future Incarnate slot unlocks and stockpiling
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-07-17 04:37 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I for one am someone who has ran trials enough to T4 out a character, and kept on going. I'm not trying to stockpile threads or merits, I just enjoy running the trial content alongside any other 50 content. Does that mean I'm grinding content, because it sure doesn't feel that way. And yet I have a T4'd character, and working on more in the process.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I call it stockpiling and not grinding since I believe that most people who had large stockpiles of shards prior to I20 were not grinding them, they were simply running level 50 TFs a lot.
Grinding is a somewhat loaded word and I don't think I've ever seen an agreed upon definition for it. One person's "grinding" is another person's "running content I love". With that in mind I've come to define grinding as "Repeatedly running content that you don't really like solely for the rewards". Now most people who engage in something they consider "grinding" tend to stop as soon as they have accomplished their immediate goal (which in the case of the pre-I20 shards would presumably have been a T4 Alpha boost). Someone who hated running level 50 content (and level 50 TFs in particular) would be unlikely to continue running them after getting their Alpha boost up to the desired level. Therefore I figure most people who had large shard stockpiles had accumulated them incidentally in the process of running level 50 content either because they enjoy running level 50 content or because they were grinding it for non-shard reasons (i.e. merits or purples). I could be wrong, but I think the number of people who were grinding content specifically for the purpose of stockpiling shards was probably very low. |
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Precisely, for you it's not grinding yet someone else probably would consider it grinding.
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Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
I for one am someone who has ran trials enough to T4 out a character, and kept on going. I'm not trying to stockpile threads or merits, I just enjoy running the trial content alongside any other 50 content. Does that mean I'm grinding content, because it sure doesn't feel that way. And yet I have a T4'd character, and working on more in the process.
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At the end of the day, running incarnate trials day in day out can be considered "grinding" too and to actually progress your Incarnate abilities without losing your sanity the Incarnate trials are pretty much your only avenue. To get T4s on those slots is going to take quite a bit of grinding unless you just get insanely lucky with the drops.
Since all other content outside of this either only drops shards, alpha related components, or nothing at all it quickly makes all other level 50 content redundant. For me, I enjoy being able to bump up the difficulty and solo storyarcs and general missions just to get a feel for how far my character has progressed. However I could run Maria Jenkins' storyarc and perhaps pickup 6 shards for my efforts. Granted I get reward merits but my character already has a fully IOed out build so they're also very limited in their uses.
What I find problematic with the game at the moment is that there's just too many merits flying around. With every new system that comes into the game there's a new set of "merits" or currency to go with it. They're like little adverts enticing us to play a certain system in the game but the big problem is that they're not freely interchangeable. This is an issue because as soon as a new system comes out, the old one is left in the dust along with a lot of the content that went along with it.
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Yes. It's going to be Incarnate Waffles and Incarnate Fried Chicken but you can only get a piece of iChicken per day.|
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Are we going to get Incarnate Fragments, Facets, Slivers, Chunks, Slices, Nuggets, Blobs and Bits as well as the currencies we already have?
Eco. |
Personally, I was quite fond of Incarnate Beads because with the Shards and the Threads my quilt was looking quite pimped out y'all!
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
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You mean like with the AE?|
Originally Posted by The_Static_Man
as soon as a new system comes out, the old one is left in the dust along with a lot of the content that went along with it.
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Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Fixed, because this isn't something that just started with the incarnate system. CoH, since inventions, has always seen the solution to gating new content as "Welp, we'll just create a new currency!"|
Originally Posted by Winterminal
Probably
 It is the biggest flaw with CoH in my opinion, because the fact is, as you say, there will be people with large stockpiles, and the easiest way to keep those people from getting new shiny as soon as they unlock the newest slots (without causing a whole lot of rage) will be to introduce another new form of currency. |
It gets kind of old, fast.
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This.|
Originally Posted by Haetron
Fixed, because this isn't something that just started with the incarnate system. CoH, since inventions, has always seen the solution to gating new content as "Welp, we'll just create a new currency!"
It gets kind of old, fast. |
Creating a new currency will have the same result at it did this time.
It's a speed bump of silliness that does nothing to slow folks who are dedicated down and starts casual players at 0. It doesn't equalize jack s****. You still had folks b-casting with the +level shifts in a week or less.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Ah you are missing the other thing the new currency did.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
This.
Creating a new currency will have the same result at it did this time. It's a speed bump of silliness that does nothing to slow folks who are dedicated down and starts casual players at 0. It doesn't equalize jack s****. You still had folks b-casting with the +level shifts in a week or less. |
And I'm sure you'll find a lot of people will think that it's not necessarily a good thing that this happened.
