So When Did AE Farms get add to the Hall of Fame.
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-07-09 18:32 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Old news. *shrug*
Does say just how much attention AE gets from the devs, though. "Hey, here's this great, unique to our game, revolutionary new system! We're going to introduce it,t hen... um... yeah, I don't know, let it sit or something."
Hall of Fame is awarded by the players, not the devs. It just shows that the majority of AE players are playing the same farms and rating them 5 stars if they do what they're supposed to - which is give XP - which is not hard to do. Meanwhile the minority of AE players play whatever story they happen to find, and rate it based on how they feel it should be rated, which for a good arc could be anywhere between 3 and 5 stars. Anything less than 5 moves the arc farther away from being Hall of Fame.
The AE is whatever it is to the player creating the arc/mission, enthralling cascading stories, or one room ambush.
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For this topic, you'll be better off in the long run waving as you pass by the oddity and moving on along.
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The incarnate endgame content is basically farming.
*shrug*
Get with the times Positron 180.
the argument could be made that farming is about maximizing rewards while minimizing risks. while eventually getting level shifts and running with a solid crew minimizes chances of failure on incarnate trials, they lack the capacity to truly minimize risks in the way most successful farms have.
you can report farms and get them shut down, right? or has that fallen by the wayside?
Well, on one hand, the Fire Farm in the Hall of Fame, is likely more fun to play than most of the "Oh look! I have a story" type of AE missions.
I mean really, I just can't help but go back to the AE arc I ran, about a boy who lost his dog that was a werewold that being hunted by ninja dogcatchers. o.O
Yeah sure. They put work into it. But not really the type of story I'm looking for.
Same goes with the PvP Writer guest arc. It showed all the cool things that could be done which was good, but the characters belonged in something akin to the Tick, not something I consider for CoH.
This isn't to say I didn't enjoy them for the humor these type of AE arcs might have, but it's just not something I'd rate a 5, due to it not fitting the mood of CoH imo (which is of course going to vary from person to person).
The one thing that can be liked by most people...FARMS! As most people who play don't care about the story.
Even those who do enjoy the story of CoH tend to get a lot of it wrong.
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I think a bit of this is due to the firestorm that erupted in AE's wake. A revolutionary system they'd spent months on and within hours of it hitting live the servers were abuzz with bAEbies. The resulting nerfs and negativity surrounding it just soured the Dev's on the whole system. Unable to figure out how to reward the proper arcs while limiting the farms combined with the bugs cropping up and there ya go.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Old news. *shrug*
Does say just how much attention AE gets from the devs, though. "Hey, here's this great, unique to our game, revolutionary new system! We're going to introduce it,t hen... um... yeah, I don't know, let it sit or something." |
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Really I just found out Yesterday, when a friend AE Farm got into the Hall of Fame, I just think it strange for it to be in the Hall of Fame, but gratz to my friend Voltz, for making an Awesome Farm.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Old news. *shrug*
Does say just how much attention AE gets from the devs, though. "Hey, here's this great, unique to our game, revolutionary new system! We're going to introduce it,t hen... um... yeah, I don't know, let it sit or something." |
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Nah Positron himself said it was running the same content over and over due to rewards.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
the argument could be made that farming is about maximizing rewards while minimizing risks. while eventually getting level shifts and running with a solid crew minimizes chances of failure on incarnate trials, they lack the capacity to truly minimize risks in the way most successful farms have.
you can report farms and get them shut down, right? or has that fallen by the wayside? |
Wonder if he's going to ban anyone for running the iTrials over and over.
On a serious note though. I wouldn't worry about this. The dev team tend to COMPLETELY ignore old systems (pvp, base building, etc) when they have a new system to focus on. Now that incarnate stuff is the new shiney, I can't imagine the AE will get any attention.
I mean look at this thread about how the word "Paragon" is on the AE banlist. So many normal words are banned and the vast majority of old arcs are full of bugs.
Alas poor AE I knew you well...
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It is a business decision most likely - will we get the money we invest on fixing this back, either by gaining new subscribers/paying customers or avoid losing too many customers.|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
On a serious note though. I wouldn't worry about this. The dev team tend to COMPLETELY ignore old systems (pvp, base building, etc) when they have a new system to focus on. Now that incarnate stuff is the new shiney, I can't imagine the AE will get any attention.
