And the new Ulitmate Spider-Man is...
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-08-02 07:20 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
I really don't think it was as nefarious and calculated as all that. I mean, this isn't the abomination of One More Day.
The Ultimate universe is really starting to get hardcore about the superhero business. Originally it was just a simple reboot of Spider-man, which I thought was, well, amazing. Ultimate Fantastic Four started off great, too. But once they let people like Millar and Card into the sandbox and didn't exercise firm editorial control over them, things went awry and it got out of hand. (Card's Ultimate Iron Man has already been retconned within the Ultimate universe itself as having just been the Iron Man movie of that world, not a sign of support.) Ultimatum, with its world-killing tsunami that wiped out tons of characters, was really out there in terms of a game-changer. I mean, they killed off Wolverine. That's huge for Marvel.
I think Bendis is telling the truth when he says that he was persuaded by the whole internet thing promoting Donald Glover as the next Spider-man and that a black friend of his told him the only hero his friends would let him play was Spider-man because no one could see his skin color. To me, "white" isn't an absolute criterion for being Spider-man. The most important traits of the character have nothing to do with his ethnicity.
And again, Ultimate is an alternate universe. Regular Spidey is still fine. I think they should take such chances, because that's what an alternate universe is for.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Of course not. Being Peter Parker is! |
Originally Posted by Ironik
I really don't think it was as nefarious and calculated as all that. I mean, this isn't the abomination of One More Day.
The Ultimate universe is really starting to get hardcore about the superhero business. Originally it was just a simple reboot of Spider-man, which I thought was, well, amazing. Ultimate Fantastic Four started off great, too. But once they let people like Millar and Card into the sandbox and didn't exercise firm editorial control over them, things went awry and it got out of hand. (Card's Ultimate Iron Man has already been retconned within the Ultimate universe itself as having just been the Iron Man movie of that world, not a sign of support.) Ultimatum, with its world-killing tsunami that wiped out tons of characters, was really out there in terms of a game-changer. I mean, they killed off Wolverine. That's huge for Marvel. I think Bendis is telling the truth when he says that he was persuaded by the whole internet thing promoting Donald Glover as the next Spider-man and that a black friend of his told him the only hero his friends would let him play was Spider-man because no one could see his skin color. To me, "white" isn't an absolute criterion for being Spider-man. The most important traits of the character have nothing to do with his ethnicity. And again, Ultimate is an alternate universe. Regular Spidey is still fine. I think they should take such chances, because that's what an alternate universe is for. |
Like Spider-Man 2099 is Miguel O'Hara! Come to think of it, why didn't they just use Miguel for the new Ultimate Spider-Man? It's the ultimate universe, so he could be there at a different point in time.
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Agreed. I had cancelled this comic once I knew they were planning on killing Peter. I hate "Death-of" comics. They are all awful.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
It's a bummer that they killed Peter, because USM was really the only good Ultimate comic outside of a few isolated UFF and the brilliant Galactus storyline. But on the other hand, the line has become so stupid that it needed a reboot. And what better way to signal that everything is up for grabs than by killing off the star?
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Not bothered by race changes though.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
dont know if this has been mentioned but they are playing up this new half black/half hispanic to diversify more to a wider audience. He is also homosexual to appeal to the gay crowd. My opinion, while I dont have anything against black or hispanic or homosexuals, spider man is peter parker and if its not peter parker then its not spider man. some things you just dont mess with and Marvel should know that, ruined one of my all time favorite super hero characters with this crap. should of just made a new super hero if they wanted to appear more cultured and named him gay dude or spider dude or anything but dont screw with spiderman.
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I agree with you. I didn't really have an issue with the Batwoman thing though. She was new and created that way, they didn't steal it from someone else.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Well I know I do, and I know I don't care for the change. Because it's a change being made for these exact reasons.
The reason was exactly this... "They say we have to many white heroes. Well lets make one of color. Can't make it new though, it may never last. Well, let's kill off one of the popular ones, replace him, and give him name a hero name people will recognize, see if that changes anything." I don't see a problem with the changes. With the change to Nick Fury in the ultimate universe, I didn't get this feeling at all. With this change, it feels like it was done for other reasons. Just feels kinda like Batwoman being gay. It didn't seem like they did it for any real character reasons. It felt like a "lets be edgy" and "this will give it so much more hype" reasons. Never got that feeling from Northstar in Marvel. Could just be how the news is relaying it, and with the more recent "more diversity in comic books/comic book publishing" that happened it all seems to be going hand in hand. |
Peter Parker is Spider-Man, not this new guy. People hated it when they made Spider-Man into Ben Reilly, and he was a white guy.
