NPR Top 100 Science Fiction/Fantasy Books
By
all_hell,
Posted on: 2011-08-03 05:39 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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This. Also, I couldn't stand Man in the High Castle.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
You ask me to list the most influential authors in Science Fiction and PKD is on my list. But this was about individual works except in a few cases (series like Xanth, related works like Manifold) and no one particular PKD work stands out enough as among the most important or best works on most people's lists, including mine.
Collectively, PKD has probably influenced science fiction as much as people like Asimov, and more than even people like Heinlein. But that was by being prolific, unique, and insane. Unlike most of the greats and even the pretty-goods, PKD doesn't have a signature work or set of works. He has a signature style. It also doesn't help that his most well known works tend to be his short stories and not his novels, and most contemporary exposure to PKD are either his movie translations or compilation works. |
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Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
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I never got the popularity of PKD. Maybe because I was force to read a boat load of his short stories in my College SciFi class. I like my SciFi a little more upbeat. Hollywood likes his stuff. Well at least the title and maybe a vague ultra cliffsnote outline of the premise of the work whose title they liked.
I little disappointed by the lack of Heinlein. I am glad that at least a few of the masters are represented.
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Yes, the Legend of Drizzt made it into the top 100 
------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------
You know, as much of a fan of the book as I am, I'm incredibly surprised that The Way of Kings managed to make #71 on that list. Also, the complete and utter lack of anything by Octavia Butler on that list makes me sad.
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It wasn't as close I'd hope to my votes, but all things considered nothing on the list really bothered me until the 20s. Really probably not a bad process for putting something like this together.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
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Now, how was HG Wells was relegated to the late 30s?... and Conan in the 60s? And it is clear to me that not enough people have read Ian M. Banks or Steven Brust.
Still, like I said. Nice list. Now, if you'll excuse me I have a web wish list to go update...
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
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I think a lot of people reason this way, and that it is exactly the reason why this sort of lists always look like this. Going by another forum I frequent (one about books) there aren't that many people who think 1984 and fahrenheit are their top 10 of books they enjoyed the most. But they always tend to end up in the top 10 they voted for anyway because of the 'historical importance' of those books.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I had ultimately voted for LotR, Hitchhikers, Ender's Game, 1984, Fahrenheit, Foundation, Brave New World, and American Gods. My other two votes were for World War Z and Watchmen.
I have to admit, my voting wasn't "clean." Its not what I think the absolute best top ten are, especially because I didn't have good criteria for that anyway. I felt that LotR, Hitchhikers, Ender's Game, and Foundation should be on there as among the most important, period. I felt 1984, Fahrenheit, and Brave New World were historically strong and influential. I then added American Gods and World War Z as contemporary representation and to represent some of my own personal preferences, and Watchmen as my strongest comic book medium work. It was a close call against the entire Sandman series in total, but I felt Gaiman was already represented in American Gods. |
Not that there's anything wrong with that, people should vote as they see fit. It's just something I noticed.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
It was an odd list, it didn't have a lot of authors best work in it, Bank's "the algerbrist" but not "Excession"? Atwoods the handmaidens Tale but not the blind assassin? (both have speculative fiction elements) it was weird when they then included people like Robin Hobb, who is fine but has a terrible procrastination style of writing where she dawdles for 2 books then crams most of the story in to the third book. Also what the Hell is Dan Abnett doing near any list that isn't "biggest hacks in the known world" but not put Victor Pelevin in the running.
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What, three nods in the top 100 isn't enough?|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
I little disappointed by the lack of Heinlein. I am glad that at least a few of the masters are represented. |
That's as many as Asimov got, and as many as Arthur C. Clarke got.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade! I still say it should be one book by each author. That would be a more representative list. Also that SF and Fantasy should be separated.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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You know, this is an actual thing in voting, which is why there's so much back-room maneuvering to get ballots laid out so that a certain candidate's name is on the top of the list. People tend to chose the item at the top of the list rather than at the bottom. So if you're running for office, change your name to Alan Armstrong to always get voted in.
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Originally Posted by Smersh
My "vote up to letter F" strategy netted me three in the top ten: Ender's Game, Dune, and Foundation.
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Regardless of the order, this is a good reading list.
Global name: @k26dp
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I am keenly aware of this.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
You know, this is an actual thing in voting, which is why there's so much back-room maneuvering to get ballots laid out so that a certain candidate's name is on the top of the list. People tend to chose the item at the top of the list rather than at the bottom. So if you're running for office, change your name to Alan Armstrong to always get voted in.
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I also just didn't have enough vote to vote for everything I felt was deserving.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
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Well, although the poll said "vote your top ten favorite" it claimed to be aiming for a top 100 best science fiction ever written, and so I decided to vote based on different criteria for "best" and "historical importance" is an important consideration: the degree to which the works were inspiration or influence on science fiction as a whole. I think there's no question that Brave New World, 1984, and Fahrenheit (in about that order) were extremely influential works, whether they were anyone's particular "favorite" especially in contemporary times.|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
I think a lot of people reason this way, and that it is exactly the reason why this sort of lists always look like this. Going by another forum I frequent (one about books) there aren't that many people who think 1984 and fahrenheit are their top 10 of books they enjoyed the most. But they always tend to end up in the top 10 they voted for anyway because of the 'historical importance' of those books.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, people should vote as they see fit. It's just something I noticed. |
If the poll was clearly aiming for top 100 most entertaining, most engaging, or most popular works and they asked me to pick my personal favorites in that context, those three would have dropped off my list, and probably the entire list.
