think it might be good to give everyone at least a basic cape option right from the start, especially if they are going with a VIP account.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
I remember when I first started playing, I wished the tutorial helped with the chat box. I was very confused about how to send tells, completely unaware of the difference between broadcast/local/team, etc. I thankfully had an irl friend who got me into the game and helped me set up my graphics and show me basic things, I'm very glad I had that because if I didn't I would have been totally lost.
Also, before I got used to all the maps I used to struggle very badly with finding glowies and destructible objects... I think the map should show everything at all times. The only people it's hurting is new players, as experienced players usually know instinctively where everything is anyways.
To this day I'm still annoyed about having to hold down the right mouse button every time I attack to avoid the camera spinning around and trying to give me a seizure.
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1. The defaults for the turn/strafe actions are backwards, compared to conventional game layout. Basic game control conventions exist for a reason; going for a counterintuitive setup doesn't make your game look cool - it makes your game look like it was made by idiots.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
What things might/did bother you as a new player?
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2. Most options have to be toggled individually for every single character you make. Really, Paragon/NCSoft? In a game that prides itself in its ability to induce altitis?
3. Hit-and-miss power documentation. Many of the plain-language descriptors on the various powers do diddly towards explaining what that power does. I often have to dig into the detailed info to figure out how to use a new ability, which in turn required me to update my glossary of terms via info from other players on the forums. And nothing in-game gives you any clue about when you can expect access to a given power, outside of the pool powers.
I have to come at this from two separate vantage points: How I felt as a new player joining up just prior to the launch of Issue 10, and how I might feel if I was joining up as a new player today.
"Back in my day..."
- Capes- I actually did not notice the lack of cape options at character creation until I got into the game and saw so many people with a cape. I was disappointed to learn that I would not be able to get a cape until level 20, but after running the mission and learning the in-game justification, I understood. The same goes for auras, but those were less of an issue for me. Capes are more genre-defining in my eyes.
- Travel Powers- This was a big one for me. More than anything else, I wanted to log in and take to the skies, and I was devastated to learn that I would have to jog everywhere for the first 14 levels. The Raptor Pack I got at level 6 was a nice satiation though.
- People- Pinnacle was quieter then than it is now, but I was still approached by several people offering me spots on teams and/or Super Groups. In fact I remain good friends with the two people that sort of "took me under their wings" throughout my early playing days, and were extremely helpful in explaining the finer points of enhancements, respecs, and many other in-game mechanics, the complexity of which can get taken for granted once you know how they work.
Nowadays...
- Capes- This would still bug me. But with the current speed at which a character can burn through levels 1-20, I feel that by the time I realized when I would have access to a cape, the goal would not seem that far off.
- Travel Powers- Same deal as the former, I would still be annoyed that I couldn't zone in and take off. Though again, the lower levels fly by nowadays, and with Hover's speed now being tolerable, along with jet packs available from many other avenues, I may not notice it as much.
- People- This is where it would vary. With the end game still being so new, I do not see many 50s hanging around the lower level zones, willing to help out new people who may be confused. True enough, Issue 21 is bringing a slew of good reasons for vets to role new toons and team with new people (including, but not limited to: the new tutorial, ATs going to opposite factions at level 1, lots of new power proliferation and new power sets). However, it is also bringing a new Incarnate trial, new badge opportunities with First Ward, and possibly more for upper-level characters. Nevermind the fact that a new player will log in and have limited means of communication, but simply not seeing any obvious veteran player characters, waiting to offer some help, might be a turn off. But unfortunately, this is solely on us (the players). And I'm not condemning anyone, I am guilty of it myself, but once this launches, making your self available to help new players may be beneficial to the overall game's population.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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true and I remember it was like that for me when I first started also, but keep in mind that a brand new player only has access to limited chat anyway. A whole 2 channels I believe, so shouldnt be THAT hard to figure out LOL|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I remember when I first started playing, I wished the tutorial helped with the chat box.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Also, before I got used to all the maps I used to struggle very badly with finding glowies and destructible objects... I think the map should show everything at all times. The only people it's hurting is new players, as experienced players usually know instinctively where everything is anyways.
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Excellent and interesting replies, so far!
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Not to suggest that this is a bad suggestion at all, but just in case you don't know (and so this may help you from now on), you can save your settings as "default" and then all characters made after that will start with those settings.|
Originally Posted by Black Zot
2. Most options have to be toggled individually for every single character you make. Really, Paragon/NCSoft? In a game that prides itself in its ability to induce altitis? |
I know, it took me a while and many alts before I did this myself!!
I can't quite remember where and how this is done in the options window off hand, but I think it is pretty simple, once you find it and know to do it.
@Zethustra
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and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Totally agree on the backward controls (mouse and turn/strafe) but a little late to change them now I'd think.