I've heard others pointing to Batman being replaced by Nightwing and Captain America being replaced by Bucky and there wasn't much of an uproar. The thing is, the deaths of Bruce Wayne and Steve Rogers were *wink wink nudge nudge* affairs where everyone knew they would be back eventually.
And I mean, really, the previous poster (not quoted above) saying people only want Grand Wizard superheroes, I mean, that's about as immature as you can get.
Learn modesty, if you desire knowledge. A highland would never be irrigated by river." (Kanz ol-Haghayegh)
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True with the Batwoman. She qas created that way. I meant it more as I got the feeling she was created that way to hype it up more than anything else.|
Originally Posted by The_Dude73
I agree with you. I didn't really have an issue with the Batwoman thing though. She was new and created that way, they didn't steal it from someone else.
Peter Parker is Spider-Man, not this new guy. People hated it when they made Spider-Man into Ben Reilly, and he was a white guy. I've heard others pointing to Batman being replaced by Nightwing and Captain America being replaced by Bucky and there wasn't much of an uproar. The thing is, the deaths of Bruce Wayne and Steve Rogers were *wink wink nudge nudge* affairs where everyone knew they would be back eventually. And I mean, really, the previous poster (not quoted above) saying people only want Grand Wizard superheroes, I mean, that's about as immature as you can get. |
IE...let's do this to be edgy, and get major hype. I could be wrong on it of course (I dont deny that) and it may have just been the media who gave it that feeling.
Spider-Man change feels exactly like all the changes are EXACTLY for these reasons though.
Now let's assume it's done to diversify, I don't see why the couldn't create a new character. With this route it feels exactly like they're saying making their own original hero like this wouldn't sell without name recognition.
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He's not gay. Yet. All they said was "maybe in the future."|
Originally Posted by darkangel32
dont know if this has been mentioned but they are playing up this new half black/half hispanic to diversify more to a wider audience. He is also homosexual to appeal to the gay crowd. My opinion, while I dont have anything against black or hispanic or homosexuals, spider man is peter parker and if its not peter parker then its not spider man. some things you just dont mess with and Marvel should know that, ruined one of my all time favorite super hero characters with this crap. should of just made a new super hero if they wanted to appear more cultured and named him gay dude or spider dude or anything but dont screw with spiderman.
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I really don't see the problem, and I simply don't buy that an alternate-universe Spider-man has to be Peter Parker. He hasn't even been Peter Parker the whole time in Marvel's regular universe.
Since sales of USM dropped off Marvel's top 10 (maybe even off their top 25), most people weren't following it as much as they once were. Selling 25k copies of each issue is a far cry from the 150k it was moving. Maybe it is from desperation that they're doing this, but so what? It's INTERESTING. Which should be the whole point. If people really must insist that Spidey be white, go read one of the other nine books he appears in where he's still caucasian. Ignore the one in the alternate universe where he isn't.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
***Spoilers Below***
I like that they gave him completely different powers.
Super Speed
Electric Touch
Invisibility
http://blastr.com/2011/08/spoiler-have-the-new-spid.php
So, does anyone know how he got his powers?
Or what compells him to put on a Spider-Man costume? Especially when he knows what happened to the last one.
If he had (almost) the same powers maybe I could understand why, but as it is... Electric Melee, seriously?
@Redcap
ANARCHY = A Society that does not need government
114. Ahrouns do not appreciate my particular brand of humour, so I should stop bleaching bulls-eyes in their fur.
I don't get all the knee-jerk reaction.
So they made Spider-Man, not even the real Spider-Man but one of a completely different continuity, half black/half hispanic. BIG DEAL! Blaming this on affirmative action just makes you look ridiculous.
In my opinion, creating an alternate Spidey (such as Crimson Spider, or SpiderBoy) would just be lip service to diversity. You might as well say minorities are only good enough as spin-offs or side-kicks. I think this was a great decision, and it took some guts to do it. I'm just sorry to see the reaction to it taking place on our forums. I figured that was one thing we'd be better than.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
Some people, ignorant people, got wind of the rumor he might be gay also and was like "why are they putting all the minorities in one characters" as if it wasn't an ignorant thing to say and gay black/mexicans don't need a role model.