It made people do the new content that generated that new currency.
Personally, that's why I prefer having a set of currencies. "The New Stuff" and "The Old Stuff". There are other issues with that [especially with how the frame is setup in CoH] however, and I don't know how well they will get addressed.
Let's Dance!
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Really? So creating a new currency didn't stop people from using the level 50 TFs to create their post-Alpha abilities? Fascinating, I guess all of those "I don't want to be forced to trial" threads were a figment of my imagination.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Creating a new currency will have the same result at it did this time.
It's a speed bump of silliness that does nothing to slow folks who are dedicated down and starts casual players at 0. It doesn't equalize jack s****. You still had folks b-casting with the +level shifts in a week or less. |
The core effect of switching to a new currency was to make the new trials the only viable method of post-Alpha advancement. We can argue about whether or not that was a good thing but I'm fed up with people claiming that the primary effect was to slow people with stockpiled shards.
I'd be willing to bet that if you took the total supply of thread-based components that have been generated post I20 and compared that to the supply of shard based components that could have been created with existing shard stockpiles when I20 went live that the former would be at least an order of magnitude larger than the latter.
I am thoroughly convinced that the goal behind creating a new currency was primarily about limiting what content could be effectively used for the new abilities. If shards had been usable for the new abilities then people would have spent their time farming level 50 TFs for the new abilities which the devs apparently do not want.
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Except the content isn't suddenly jumping back to tfs. The content once again is going to be trials. Seeing as how the first new trial since the thread system came into existence drops threads that can be used for all 5 slots, I don't think they'll be restricting content again via new currency. Also you could convert the shards to threads. Unless I missed something that was there from day one.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Really? So creating a new currency didn't stop people from using the level 50 TFs to create their post-Alpha abilities? Fascinating, I guess all of those "I don't want to be forced to trial" threads were a figment of my imagination.
The core effect of switching to a new currency was to make the new trials the only viable method of post-Alpha advancement. We can argue about whether or not that was a good thing but I'm fed up with people claiming that the primary effect was to slow people with stockpiled shards. I'd be willing to bet that if you took the total supply of thread-based components that have been generated post I20 and compared that to the supply of shard based components that could have been created with existing shard stockpiles when I20 went live that the former would be at least an order of magnitude larger than the latter. I am thoroughly convinced that the goal behind creating a new currency was primarily about limiting what content could be effectively used for the new abilities. If shards had been usable for the new abilities then people would have spent their time farming level 50 TFs for the new abilities which the devs apparently do not want. |
A new currency would be MORE pointless unless they intend to shift the Incarnate content from being trials. Which I don't see them doing.
Also why are folks assuming that we'll be getting new slots with the Hamidon trial?
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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My bet is on Transcendent, Cosmic and (also) Celestial Merits. As far as Shard- and Thread-like components? Probably Incarnate Fragments or Facets.
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Originally Posted by Zortel
Solar Merits and Celestial Merits
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I really don't know. Preconceived notions I imagine. I believe they actually have said the opposite of that occurring on some of the Ustreams.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Also why are folks assuming that we'll be getting new slots with the Hamidon trial?
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Posing what I like to think may be an interesting thought.
Would additional different experience types be a better situation than different currencies?
Let's Dance!
The devs have said there are no new Incanrate slots in I21.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Yeah, but there are very few people who are supporting the shards -> threads conversion as a realistic method of post-alpha progression. You can do it but it's like banging your head against a wall.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Except the content isn't suddenly jumping back to tfs. The content once again is going to be trials. Seeing as how the first new trial since the thread system came into existence drops threads that can be used for all 5 slots, I don't think they'll be restricting content again via new currency. Also you could convert the shards to threads. Unless I missed something that was there from day one.
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| A new currency would be MORE pointless unless they intend to shift the Incarnate content from being trials. Which I don't see them doing. |
Essentially you end up with tiers. The first tier is level 50 TFs which allow you to make Alpha boosts. Tier 2 is BAF/Lambda/Keyes/Underground/Whatever which allows you to slot the first 5 abilities. Tier 3 is a new set of trials which allows you to slot the remaining 5 abilities.
Some of it they might do mechanically, the obvious option being to make the enemies in the trials all 54+2 so that you need to have at least 2 level shifts before you can do them although there are other options. One option (for example) would be that the Incarnate Shifts from Lore and Destiny do not work in the tier 3 trials. That has the notable advantage of leveling the playing field between people who have done the tier 2 trials and brand new players.
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| Also why are folks assuming that we'll be getting new slots with the Hamidon trial? |
Hrm, I personally figure the next two slots will be in Issue 22. I think they want us to get a bit more powerful (+5) for the Tyrant finale.
We'll probably get a Numina/Infernal (maybe with Black Swan?) Tower and Mother Mayhem/Malaise Hospital trial in 21.5, then finish off with a Chimera TF and Dominatrix and Tyrant in Issue 22. No idea how or if they plan to fit the Woodsman in there, but that covers everybody else, right?
Nothing to base any of the above on, mind you. They're just my guesses. But it's either the next two slots, or a LOT more options for Judgement, Destiny, and maybe Interface. Possibly even Alpha (though I'm not sure where else they'd really go with that).
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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In Maria's new arc, they inform you that Shadowhunter (Praet Woodsman) was killed in the wild by the Devouring Earth.
Arc ID: 475246, "Bringing a Lord to Power"
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I'd like the Tyrant showdown to involve us fighting the entire Praetorian Guard, with us smahing up the Magisteium and Tyrant's tower, and then confronting him in his lava lair 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I'm hoping he's upgraded his lava lair, which most folks have seen already, to something more/bigger. Maybe pull a fake out, big build up and have the lair be the next to last mission. Sorry, but your Tyrant is in another castle. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I'd like the Tyrant showdown to involve us fighting the entire Praetorian Guard, with us smahing up the Magisteium and Tyrant's tower, and then confronting him in his lava lair
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Not that I don't think the lava lair is impressive, but if we're going to have yet another grand hoe down showdown with him, it should be something new.
The "lava lair" is dead to me. A relic from an older, lamer Praetoria.
I think the idea is that they're going to keep giving us other stuff to spend our incarnate goodies on like they've started to do with the merits... That way no one will have anything stockpiled, because they'll be spending their stuff on costumes, purples, unlocking capes for all their alts, and that kind of thing. It's a good way to avoid implementing any more currencies (apart from new salvage ingredients maybe.)
I think that our recent currency proliferation is a perfect example of why game designers do not work for major financial istitutions. Remember the two-dollar bill? Yeah...that went over well.
Here's how I think the Devs should get new material for the game: Pool the most prolofic Forum Posters on each topic as to what THEY would do for the game if they could. Use this data to not only influence the direction that the game goes but also the pace. Sure, some of the GOTTAHAVEITNAO crowd will filter in but most of the ideas will be thoughtful and sane.
If the Devs wanted to put the brakes on Incarnate content then they should have gated it by time like they do with other TF rewards. One of each Trial every 20 hours...period. As new Trials came out dedicated (read: crazy) players could spend more and more time doing them and building up their ubertoons. If they included one piece of new stuff to be rewarded at the end of each Trial then the stockpiles of Shards/Threads would be immaterial because we'd still need the new component.
Considering the F2P system soon to be introduced I think they should not be making the endgame more complicated. But that's a whole other arguement...
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
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It still exists - it's linked to the Well of the Furies, which is why it's able to hold an Incarnate prisoner there |
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
The "lava lair" is dead to me. A relic from an older, lamer Praetoria.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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What does the two-dollar bill have to do with anything? The american two-dollar bill has been around since 1866 (with some discontinuities).|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
I think that our recent currency proliferation is a perfect example of why game designers do not work for major financial istitutions. Remember the two-dollar bill? Yeah...that went over well.
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Besides, the two-dollar bill and the fifty cent piece are not good examples of this.
It's more like a casino where black jack uses pentagonal chips and roulette uses circular chips, and you can't mix the two.
The easiest way for the developers to keep people from stock piling shards and threads would be to drastically reduce the cap. If you couldn't have more shards than it takes to craft a notice (and I mean just the final step. I don't mean enough shards to craft all the components too.) then it would be significantly harder to buy all the new powers at release.
Grinding is a somewhat loaded word and I don't think I've ever seen an agreed upon definition for it. One person's "grinding" is another person's "running content I love". With that in mind I've come to define grinding as "Repeatedly running content that you don't really like solely for the rewards". Now most people who engage in something they consider "grinding" tend to stop as soon as they have accomplished their immediate goal (which in the case of the pre-I20 shards would presumably have been a T4 Alpha boost).
Someone who hated running level 50 content (and level 50 TFs in particular) would be unlikely to continue running them after getting their Alpha boost up to the desired level. Therefore I figure most people who had large shard stockpiles had accumulated them incidentally in the process of running level 50 content either because they enjoy running level 50 content or because they were grinding it for non-shard reasons (i.e. merits or purples).
I could be wrong, but I think the number of people who were grinding content specifically for the purpose of stockpiling shards was probably very low.