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If the answer is no, it gets a lower priority than things that might provide better opportunity for revenue and profit increase.
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If the farm is using a bug to get an unfair advantage, then yes. There is nothing about the ambush fire farms that fall under being classified as using a bug.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
you can report farms and get them shut down, right? or has that fallen by the wayside?
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Hall of Fame is merely high rating + number of votes.
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Well yeah obviously it's a business decision. The vast majority of customers care more about the new shiney than the old stuff. But customer retention relies on the old stuff working to an acceptable degree. (Because all current stuff eventually becomes old stuff.)|
Originally Posted by Sente_
It is a business decision most likely - will we get the money we invest on fixing this back, either by gaining new subscribers/paying customers or avoid losing too many customers.
If the answer is no, it gets a lower priority than things that might provide better opportunity for revenue and profit increase. |
So when you look at COH's old stuff - PVP, Base Building, and now AE. And all you see is a series of bugs and failed targets, you have to wonder if NCSoft really cares about customer retention. To me it seems like their main aim is to make people chase the shiney new stuff (at the expense of the old stuff) as a means to steamroll in COH2 in around two years.
I am genuinely worried that COH is basically just a hype machine for COH2 right now. The game going F2P isn't helping to alleviate my paranoia
The farms are the most played arcs, therefore get the spots in the Hall of Fame. Not to mention, as has been stated, as the new end-game is basically limited (at least currently) to "farming" the same three missions, the Devs' attitudes towards farming for rewards has obviously changed.
I have to agree with most of the points here, in order below:
- The Mission Architect system is currently not the big selling point nor the newest thing, and therefore uninteresting to newer/resubscribing players.
- If the Mission Architect is not garnering money with player interest, they will not put any more financial resources towards its upkeep and maintenance.
- The Mission Architect becomes little more than a side-project, something that had a lot of potential but is ignored due to a negative and/or less-than-desired response.
It is called Shiny Penny Syndrome: you see a penny and pick it up, but as soon you have it, you see another shinier penny further down the road, and you go pick that one up while just pocketing the other. Repeat, while replacing the pennies with in-game systems, and you get the idea.
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The devs are paying attention - you'll notice that the HoF farms don't have the regular rewards option that story HoF arcs do.
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HoF arcs give regular rewards? I thought that was just "Dev Choice" arcs?
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Originally Posted by Verene
The devs are paying attention - you'll notice that the HoF farms don't have the regular rewards option that story HoF arcs do.
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Eh, anyway, as has been pointed out, Hall of Fame is based on player votes and since the GMs/Mods seem to have not been policing AE for quite some time and the Devs haven't made much headway in fixing AE issues, it's not a complete surprise that some farms have made into the Hall of Fame since the most common use of AE has become farming. Farm arcs rarely have to deal with the various problems with the censor or other issues since they generally rely on simple setups and little to no text. i remember seeing text in most farm missions where the authors asked people not to rate them to avoid drawing GM attention, but that was at least a year ago. The lack of enforcement obviously has changed that. If enough people who actually enjoy AE for the stories rate farms low enough they'll eventually lose Hall of Fame status. In the meantime it is what it is: amusing and rather telling.
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Something brought up a while ago in an AE thread is that farms vs stories run into an objective vs subjective problem. Farms are only judged based off of whether or not they give good rewards. Stories get judged off of multiple factors that can fluctuate from person to person. Comedy probably gets hit the hardest since people's tastes are so different.
Something else which I think Paragon Studios does need to pay attention to: a lot of story writers are getting burnt out. It's possible that there's a "put your money where your mouth is" problem where they haven't yet quit the game. Though that leads to a catch 22 you see in the entertainment industry. Things go well and devs figure everything is fine as is. People stop buying into the product/service and rather than trying to fix it, it gets pushed to the back burner and ignored since it's supposedly not worth the effort.
I should note that some farms are actually pretty darn fun in a mindless way. (some of them have an "
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Probably just an off topic mini rant, but AE frustrates me. I have 3 perfectly good arcs up that are completely non farm, challenging, fun arcs that I've had friends run and critique, but no one runs AE for fun anymore.