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And if you support it you may as well be saying minorities are only good as stand-ins. |
Originally Posted by Rylas
In my opinion, creating an alternate Spidey (such as Crimson Spider, or SpiderBoy) would just be lip service to diversity. You might as well say minorities are only good enough as spin-offs or side-kicks.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
And if you support it you may as well be saying minorities are only good as stand-ins.
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My thoughts exactly.
I would have prefered to see the same character in a completely new and innovative role rather than just assuming the identity of a long time favorite. If we are going to bring minorities to the forefront in comics, it should be on their own merits, not force those characters to retread old ground as a "replacement".
Everything about this stinks.
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Funny thing, I couldn´t care less had Marvel done this to Earth-616 Spidey... but why go and totally change the one Ultimate title I really like?|
Originally Posted by Rylas
not even the real Spider-Man but one of a completely different continuity
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Well, nothing I can do about it. Just hope the new Ultimate X-Men will be good. They have an interesting line up so far.
And Spider-Man... I still say he´ll most likely bite the dust within a year and Parker returns.
@Redcap
ANARCHY = A Society that does not need government
114. Ahrouns do not appreciate my particular brand of humour, so I should stop bleaching bulls-eyes in their fur.
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Originally Posted by Antigonus
My thoughts exactly.
I would have prefered to see the same character in a completely new and innovative role rather than just assuming the identity of a long time favorite. If we are going to bring minorities to the forefront in comics, it should be on their own merits, not force those characters to retread old ground as a "replacement". Everything about this stinks. |
Because so many new comic book characters (especially those in long established DC and Marvel Universes) have such a high probability of becoming popular enough to stick around.
I understand changing some existing characters' race to help diversify the pool. They'd be in just as much hot water if the new character didn't draw enough sales and then discontinued it. Then people would would ask why they kill of or end all the minority characters.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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New innovative role competing for writing time with long time staples/sure things? He'd most likely just end up as a Falcon type z lister at that point why bother?|
Originally Posted by Antigonus
My thoughts exactly.
I would have prefered to see the same character in a completely new and innovative role rather than just assuming the identity of a long time favorite. If we are going to bring minorities to the forefront in comics, it should be on their own merits, not force those characters to retread old ground as a "replacement". Everything about this stinks. |
The only thing I'm not liking is the new costume, when he first appeared in ultimate fallout he had a ultimate-y version of the regular spiderman costume I fell like it should have gone more tactical/modern day/ultimate-y cool
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I think this is the issue for me versus his race. If you are replacing somebody like Captain America then it's more about the idea of the character then what the specific powers are. Spiderman's powers make up who he is.
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Originally Posted by Nos482
So, does anyone know how he got his powers?
Or what compells him to put on a Spider-Man costume? Especially when he knows what happened to the last one. If he had (almost) the same powers maybe I could understand why, but as it is... Electric Melee, seriously? |
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we don't know it's electric yet though and even so maybe ultimate SM is a Cap level symbol that transcends spider powers
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
I think this is the issue for me versus his race. If you are replacing somebody like Captain America then it's more about the idea of the character then what the specific powers are. Spiderman's powers make up who he is.
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Originally Posted by Cheetatron
New innovative role competing for writing time with long time staples/sure things? He'd most likely just end up as a Falcon type z lister at that point why bother?
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If the character is well written and interesting then they will get noticed and stick around. If they aren't, then they won't. Race, sex, religion, sexual preference and ,yes, history of the character are irrellavant to the quality of the writing. If they end up as a second stringer it will be because they were not written in a compelling enough way to earn star status. Inversely, many characters over the years that were second stringers for most of their history moved up to star status when a good writer that understood and loved the character took a swing for the fences.
There is absolutely no reason why a new character can't become a hit if they are given the chance. If they are never given the chance, it's a sure thing they will NEVER become a hit.
I would rather a new character be given the chance and fail on their own merits than just be forever remembered as the guy that took over for Spiderman for a year or two for the sake of diversity.
Just to give it another perspective, think of it this way: What if Barak Obama and Joe Biden had reversed roles, with Biden being elected President and Obama VP. Would we look at the historical significance of the election in the same way? If Biden were unable to fullfill his role as Pres and Obama had to take over, would it have had the same meaning historically? I think not.
