Please tell me is Panacea is worth it...
By
BeornAgain,
Posted on: 2011-07-13 17:50 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Yes, it's better. You get 7.5% recharge and 1.5% HP, which are both valuable set bonuses to Fiery Aura. Although, the proc is garbage and you can skip it and slot something else in its place if you don't care about the 6% heal enhancement.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
It's worth it if you can find it/afford it without any effort. It's not worth specifically targetting with your precious play time.
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It depends on what bonuses matter to you. If you can get five of the Panacea bonus that is important to you from some other set that is cheaper, then it is most definitely not worth it. You don't say what AT or power set you're playing, so it's hard to be concrete here.|
Originally Posted by BeornAgain
6 slotted versus 6 slotted, what is the best Healing IO set out there? Is it worth the 4.5 billion to get all 6? Would I be better off with something else?
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Depending on what bonuses your character needs, purples and PvP IOs may not be what you need at all. For example, rare IOs like Kinetic Combat do more to help you softcap defense than most purple or PvP IOs. On the other hand, purples do help characters that need a lot of recharge, such as dominators trying to perma-dom.
I don't have a single PvP IO in any build, and I don't miss them. The only one that I would consider is the Gladiator's Armor: +3 Def, but I've been able to softcap my characters without it so far.
And if you're mostly running PvE on teams at level 50+ your incarnate slots are arguably better than any PvP IO set you get.
I've actually found Doctored Wounds to be preferable in active powers for most of my builds, though I have the Numina's proc on a few characters in Health.
Panacea is significantly better than Doctored wounds if:
1) You are over the cap for 5% rech bonus. For example, melee characters easily hit the cap on 5% rech bonuses, but not on 7.5% rech bonuses. If you could slot Panacea instead of doctored wounds, and get back another 5% rech bonus elsewhere, overall the gain is 7.5% rech rather than 2.5% rech.
2) You can slot many sets of it. For example, my empath has 4 full Panacea sets. That's a total of 10% more recharge than if I'd used doctored wounds - equal to having an extra purple set in the build at no slot cost.
Panacea is worse or not vastly better than Doctored wounds if:
1) You are putting it in very long recharge powers where uptime/availability is a big concern (e.g. Dull pain). Panacea doesn't come close to capping recharge enhancement, not even at level 50. It's especially bad if you need the last slot for frankenslotting (e.g. Drain psyche. 5 Panacea + 1 acc is usually not better than 5 doctored wounds + 1 acc)
2) Neither of the above advantages apply. The slightly increased rech, recovery and hitpoints are nice, but not really a huge difference.
Where the Panacea Proc becomes worth the effort is when it is put into Pain Domination's Soothing Aura and Traps' Triage Beacon. The proc will shine in those two powers.
"Character is what you are in the dark"-John Warfin
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I've pretty much ignored this proc since it came out, I just viewed it as "not a good value". So I'm not familiar with what makes it good for the two powers mentioned above. Does it give the bonus to anyone in range? Does that mean it would be good in Spirit Tree as well?
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Originally Posted by redtornado
Where the Panacea Proc becomes worth the effort is when it is put into Pain Domination's Soothing Aura and Traps' Triage Beacon. The proc will shine in those two powers.
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Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
Hiya, yes, it would also be good in Spirit Tree 
as a matter of fact Paragon Wiki specifically mentions it's usefullness there:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Panacea:...ints/Endurance
pretty nice. Extremely tough to get a hold of though. Alignment Merits would take 60 days of effort for a total of 330 Missions to earn one. I am not sure of how many Empyream Merits it takes to get one. OR you can purchase one from someone for 2 Billion INF+. Either way, ouchie. But still for Triage Beacon, Spirit Tree, and Soothing Aura, the effort could pay off.
"Character is what you are in the dark"-John Warfin
its def not worth it
I don't think the proc or the set is that great especially for a melee toon, unless you have a ton of money to throw around.
You shouldn't be coming that close on using up all five 5% recharge bonus, unless you are only building for recharge. Most times it would be better slotting kinetic combat for the S/L defense bonus, unless you are already soft-capped or only going for recharge.
Even then if going for recharge the money would be better spent going for a purple set since higher recharge, acc bonus and fire/cold res are always helpful, even though Pancrea has regen bonus but 10% is very common.
As for the OP who is using Fiery armor unless you are making a pure AE farming build you would be better off spending your money on kinetic combats for S/L defense, if its a AE farming build or don't care about the extra survivability then I would still spend the money/merits on a purple set, PVP +3 Defense IO or use the money on another alt.
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I put the Panacea Proc in Health on my SS/WP Brute simply because I wanted all 4 Heal Procs (Panacea, Numina, Miracle, & Regen. Tissue) there. It's lark thing - don't ask me why 
But the sucker cost me about 1.8 billion... It is most definely not worth what I paid for from a 'Numbers' standpoint, but then, neither are Lamborghinis...