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You're simplifying Posi's explanation... and that creates a use of the term "farm" that's so broad that it becomes meaningless. Entire genres of games (from pacman through mario to some of the latests a-listers) would be considered nothing but "farms." There would be no need to differentiate between "raids" and "farms" and "street hunts" and "grinds" and any of the other terms we use to define gameplay. |
Originally Posted by Xanatos
Nah Positron himself said it was running the same content over and over due to rewards.
Wonder if he's going to ban anyone for running the iTrials over and over. On a serious note though. I wouldn't worry about this. The dev team tend to COMPLETELY ignore old systems (pvp, base building, etc) when they have a new system to focus on. Now that incarnate stuff is the new shiney, I can't imagine the AE will get any attention. I mean look at this thread about how the word "Paragon" is on the AE banlist. So many normal words are banned and the vast majority of old arcs are full of bugs. Alas poor AE I knew you well... |
Put into historical context of MMO's, you had "hunters" that would run around instances, find new mobs, and kill them. A person that found a good respawn point (usually, but not always, with unique drops) settled down to just that spot. Just as hunter-gatherers settled down into farmers, "farming" seemed a natural name to give it.
In this early state, the proponents of "farming" defended the practice as a form of the Bartle "explorer" gameplay. While poking and prodding at the game, you find things that give better reward (over time and/or over challenge) than the way the devs anticipated (or intended), and then you pause to take advantage of that discovery. Developers often DID offer some perks out there FOR explorers to discover- things that just worked better and gave somewhat-better reward rates. The explorer thus saw "farming" as a badge of honor, and the responsible explorer knew to exercise judgement and to report something that they thought went "too far." They were treading in a gray area-- if the farm was TOO effective, they'd be exploiters, and they couldn't easily read a dev's mind to tell where they'd measure that threshold. Early farmer-explorers were some of the best bug-reporters early MMO-devs had.
The problem became that many explorers didn't report questionable discoveries to the devs. Some had the attitude of "if they let it in the game, we can use it... and if they can't find it, too bad." They were broken pieces of the game (exploits) that, if stumbled over once or twice weren't particularly bad, but when FARMED, they could lead to real trouble-- and many exploits in games were farmed to disastrous levels for the MMO. Thus, "farming" came to be known as synonymous with "exploiting" among non-farmers and MANY in the community started putting a lot more anger behind that word.
Finally, we have latecomers that never understood the history of a "farm" or caught the significance of tying optimizing reward into the definition. They incorrectly used "farm" for... well... virtually every kind of grind they encountered. Any kill-all activity. Anything where the primary effort is to run around and beat up stuff. It saves them the "boring time" traveling point to point, and they don't pause to read stories. To them, that's "farming" and they're fine with it... and they don't see the issue with farming because they're using the words in ways that the people who rail against a farm would find absurd (*I* find it absurd).
You can say its all relative and we all should be able to use the word however we want, but from an operational standpoint, the most-broad definition serves no useful function- it defines virtually nothing that "playing" doesn't, and there are more descriptive terms (hunts, raids, missions, "kill[ing] skuls") that offer better function. You just can't exclude the whole "gray area" of optimizing risk/time/reward without eliminating any useful meaning the word may have.
These days, I automatically give five stars to anything that isn't a farm, just out of gratitude that someone is still putting forth an effort.
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This. Majority of the people using the AE like to farm. Right now, I only use the AE to farm, grind, whatever you want to call it.
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Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
Hall of Fame is awarded by the players, not the devs. It just shows that the majority of AE players are playing the same farms and rating them 5 stars if they do what they're supposed to - which is give XP - which is not hard to do. Meanwhile the minority of AE players play whatever story they happen to find, and rate it based on how they feel it should be rated, which for a good arc could be anywhere between 3 and 5 stars. Anything less than 5 moves the arc farther away from being Hall of Fame.
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Couple of the Short Missions in the Hall of Fame, are well Known AE farms, me an a couple of Friend started laughing about it, Since when did the Derv care about farming any way. Do anyone else find it funny also that derv been Against farming AE since it came out and now AE Farms Missions got pick for the Hall of Fame. There are tons of good Mission Story Arcs that been made in AE and a Farm that does not have any type of Story Arc or Story to tell get pick for The Hall of Fame, this is just Lol man lol.
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