Better to try and fail than always be the other guy.
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This. My thoughts on it weren't about race. It was about the reason for what they're doing is obvious.|
Originally Posted by Antigonus
My thoughts exactly.
I would have prefered to see the same character in a completely new and innovative role rather than just assuming the identity of a long time favorite. If we are going to bring minorities to the forefront in comics, it should be on their own merits, not force those characters to retread old ground as a "replacement". Everything about this stinks. |
Spawn, black hero, still around! Had a bad movie! Still around! Shadow Hawk was another, but I don't know if that failed due to the creator or sales. I know it was one of my favorite Image comics.
They're taking what could be a cool character and already saying, "We don't think we'll get any sales without name recognition."
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Agreed with the upper post.
Also, to add. In my opinion, some heroes are more the person under the mask than the costume. Spiderman IS Peter Parker. You can't change that. If you honestly really look at it, the concept of a hero with spider powers ( And even a few of them artificial ) is not the most grandest of ideas, but Peter made it sell, and made it work.
I would rather see this person with their own person, using Spider-Man as a driving influence rather than taking the name.
There are characters that "race" isn't part of their character, but I have to argue that Spider-Man, Peter Parker, would not work as anything other than a geeky white guy.
Captain America also would not work as a black guy simply because of his back story...
It the becomes a question of which characters could have their "Races" changed without it mattering...
Iron Man and Nick Fury (obviously)
Hulk could change races, the Thing for from Fantastic Four could.
Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman couldn't... Tim Drake however, regardless of how much I'd hate it, could as could Jason Todd, Hal Jordan, etc...
I think Hal Jordan as a character might even work better as being black.
And Iron Man might work better as being arabic
I don't have a problem so much with the new Spider-Man in terms of a character...what i have a problem with is that the supposed powers don't quite work right... and I really liked Ultimate Universe Peter Parker.
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Your Dad sounds awesome. I could talk to someone like that all day and continuously be amused.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
I doubt it. My dad doesn't even know who Mr. Spock is.
Actual conversation from last year: Me: "Like Han Solo said, ancient weapons are no substitute for a good blaster at your side." My dad: "I loved Man from U.N.C.L.E." Me: "What?" My dad: "Great show." Me: "What are you talking about, Capt. Non Sequitur?" My dad: "Han Solo, the guy from U.N.C.L.E. Or was it Mission: Impossible?" Me: "That was someone else. I was quoting Star Wars." My dad: "Napoleon Solo. Was Han related to him?" Me: "No, totally different guy. Harrison Ford, you know?" My dad: "Right. Who was the alien guy you used to watch in Mission: Impossible?" Me: "Mr. Spock?" My dad: "The baby doctor?" Me: "No Leonard Nimoy. Star Trek." My dad: "Not him." Me: "Commander Koenig from Space: 1999?" My dad: "That's the guy! Which one was Spock?" I'll bet you dollars to donuts Lou Dobbs has that exact same kind of conversation. |
People who are against this are being ridiculous. One person even went so far as to complain, "Why can't there be heroes for white kids to look up to?" Uh, maybe because 95% of superheroes are already white? Including Spider-man *still*. The funniest comment I've seen so far is on the NPR site where someone remarked, "Seems like the only superhero these people want is The Grand Wizard." (If you don't get that joke, type "Grand Wizard" into Wikipedia. Second entry.)
Do you really think Dobbs reads comic books? Do you suppose he even knew Peter Parker's name before the announcement? Do you think he cared one little bit about this before someone said that this is yet another example of how those mud races are taking over this great nation?
*I* read comic books. USM is actually one of the few that I buy. So I get more of a say in it than Dobbs does. And I'm fine with it.
The reason was exactly this...
"They say we have to many white heroes. Well lets make one of color. Can't make it new though, it may never last. Well, let's kill off one of the popular ones, replace him, and give him name a hero name people will recognize, see if that changes anything."
I don't see a problem with the changes. With the change to Nick Fury in the ultimate universe, I didn't get this feeling at all. With this change, it feels like it was done for other reasons.
Just feels kinda like Batwoman being gay. It didn't seem like they did it for any real character reasons. It felt like a "lets be edgy" and "this will give it so much more hype" reasons.
Never got that feeling from Northstar in Marvel.
Could just be how the news is relaying it, and with the more recent "more diversity in comic books/comic book publishing" that happened it all seems to be going hand in hand.
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