Epic Encounters!

Ok, so I was doing a bit of a breakdown in another thread about how I personally think the keyes trial could be improved, and it got me to thinking...

Why do I feel like none of the current trials are really epic encounters? (Ok, Murauder does feel epic)

I mean Siege and Nightstar certainly don't. Probably in part from the fact they look like the mooks that are prevalent through all of the trials, and probably in part because of how they're usually taken down.

And Keyes? Well... that's more aggravating than epic... you basically take him down in a motor pool after shutting down a pile of reactors.

Honestly, one of the more epic encounters I've had has been Rommie. Admittedly my memories are rusty on much else, but that final fight with Rommie where you're facing off with him on the stage, trying to tangle with him while your friends fend off his Kolumn allies. He's this big burly guy in roman armor who's looks like he could just boot you all over the place, and is obviously running the show. That's the sort of fight where you think that in either a fanfic or "real world" encounters like this, that entire area would be more like the hollows than anything (is it strange that before I looked it up I thought that the "hollowing" occurred because two super-heroes went at it and the force of their blows caused the cave in?).

Next would probably be Reichsman given that he very obviously clobbers you twice before you finally take him on with constant reinforcements showing up. Is it Chaotic? Yep, but it also feels like how a fight between super-heroes and the lord of an entire military should be.

Anyway... sorry for rambling to get to this question:

What is your most epic encounter from the various ArchVillain/Hero battles? It can either be the actual in-game battle, or just the epic level encounter design.

Personally, an "epic encounter" to me requires an epic behind it. It requires a story setting up the enormity of the threat that the antagonist poses, setting up his massive, sinister power, setting up all the things everyone stands to lose. This epic needs to make it clear that many others have fought him before and lost. Horribly. Many others who were much stronger than you, in fact. It needs to drive home the point that you should have no chance to succeed against such amazing, impossible odds, and yet how you have no choice but to try anyway. The antagonist is impossibly strong, his plan is unbelievably sinister and your only option for offence is to come straight through the front door and walk right into a killing field, but you still have to do it.

When the final fight goes down, everyone's eyes are on you, you carry everyone's hopes, you are their last hope. Even though everyone expects you to lose, they still come together in their support. You are their champion, their saviour, their hero. You face your impossible odds but stand your ground, you take the blows but stand strong and tall. And in the end, despite it all, you still win.

This, to me, is an epic storyline. This is a victory which matters. When the antagonist matters and is made up to be both important and strong, and when the task of stopping him made up as vital, the victory is much more meaningful.

Or I guess you can go with the WoW approach by just making enemies big and not worry about decent storytelling, I suppose. But that's not really "epic" in pretty much any sense of the word. A clusterhug is not epic. It is just confusing and boring.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

First couple of times I ran Synapse it felt epic. CW King has his unique tunnel like map and his green head makes him stand out from the rest of the clocks.

Eden, especially the first time I ran it, feels epic.

It's this immense cave system swarming with mobs, guarded by Giant Monsters and that awesome final room with the Crystal Titan on his pedastal. Nothing else in the game really has that sense of scale; sure the Shadow Shard is big, but it's "outdoors" and mostly empty, whereas Eden feels big.

I think the ITF is epic. The theme of that TF is your team against an army, and boy do they set the maps up with enemies! My favorite is when you fight an army of robots.

Epic screenshot!

Personally, I don't equate "epic" with "big." I find people like Requiem and Nosferatu to be much more epic in how their story is told than things like the Crystal Titan or the Kronos Titan. Yes, the latter are big, but they're just sort of "there." They don't have almost any backstory, there's very little implied threat to them. The're just big things that exist somewhere so that they can be broken. I'm always far more impressed with people who manage to acquire incredible power without becoming big and ugly.

Just as a random example, consider the full strength and power of the Hamidon - the tentacles, the giant single-cell organism, the parasitic mould, you know. Now condense all of this down to a single, human-shaped character with all of these powers. Consider how hideously dangerous that would be, how hard it would be to track down and target with weapons of mass destruction and what kind of stories you can tell with the thing. I mean, you can't put the Hamiba into an office building. It wouldn't fit through the door. You can, however, put in a "final evolved" creature in there and have it absolutely lay waste to the place and kill anyone who ventures inside. And you can't nuke it, either, because it's not off by itself in a field in the middle of nowhere.

This is kind of a common theme in anime - the big, strong, ugly monsters are typically seen as inferior and unrefined, the expression of uncontrolled mutation and bad technology. By contrast, both the chief protagonist and chief antagonist have technology and genetics which give them the same level of power, if not even significantly more, but in a compact, comfortable package. THAT is what impresses me the most. Powerful without being big.

*edit*
I'm an idiot and put my screenshots in the wrong thread...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Hmm, and here I want to have it be able a quest to find a way to return my love back to life, but ultimately failing that joy but returning with knowledge that is far more valuable to my people.

Some things in-game that I would describe as epic...