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I'm just wondering out loud if a lot of people did this, hence American Gods being in the top 10. I haven't read it, so I'm not judging its worthiness, I'm just curious.
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Originally Posted by Smersh
I am keenly aware of this.
I also just didn't have enough vote to vote for everything I felt was deserving. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Fully a third of the titles that made the top 100 start with the letters A-F. I think you may be correct.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
I'm just wondering out loud if a lot of people did this, hence American Gods being in the top 10. I haven't read it, so I'm not judging its worthiness, I'm just curious.
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Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
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I was only looking at the top 10.
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Originally Posted by Smersh
What, three nods in the top 100 isn't enough?
That's as many as Asimov got, and as many as Arthur C. Clarke got. |
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$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
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Quote:
Well, I thought American Gods was worth being up there somewhere, but as to your theory:|
Originally Posted by Ironik
I'm just wondering out loud if a lot of people did this, hence American Gods being in the top 10. I haven't read it, so I'm not judging its worthiness, I'm just curious.
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That's the average alpha order of the top X elements of the list. I.e. X=10 represents the average alpha order of the top 10 elements of the list. Notice that the average placement of the entries actually drops fast until you reach the top ten, and then jumps back up and slowly levels off. But note the red line: that is what the actual average should be if the picks were randomly distributed in the alpha order: there were 237 entries, so the average should always be about 118.5. It almost never actually get's there.
And if it wasn't for a few early entires that absolutely were lock-ins for being near the top - I'm thinking of the Lord of the Rings (123), Hitchhiker's (93), and Foundation (80) - and one contemporary one that has gotten a lot of recent press Song of Ice and Fire (191) it would have been even worse.
Perhaps the bias goes even deeper, and includes even the process whereby the original candidates were selected. But entry 118, just above the average spot alphabetically, was The Lies of Locke Lamora. That's slightly higher in the alphabet than the exact center (the M/N border) but not that drastic. So it really does seem there was a skew towards people picking towards the top of the list.
Intriguingly, the lowest point of the averages was literally the top ten: the top ten averaged 71.4, 47 places lower than the average. I'd say that was statistically significant.
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It was bound to happen like this because people vote for what they know. And they vote for things that were in their mind recently.
What I would like to see is a top 100 you never heard of. Not literally never heard of since that would mean nobody could vote except randomly. But have a top 100 list that eliminates all the masters (Heinlein, Asimov, Bradbury) and anything that has been adapted in some way or another into popular culture (Watchmen, Hobbit, Sword of Truth).
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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It's weird how people do that, isn't it? Seems like every time this sort of poll is taken, the top bunch get overly represented. Not a big deal in things like this, but a huge deal when electing government representatives|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
So it really does seem there was a skew towards people picking towards the top of the list.
Intriguingly, the lowest point of the averages was literally the top ten: the top ten averaged 71.4, 47 places lower than the average. I'd say that was statistically significant. |
Have you read Proofiness: The Dark Arts of Mathematical Deception by Charles Seife? The first half is a terrific rant/screed about misusing math in general. The second part is mostly about the Minnesota elections that he was part of. Right up your alley, I'd think.
In everyday life I've been using one of the tactics employed by Senator McCarthy during the Communist witch hunts, namely using a specific number to bolster an argument, because people respond positively to a specific number ("205 Communists in the State Department") and dismiss a rounded-off number ("about 200 Communists"). And it freaking works, even when I'm just making stuff up.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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So comprised entirely of non-famous works or non-bestsellers? That would be interesting.
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Originally Posted by Mandu
It was bound to happen like this because people vote for what they know. And they vote for things that were in their mind recently.
What I would like to see is a top 100 you never heard of. Not literally never heard of since that would mean nobody could vote except randomly. But have a top 100 list that eliminates all the masters (Heinlein, Asimov, Bradbury) and anything that has been adapted in some way or another into popular culture (Watchmen, Hobbit, Sword of Truth). |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
as an addendum to this activity and discussion, NPR has posted a flowchart utilizing the 100 voted books "...designed to help you follow your tastes, provide context, and fulfill (indeed exceed!) any need for pithy commentary you might harbor."
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
My favorite bit from the flowchart: "Like a little time travel with your love story?" -> NO -> Tough. Choices? The Outlander Series or The Time Traveler's Wife.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
"Enjoy stories of orphaned farm boys?" ---> No ---> "Tough"
I laughed.
I liked the Ideal pet --> bunny --> Watership Down.
------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------
EDIT: Oh come now, PKD couldn't even crack the top twenty? What is wrong with the world today? (Apart from being, you know, being under the control of the Black Iron Prison.)
Collectively, PKD has probably influenced science fiction as much as people like Asimov, and more than even people like Heinlein. But that was by being prolific, unique, and insane. Unlike most of the greats and even the pretty-goods, PKD doesn't have a signature work or set of works. He has a signature style. It also doesn't help that his most well known works tend to be his short stories and not his novels, and most contemporary exposure to PKD are either his movie translations or compilation works.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)