My biggest beef back when I was brand new was the total lack of consistency in the enhancement names/titles. Stun/Disorient is just the most obvious example. Many of them have different wording going from the enhancement screen to the training stores. In my opinion they should be identical even if they all seem extremely obvious to me NOW I still remember when they weren't at all obvious.
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As a Vet, I have access the the "Reveal" Vet Reward. I rarely, almost never use it. "Why?", you ask?|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Also, before I got used to all the maps I used to struggle very badly with finding glowies and destructible objects... I think the map should show everything at all times. The only people it's hurting is new players, as experienced players usually know instinctively where everything is anyways.
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Because if it isn't revealed on the map, I haven't been there yet. It's how I keep track of places I need to go bacl and check. Generally, I kinda compulsively clear all the areas of the map so that I can make sure I didn't miss anything.
I guess I don't really see why there was such trouble with glowies and destructible objects, since they make an audible sound as you get near them, as well as flashing and glowing. The other MMO I occasionally play only has the visual cues (glowing, flashing faintly, sparkles above ther target, etc.) and I really miss the audible cues.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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WASD for movement with Q/E for turning? How is that counter-intuitive?|
Originally Posted by Black Zot
1. The defaults for the turn/strafe actions are backwards, compared to conventional game layout. Basic game control conventions exist for a reason; going for a counterintuitive setup doesn't make your game look cool - it makes your game look like it was made by idiots.
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| 2. Most options have to be toggled individually for every single character you make. Really, Paragon/NCSoft? In a game that prides itself in its ability to induce altitis? |
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| 3. Hit-and-miss power documentation. Many of the plain-language descriptors on the various powers do diddly towards explaining what that power does. I often have to dig into the detailed info to figure out how to use a new ability, which in turn required me to update my glossary of terms via info from other players on the forums. And nothing in-game gives you any clue about when you can expect access to a given power, outside of the pool powers. |
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I think the mouse inversion thing is because they assume everyone wants to fly. Those are flight sim controls that are backwards if you're running around.
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OMG YES! This is SOOO annoying! Especially for someone like me, who maintains it on multiple computers. Every time you install/reinstall, you have to go from the 800x600 default to the real resolution. Which totally screws up the window locations on an existing character (once you finally get back into the game at the real resolution).|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Why can't I set the resolution and graphics before starting the game?
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Why oh why is the default mouse control the opposite (at least for what I'd expect)?
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I can't quite remember where and how this is done in the options window off hand, but I think it is pretty simple, once you find it and know to do it.
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--NT
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Found that very unnerving when I was still playing another MMO. Whenever I switched form one game to the other I spend a few minutes just remembering how to use the mouse without running into every wall.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Why oh why is the default mouse control the opposite (at least for what I'd expect)? While it is rather simple to go in and change this setting, I really am surprised at the default setting... and even the simplest of things can be a turn-off. Of course, I may be alone in thinking the default mouse setting is inverted (as opposed to what they call "inverted"). Not a huge deal, just one thing that I personally found very odd.
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@Redcap
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Indeed. Pretty much every free-range 3D game I've played since 1996 has used WASD for moving and the mouse for turning/looking around, at least games that gave you movement controls to begin with and didn't just rely on Click to Move.|
Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
WASD for movement with Q/E for turning? How is that counter-intuitive?
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I think what's HORRIBLY designed from a new player's perspective is that the map is docked to the Nav window, which defaults to the centre of the screen, so if you open the map, you don't see where you're going. Considering this is sold as a "mini" map, I feel it needs to default to one of the corners of the interface, such that you can easily have it open AND see where you're going so you're navigating by the map as you see the real world. Of course, you can move it there yourself, but it takes time new people even realise this.
Also, I feel that more explanation needs to be given on what the different map markers mean, especially train stations and ferries. When I was first given a mission in Kings Row, my first question was "What's a Kings Row and where in Galaxy City is that?" Luckily, my team-mates informed me.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Of course, we shouldn't forget the good old days when a certain lead designer very much worked on the philosophy that it's not rewarding unless it takes you 45 minutes to figure out how to do it 
Compared to 7 years ago, this game is extremely user-friendly.
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Have to say as someone thats just returned after a year and a bit I am finding it all very confusing! |
Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
Compared to 7 years ago, this game is extremely user-friendly.
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This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
AT/powerset description in the character creation screen.
Many of them are awkwardly written, unhelpful or misleading, and it's really obvious that the person who wrote them never played the powersets in question. For example the description for Mind Control says its powers are "extremely accurate", implying they have higher ToHit than normal (they don't) when it's presumably referring to the nonpositional nature of its powers. Others are just factually wrong, e.g. "[scrapper's] aptitude for melee is countered by a total lack of long distance attacks." The description for Kheldians actually still implies they have lower than normal resistances.