Abandoned sewer trial--While this one loses much of its mystique with repeated runs, the descent into the depths of the sewer system (without any maps!), the scads of Rikti, the nastiness of the baby krakens and the Hydra itself, the need to coordinate timing, location, tactics and temp weapon management to defeat the Hydra... This was the first real "epic" trial I ever participated in, and I still enjoy running it today.

Eden trial--definitely. The scope, the maps, the hordes of monsters, the crystal titan, all contribute to the sheer excitement I felt the first time I ran that trial. Still one of my favorites.

Lord Recluse's SF--really, the final mission is all it'd take for me to consider this one epic. You and your team. The Freedom Phalanx. Nothing else. Simple and lovely.

Virgil Tarakoss's SF--Unremarkable until the final mission, then $#!% gets REAL. Unique map, unique monster, choice of equally viable tactics, hordes of special minions. Took my breath away the first time I saw it.

The culmination of any Patron's arc redside--The buildup and the story leading to taking on future Recluse primes you, and then the final battle on a wasteland map delivers.


While I could make arguments for Synapse, the Leviathan strike force, Statesman's task force and several others, the five above are what really felt "epic" to me.


K

I actually found the Jade Spider epic, partly because I was able to run the mission solo. Made my character feel important and not just Hero #5 in a team.

*Some Cov spoilers...-*

I think the final encounter in RSF was pretty epic.

Last mission of Silver mantis is another epic encounter, even though it isn't very villain-like. Taking on an army of Sky Raiders, watching their base burn towards the end of the mission and defeating their commander makes for one pretty neat encounter.

The last fight against Ajax is also something which I liked.

My Crab Spider Commander handing the future version of her own boss his backside was pretty awesome. Throwing down to see who the nastiest spider in the web was.

Going solo vs Hro'Dtohz on my Invul/Enrg tank for the first time was awesome. As was the first successful run of the STF and LRSF.

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

It would appear that the most epic of encounters are based more on the build up to the encounter than the encounter itself.

I still think that part of it feeling epic is that you feel like you're going up against somebody special rather than just a mook.

I say, if we ever finally go up against Rularuu himself (and actually fix whatever makes such a gigantic mob problematic to fight in the mechanics), that should be pretty epic.

Epic experiences for me:
The Hess TF duo'd with my SG mate.
The Katie H TF duo'd with my SG mate.
Sister Psyche TF duo'd with my SG mate.
The ITF duo'd with my SG mate until we had to give up at the guy on the platform nr the two giant mek-men. We failed the TF but it was awesome fun all the way.
Dr Q TF duo'd with my SG mate u til we could go no further. It's a bit drawn-out but exploring the shard together felt cool.
Frostfire duo'd with my SG mate way back when she was a noob. Frostfire's great
Getting the rocketman badge, duoing with my SG mate.
The Faultline arc, duo'd with my SG mate.
Doc Vahzilok's lab map Big Fight, duo'd with my SG mate.

Hm, there's a recurring them here, I see.

Trials? Epic? Thrrppp, not in the least. They're rushed cluster-runs of attack spams, done with mostly different strangers and with no personal investment.

If I could suo them with my SG mate, they'd likely feel epic and be awesome fun.

Epic is where the heart lies IMO.

Shpuldn't someone post that pic of Spidey takimg on Firestorm around now?

Eco

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

One really memorable epic CoH experience was doing Dalgrhyn's AE arcs The Casualties of War and its twin on my 38 kin/rad. Incredible experience.

Eco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

I've had a few encounters that have been awesome ... I was fighting Black Swan on one of my Illusion/Kin toons with a team, and everyone died but me. My Non-IO'd out I/K was holding the big bad AV at bay while the rest of the team recuperated. Made me feel awesome!

My Bots/Dark MM took out Aurora Borealis as an AV back in the day when I had no idea what I was doing.

Ironically enough, the first thing that came to mind when you said "epic" was not an AV fight or TF or even Arc mission at all.

It was right around the time that multiple costume slots came out. Some friends and I were helping a teammate get her costume slot. The TSOO ambush hit ... and I was getting my butt kicked.

This was back pre-Travel Surpression, so when I found myself getting hammered, I took to the skies.

And one of the Tsoo Spirits came flying up after me.

Something about trying to stay out of range of Spirit's range while peppering him with blasts from my Assault Rifle just felt EPIC to me.

We were dogfighting over Steel Canyon. How much more epic can you get?

Kestrel facing down Hequat solo is probably the closest to "epic" I've run into... That was one hell of a knock-down, drag-out, throw-everything-you've-got-at-it cat-fight and after it was over I sort-of sat there for a minute or two thinking "Holy crap. I don't believe we actually pulled that off."

Since Kes hit 47 as the goddess went down, I also ended up working that arc into the "origin story" of her Adept partner, Cardinal... Having him around turned out to be a pretty big deal, character-wise. So, it was an important win all around. Certainly one of the toughest, most entertaining things I've done as a solo.

The Nemesis automaton version of Positron was another good one, but not as dramatic or important from a character-building perspective as knocking Miss All-Your-Mu-Are-Belong-To-Me flat on her immortal butt. XD