With ~30 Billion inf to spend at one point, I never once considered the Panacea set or proc as valuable or remotely necessary for any of my 15+ 50s.
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I like the proc for a few reasons, but even considering them still call it "neat" but not "worth it".
#1 it will get you over the ED cap on healing from passives like health. Just a like a damage proc takes you over the top on damage with an attack. Needed? not for any set that uses healing as a survival technique, but still fun for people who obsess about that kind of thing.
#2 it is a proc. -regen debuffs completely floor your regen. no amount of +health slotted into a regen power will offest this. The proc still ticks. Often I've been alive with less than 100 hp because of a luck tick. Needed? Not at all, but helpful 1 in a few thousand times a close call comes around.
#3. On squishies, it breaks sleep when it fires.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
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The proc is 65 hps on my level 50 shield scrappers, and fires fairly often. They have no other heals. I doubt that's worth the money it cost, but I have lots of money so I'm glad to have it. ^_^
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Ooh that is sexy does the Performance Shifter proc break sleeps too?
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
#3. On squishies, it breaks sleep when it fires.
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I don't think so, but the chance to heal in entropic chaos does so I have it on my blaster's tier 1. =)
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Originally Posted by Cheetatron
Ooh that is sexy does the Performance Shifter proc break sleeps too?
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"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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Fair enough. The character I am considering it for is a Fiery Aura/Electrical Melee Tank.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
You don't say what AT or power set you're playing, so it's hard to be concrete here.
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He started off as merely a farmer. But, as I began doing the Incarnate Trials (again, for nifty things to help me farm) I started really missing content, so on a whim I did a few TFs.
The way I had it set up to be a more well-rounded toon actually made it far less squishy than I had imagined a Fiery Aura ANYTHING to be...
As I continued to put in a PvP IO here, and a purple set there, the real potential as a viable content tank became apparent.
It was when I was in a PuG STF about a week ago and we WAXED everyone and I was tanking Black Scorpion and Captain Mako at the same time, I thought, "wow, he's handling this better than my main would!"*
So, now, I have a new goal: Get ALL the shiny toys I can fit into this build to make it as hardy, damaging, and fast as possible while STILL being able to 1) farm as fast as a tank can farm and 2) be as UNgimped in content as possible.
To those ends, I was wondering if the benefits of Panacea were, by cost analysis, worth the extreme expenditure of influence. I am spending the time/inf/effort and merits (Hero, Emp, and regular ol' merity merits) to get the PvP +3% def IO first, and then another 2 purple sets (Hecatomb and Ragnarok) for some attacks, before I even THINK of acquiring the Panacea set, but, in case I saw one (or, heaven forbid, one drops while in a PvP zone), I don't want to be tempted if the outcome isn't worth it.
Thank you all so very much for the input. Lots of great advice on the forum, as usual!
*- My "main" (i.e.- the first toon I ever got to lvl 50) is an Invul/Energy Melee tank on Virtue
Panacea can be worth it for a Fire Tank. More HP, Recovery and Recharge over a small amount of Fire/Cold Res and 5% recharge in doc wounds.
On my 67.5% Recharge Fire tank the recharge time on healing flames is 12.29 for Doc Wounds 12.75 for Panacea (Both 5 slotted)
The set would be amazing if you got the 1.6 S/L resistance in PvE and not PvP. 
Especially for those Dark, Elec and Fire Tanks.
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Originally Posted by BeornAgain
Fair enough. The character I am considering it for is a Fiery Aura/Electrical Melee Tank.
He started off as merely a farmer. But, as I began doing the Incarnate Trials (again, for nifty things to help me farm) I started really missing content, so on a whim I did a few TFs. The way I had it set up to be a more well-rounded toon actually made it far less squishy than I had imagined a Fiery Aura ANYTHING to be... As I continued to put in a PvP IO here, and a purple set there, the real potential as a viable content tank became apparent. It was when I was in a PuG STF about a week ago and we WAXED everyone and I was tanking Black Scorpion and Captain Mako at the same time, I thought, "wow, he's handling this better than my main would!"* So, now, I have a new goal: Get ALL the shiny toys I can fit into this build to make it as hardy, damaging, and fast as possible while STILL being able to 1) farm as fast as a tank can farm and 2) be as UNgimped in content as possible. To those ends, I was wondering if the benefits of Panacea were, by cost analysis, worth the extreme expenditure of influence. I am spending the time/inf/effort and merits (Hero, Emp, and regular ol' merity merits) to get the PvP +3% def IO first, and then another 2 purple sets (Hecatomb and Ragnarok) for some attacks, before I even THINK of acquiring the Panacea set, but, in case I saw one (or, heaven forbid, one drops while in a PvP zone), I don't want to be tempted if the outcome isn't worth it. Thank you all so very much for the input. Lots of great advice on the forum, as usual! *- My "main" (i.e.- the first toon I ever got to lvl 50) is an Invul/Energy Melee tank on Virtue |
(Wipes away a manly tear.)
I see we have another convert to the overwhelming power of the fire tanker.
Welcome! The open bar serving flaming jet fuel is over this way.....
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Panacea can be worth it for a Fire Tank. More HP, Recovery and Recharge over a small amount of Fire/Cold Res and 5% recharge in doc wounds.
On my 67.5% Recharge Fire tank the recharge time on healing flames is 12.29 for Doc Wounds 12.75 for Panacea (Both 5 slotted) The set would be amazing if you got the 1.6 S/L resistance in PvE and not PvP. Especially for those Dark, Elec and Fire Tanks. |
That one change would make that POS set worth it.
Although I must confess the PVP sets annoy me to no end: The Dev's resort to rank bribery to get people to play PVP, mainly to shut up the incredible whining of the three PVP players who actually enjoy that sort of idiotic gankfest, and set off the worst AFK farming since the game was begun.
Oh, excellent work, guys.
I really hope there are ways in the future to get those sets without paying a slack-*** AFK farmer in body parts.
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do you find the healing component alone to be worth the slot cost?
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
I don't think so, but the chance to heal in entropic chaos does so I have it on my blaster's tier 1. =)
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Meh, PvP IOs are sooo not worth the effort for any of my characters.
I've gotten several characters to god-like mode via IOs, and none of them use PvP IOs or purples. Heck, my perma-doms don't use purples.
Sure, I wouldn't mind a Panacea +HP/Recovery in Health alongside a Miracle and Numina +Regen/Recov, but considering the amount of godlike you can achieve using just rare IOs, it would be the last thing I would slot.
As something to work for after completely IOing with standard sets like Obliteration, Thunderstrike, etc. and fully incarnating your character, sure, it's nice to have something to work for. But as something you 'need to have'. It's totally not 'necessary' in any way.
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Healing and damage break sleeps. Regen doesn't count as healing, and neither do end mods, but +hp procs and effects of all sorts do.
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Originally Posted by Cheetatron
Ooh that is sexy does the Performance Shifter proc break sleeps too?
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Pretty sure there are 2 other ways to get those Sets already.....
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Originally Posted by mauk2
That one change would make that POS set worth it.
Although I must confess the PVP sets annoy me to no end: The Dev's resort to rank bribery to get people to play PVP, mainly to shut up the incredible whining of the three PVP players who actually enjoy that sort of idiotic gankfest, and set off the worst AFK farming since the game was begun. Oh, excellent work, guys. I really hope there are ways in the future to get those sets without paying a slack-*** AFK farmer in body parts. |
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Indeed, you are correct, sir!|
Originally Posted by Madadh
Pretty sure there are 2 other ways to get those Sets already.....
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Let's examine how difficult those methods are.
Alignment Merits: 11 missions for each AM, spread over two days. Minimum cost for the POS PVP IO's is 25, to a max of 35. Assume 30 each. 180 AM's per set. So, to get one set, that's 1980 missions, over 360 days of play. Empyreans are carefully tuned to be somewhat easier, IF you can reliably find leagues willing to do all three trials once every day.
Now let's compare that to the farmers:
PVP AFK farm: Get 2+ accounts. Set up one AOE killer. Set up 1+ hapless victims. Spend an hour, maybe, tuning the kill-speed vs rez speed so it works just right. Hide your 2+toons, go to bed. Wake up, PROFIT!
Yeaaahhh. That's perfectly balanced, that is.
I love this game...
I will run AE missions, play in Ouroboros, run TFs and trials, do tips and even regular ol' contact missions.
Just like all of you good folks (or evil denizens for the Rogue Isles crowd).
And, in order to make my characters as 'heroic' (or villainous) as possible, I try to get the best IOs and IO sets I can in order to reap the benefits of all the nifty bonuses.
Once again, just like all of you.
However, even when looking at things in Mids, I really don't grok the benefits of certain IOs.
I rarely, I mean RARELY do PvP. I am in a PvP SG on Freedom, and I do go play on occasion, but not enough to PvP IO out a build.
But, are there certain instances when a set of PvP IOs is better in PvE?
The singular instance I am curious about is Panacea versus Doctored Wounds or Numina's Convalescence in the Fiery Aura's Healing Flames.
6 slotted versus 6 slotted, what is the best Healing IO set out there? Is it worth the 4.5 billion to get all 6? Would I be better off with something else?