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I think this is a hold-over from various FPS games (especially console games). I seem to recall that a few N64 games used a similar setup. It makes a lot more sense with a Joystick than a Mouse though.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Why oh why is the default mouse control the opposite (at least for what I'd expect)? While it is rather simple to go in and change this setting, I really am surprised at the default setting... and even the simplest of things can be a turn-off. Of course, I may be alone in thinking the default mouse setting is inverted (as opposed to what they call "inverted"). Not a huge deal, just one thing that I personally found very odd.
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Originally Posted by Black Zot
1. The defaults for the turn/strafe actions are backwards, compared to conventional game layout. Basic game control conventions exist for a reason; going for a counterintuitive setup doesn't make your game look cool - it makes your game look like it was made by idiots.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I'd disagree on that, most FPS games I've played default to A and D for strafing. It does differ from the convention used in a certain other major MMO but then CoH predates that MMO so it can be excused for not copying.
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| FPS games |
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City of Heroes is not a FPS but the control scheme and interface is heavily influenced by them (as is true for most games with an "over the shoulder camera"). This isn't really to surprising since when CoH was released the MMO genre was still pretty new and a lot of the standard conventions had not really become "standard".|
Originally Posted by Black Zot
Therein lies the problem. On everything BUT FPS games, the standard is A/D for turning, Q/E for strafing if strafing is an available command. CoH is not a FPS, and if it ever starts to behave like one, I'm quitting.
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How many games can you list that were released before CoH and used that control scheme? Looking at the most well known pre-CoH MMOs Ultima Online was Isometric used the mouse for movement (I think), Everquest did not have a default WASD control setup at all and for Asheron's Call I cannot find the default control list online so I have no clue.
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One of my char's is a FF. I can't hear the natural hum of glowies on that character.|
Originally Posted by Ad Astra
As a Vet, I have access the the "Reveal" Vet Reward. I rarely, almost never use it. "Why?", you ask?
Because if it isn't revealed on the map, I haven't been there yet. It's how I keep track of places I need to go bacl and check. Generally, I kinda compulsively clear all the areas of the map so that I can make sure I didn't miss anything. I guess I don't really see why there was such trouble with glowies and destructible objects, since they make an audible sound as you get near them, as well as flashing and glowing. The other MMO I occasionally play only has the visual cues (glowing, flashing faintly, sparkles above ther target, etc.) and I really miss the audible cues. |
'Hollow' glowies [planting bombs] have a softer noise. Also, the worst map I've encountered them on was that Sharkhead outdoor map, which there's just too much junk littering the screen.
Some maps [Oranbega] are really really bad with hidden glowie spawn spots.
Let's Dance!
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Err... I cannot think of ANY games off the top of my head, where A and D were for turning. I've heard but not seen it in person that WoW uses that layout, but beyond that, I could never tell you. Is this like a holdover from the old days where third person 3D games didn't have strafing at all, or at best had it as some kind of slow sidestep like in Tomb Raider? Because back in those days, these games defaulted to using the arrow keys to move, not WASD, and they didn't tend to use the mouse at all.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
How many games can you list that were released before CoH and used that control scheme? Looking at the most well known pre-CoH MMOs Ultima Online was Isometric used the mouse for movement (I think), Everquest did not have a default WASD control setup at all and for Asheron's Call I cannot find the default control list online so I have no clue.
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The first game I ever played where I HAD to use WASD was Bungie's Oni, because the game's interface didn't allow for button remapping unless I wanted to hand-edit an INI file. Since then, any game which gave me either strafing controls or free 3D movement defaulted to WASD. Games like the Sands of Time Trilogy from a while ago, games like Darksiders recently, any "over the shoulder" shooter that ever got ported from a console, the old MDK games, I believe. As a point of fact, I don't recall having played a 3D game with mouse look in which keyboard turning was even relevant, aside from maybe Shadowgrounds, and even that defaulted camera turning to Q and E.
What games have I not played that set the reverse as a standard?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I never understood WASD as you are cramped up in corner of the keyboard. But then I've never been too conventional. As long as I'm not forced to use the horrible WASD, I'm happy.
Which was the only drawback to Halo 2. Forced me to use that terrible set-up.
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Apparently the same ones that I haven't played |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
What games have I not played that set the reverse as a standard?
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I was thinking about my own answers to this notion and was curious what others around here might come up with...
Things with the game, UI, etc. that may be a turn-off, problem or just seem odd (in a bad way) as a new player coming into the game...
(the following are just my opinions and none of this is aimed to be a rant of negativity... more so just some thoughts about how we might think the new player experience could be fixed up a bit in order to help make 'em happy and positive and stick around!)
So, as a new player starting things up...
None of this is doom and gloom, however, I could see some of them being obstacles in the way of new players giving the game a fair chance (As petty as it may seem, initial bumps in the road -no matter how simple to overcome- can spell the end of any hope for winning a person over).
Obviously, this game is much greater than any of these potential quirks, so I'd love to see some of the obvious things addressed to better satisfy the new players we hope will be coming!
What things might/did bother you as a new player?
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan