Quote:
After this much time has passed, it would add the "Last edited my MrDead" tag with the date and time to the end of the post.|
Originally Posted by MrDead
I am so tempted to go change it and act like I don't know what you're talking about...
|
Stealth edits have to be done much quicker in my limited experience.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Quote:
Starting with such a closed minded view of the situation is not really going to help your case, IMO.|
Originally Posted by MrDead
-shrug- I'm not determined, it is and it is. There really isn't a good argument why this would be game destroying. In my semi-experienced opinion this works, and works well. But hey, I'm just suggesting what I see as a way to better make the game prosper, and I know nobody wants that...
|
While your idea has merits, it does have flaws even if you choose not to see them.
Since you have arbitrarily decided there is no counter argument, then by all means, continue to put forth your brilliant idea and I am sure the developers will thank you later.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
Can we just agree to disagree at this point?
And more thoughts on specials; if there was a way to tie in offers made to buying history (ock thereof) that could work. Probably be a pain on the backend, mind you... But if someone hasn't bought in a while, they should totally get a special offer, you know?
Quote:
I don't really have to convince you. You have to convince the devs. Good luck with that. If it happens, it will have to be essentially insignificant. And insignificant is basically pointless.|
Originally Posted by MrDead
Well since I'm the only one who apparently actually plays another MMO AND an F2P one and have been playing this one easily as long as any of you, I sincerely doubt she can say anything that will _actually_ make any sense. There's nothing she can say that will make me believe letting free players earn some points in game and then buy a double xp potion, or time travel, or a skirt will require even the slightest shred of rebalancing, because quite frankly it won't.
|
Also, I rather doubt its likely you've played this MMO significantly longer than I have. You might have played more F2P ones than I have, although I have played all the major western ones that have converted to F2P including the Turbine ones since their early betas.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
No, thank you. 1 might work though. 200 tf's to earn enough points to buy premium sounds like a reasonable scale... are you under the impression they make thse points out of platinum or something? They don't cost anything to print you know. Are they going to buy a X100 damage power up in the store I'm unaware of?
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If your point is that there has to be a level of Paragon Point award that is so low it cannot possibly be balance-significant, if you like I can ask the devs if they would be willing to give you 0.000000000000000000000000000000000001 Paragon Points for every successful completion of Dr. Quarterfield.
|
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
Quote:
Ah but it's NOT my idea. It's an implemented system that turned a company on the brink of ruin into a financially profitable venture. Still.
|
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
Starting with such a closed minded view of the situation is not really going to help your case, IMO.
While your idea has merits, it does have flaws even if you choose not to see them. Since you have arbitrarily decided there is no counter argument, then by all means, continue to put forth your brilliant idea and I am sure the developers will thank you later. |
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
Quote:
I said as long or longer.
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I don't really have to convince you. You have to convince the devs. Good luck with that. If it happens, it will have to be essentially insignificant. And insignificant is basically pointless.
Also, I rather doubt its likely you've played this MMO significantly longer than I have. You might have played more F2P ones than I have, although I have played all the major western ones that have converted to F2P including the Turbine ones since their early betas. |
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
This may have already been covered or this may be the wrong place to ask, but how will rewards earned as a VIP player transfer if you change to a free account? For example: I have a subscription now which will become a VIP account. if 3 months after CoH Freedom comes out I change to a free account, will I lose access to ATs, Powersets, or other content I had access to as a VIP and as a subscribing player? If I switch from a VIP account to a free account, but two patches have been released since CoH Freedom was released, do I loose content from those patches and have to buy it again? If someone starts with a free account, then becomes a VIP, then goes back to a free account, do they get to keep access to features released in patches from when they were a VIP, but not released before they were a VIP? Do people becoming VIPs after starting with free accounts get access to content that pre-dates CoH Freedom, and then loose it again when if they switch to free accounts?
*takes a deep breath*
Also, is it possible to upgrade a VIP account in preparation for it becoming a free account? Let's say I have a fantastic job which is paying me boat loads of money, but I'm afraid that at some point I won't have that fantastic job and won't be able to pay for a VIP account. Can I start buying access to ATs, powersets, mission content, and costume items that I currently have access to as a VIP player and then have them already unlocked for me once I switch to a free account for the first time without paying for them again? How many slots can we unlock for our free accounts? Do slots we unlocked during previous systems exceed that number? Do slots we got as veteran rewards exceed the maximum number of slots we can have on free accounts through slot purchase?
What is the answer to life, the universe, and everything?
Liberty Server:
Genso - level 50 controller
Tsuya - level 50 controller
Mia Chan - level 50 controller
Tsu One - Level 50 scrapper
Ember Kitten - Level 50 Blaster
Various alts
Quote:
As I read it you'll lose (or have locked) anything you didn't pay points for or get automaticaly as a premium player. But Chad will probably chime in in short order with a clearer answer.
|
Originally Posted by Hansha
This may have already been covered or this may be the wrong place to ask, but how will rewards earned as a VIP player transfer if you change to a free account? For example: I have a subscription now which will become a VIP account. if 3 months after CoH Freedom comes out I change to a free account, will I lose access to ATs, Powersets, or other content I had access to as a VIP and as a subscribing player? If I switch from a VIP account to a free account, but two patches have been released since CoH Freedom was released, do I loose content from those patches and have to buy it again? If someone starts with a free account, then becomes a VIP, then goes back to a free account, do they get to keep access to features released in patches from when they were a VIP, but not released before they were a VIP? Do people becoming VIPs after starting with free accounts get access to content that pre-dates CoH Freedom, and then loose it again when if they switch to free accounts?
*takes a deep breath* Also, is it possible to upgrade a VIP account in preparation for it becoming a free account? Let's say I have a fantastic job which is paying me boat loads of money, but I'm afraid that at some point I won't have that fantastic job and won't be able to pay for a VIP account. Can I start buying access to ATs, powersets, mission content, and costume items that I currently have access to as a VIP player and then have them already unlocked for me once I switch to a free account for the first time without paying for them again? How many slots can we unlock for our free accounts? Do slots we unlocked during previous systems exceed that number? Do slots we got as veteran rewards exceed the maximum number of slots we can have on free accounts through slot purchase? What is the secret to life, the universe, and everything? |
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
In order to be able to usefully offer us points for in-game accomplishments, there would need to be a notably different set of structures in place.
In both of Turbine's MMOs, there are some fairly notable distinctions that have to be noted. One of them is a more standard model MMO, which has significantly different gating rules than CoX does. The other, which is closer to CoX in playstyle (and the way you can roll over content in groups), already had a mechanism in place to which point progress could be tied.
The closest analog we have to that MMO's particular standing mechanism is badges, and attaching money to badges is a level of insanity I don't think I'm comfortable attributing to any of the current CoX devs.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
|
Quote:
I THINK it'd be possible to emulate faction pretty transparently, but it's not like I wrote out a draft or anything...
|
Originally Posted by Void_Huntress
In order to be able to usefully offer us points for in-game accomplishments, there would need to be a notably different set of structures in place.
In both of Turbine's MMOs, there are some fairly notable distinctions that have to be noted. One of them is a more standard model MMO, which has significantly different gating rules than CoX does. The other, which is closer to CoX in playstyle (and the way you can roll over content in groups), already had a mechanism in place to which point progress could be tied. The closest analog we have to that MMO's particular standing mechanism is badges, and attaching money to badges is a level of insanity I don't think I'm comfortable attributing to any of the current CoX devs. |
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
Quote:
SCR, ahoy.
|
Originally Posted by MrDead
I THINK it'd be possible to emulate faction pretty transparently, but it's not like I wrote out a draft or anything...
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
|
Quote:
VIP subscribers have access to things as part of their VIP subscription that they *lose* access to if they stop subscribing. If they stop subscribing they will have to unlock those things to gain access back as a premium subscriber. Once unlocked, something is unlocked forever whether you flip back and forth between VIP and Premium. But it is important to note that just because a VIP player has access to something, doesn't mean they "unlocked" it. It means they have access while they are a VIP. To unlock something, you essentially have to pay for it or earn it in some other way directly.|
Originally Posted by Hansha
This may have already been covered or this may be the wrong place to ask, but how will rewards earned as a VIP player transfer if you change to a free account? For example: I have a subscription now which will become a VIP account. if 3 months after CoH Freedom comes out I change to a free account, will I lose access to ATs, Powersets, or other content I had access to as a VIP and as a subscribing player? If I switch from a VIP account to a free account, but two patches have been released since CoH Freedom was released, do I loose content from those patches and have to buy it again? If someone starts with a free account, then becomes a VIP, then goes back to a free account, do they get to keep access to features released in patches from when they were a VIP, but not released before they were a VIP? Do people becoming VIPs after starting with free accounts get access to content that pre-dates CoH Freedom, and then loose it again when if they switch to free accounts?
|
Quote:
|
*takes a deep breath* Also, is it possible to upgrade a VIP account in preparation for it becoming a free account? Let's say I have a fantastic job which is paying me boat loads of money, but I'm afraid that at some point I won't have that fantastic job and won't be able to pay for a VIP account. Can I start buying access to ATs, powersets, mission content, and costume items that I currently have access to as a VIP player and then have them already unlocked for me once I switch to a free account for the first time without paying for them again? |
But the solution to that problem is to look at all the stuff you want to buy, figure out how much Paragon Points it would take to buy it all, and then just buy the points. Once you have all those points in your account, they will be there waiting for you if you decide to drop from VIP to Premium, and you can use them to buy whatever you want. But since you haven't actually spent them, if at the moment you decide to drop down to premium you've changed your mind as to what you want and do not want, you can still make the decision at that time.
Quote:
| How many slots can we unlock for our free accounts? Do slots we unlocked during previous systems exceed that number? Do slots we got as veteran rewards exceed the maximum number of slots we can have on free accounts through slot purchase? |
2. If you mean what I think you mean, no.
3. No. Free accounts start off with two slots they can use on any of the servers. That's two total, not two per server. After that, as far as I know there's no limit on the number you can buy. The only difference between the number of slots a premium player can buy and a VIP player is technically speaking the VIP player has access to the VIP server, and as a result they can technically buy 36 more character slots (which would fill it) than a premium player. But so far I have not heard of a maximum limit to the number of character slots a premium player will be allowed to purchase and unlock.
A point of clarification I would like to make here. Free players are by definition (in Freedom) players that have never bought anything, ever. So by definition free players cannot really buy anything: the moment they do they become premium players. Premium players are the ala carte non-subscribers in the CoH: Freedom model.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
OK. You get your current subscription and 400 PP per month if you continue paying your subscription. Of course how they handle new items: costumes, power sets, etc. determines whether it's a good deal or a bad deal.|
Originally Posted by Buxley1
How do you figure, Cptn Courageous? The Red Names have said the VIP subscription price will remain the same as the current subscription price AND will include 400 Paragon Points per month for our spending pleasure.
Believe me I've looked, but I'm having trouble seeing a downside to this whole thing. -Buxley |
According to the new pricing guide a full bonus pack similar to the Ninja Pack would cost you $12.00+. but that's just that pack--granted you don't have to purchase the whole thing, you can pick up what ever pieces you want. So for three months PP of VIP freebie you get the equivalent of a bonus pack once every three months.
VIP special missions are free to VIP members you don't have to worry about that,
And you get 1 free transfer per month so far so good.
However it's the things they're not telling you that has me worried.
If a marketing person tells you your pants are on fire and they're going to give you a free pair of pants, it's because they want to sell you the underwear, wallet, belt, socks, shoes and shirt that goes with the "free" pants...and that's because all that other stuff adds up to more than the pants are worth.
When a company changes it's marketing model, it's because they are hoping to make more money out of their customers through this model. Not because they're altruistic.
Putting every improvement in the game above basic service in the store shop micromanages the flow of items at 80 points per $1.00. Items that before would have been free will now cost PP's. The 400 PP's each month will be unlikely to cover all the things offered hence they offer VIP's the opportunity to purchase more PP's at $5.00 and (such a deal) larger amounts of points purchased will get bonus points (yet to be determined).
Don't you get it? The real money to be made is not in the subscriptions but in the amount of points players buy. Over time the amount of points purchased by players will be so much larger than subscriptions they might as well offer basic play for free... which is basically what they've done here and in Champions Online, LOTRO, and D&DO.
The 400 pts. are a herring on a hook tossed out there to lure you into a sense of complacency. It will be a while (maybe 6 months, or a year or even two) before the economic model kicks in all the way and they start gating the new content completely by points. It won't be long before those 400 points will seem awfully small... but by then you'll have accepted the system... and all the content we used to think of as included with our subscription fee will be extra.
¿SCR?
MrDead - I would suggest actually writing out a draft and maybe PMing it. Keep in mind the devs and management likely have poured over details of other F2P titles you have available, plus likely have studies, projections and more data plus goals (break even , successful, wildly successful) that you don't. They likely have other considerations, maybe even consultations, in various matters including this.
Keep in mind this is not final, and can, if not will, change by i21s launch and will evolve past then too. It might be a consideration, might have some dev support, but regardless its not yet announced as being an absolute yes or no... So don't rule it out, but do t count on it either. Just because other (but not all!) hybrids do it doesn't mean Paragon would or should.
Quote:
I understand all that believe me it's just this current model concerns me and feels like a major weird and pointless shift sideways that won't accomplish anything.|
Originally Posted by Psyte
¿SCR?
MrDead - I would suggest actually writing out a draft and maybe PMing it. Keep in mind the devs and management likely have poured over details of other F2P titles you have available, plus likely have studies, projections and more data plus goals (break even , successful, wildly successful) that you don't. They likely have other considerations, maybe even consultations, in various matters including this. Keep in mind this is not final, and can, if not will, change by i21s launch and will evolve past then too. It might be a consideration, might have some dev support, but regardless its not yet announced as being an absolute yes or no... So don't rule it out, but do t count on it either. Just because other (but not all!) hybrids do it doesn't mean Paragon would or should. |
I want the same thing you all do, I want the game to thrive for many years to come.
I just honestly don't see how this is going to accomplish that or really much of anything.
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
Quote:
Standard Coding Rant, or something similar. IE, saying "it would be easy to code this" is usually about as true as saying "to make a fusion generator, you just need to get some hydrogen and make it really hot."
|
Originally Posted by Psyte
¿SCR?
|
Quote:
Who's ranting? Also to make a fusion generator...
|
Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
Standard Coding Rant, or something similar. IE, saying "it would be easy to code this" is usually about as true as saying "to make a fusion generator, you just need to get some hydrogen and make it really hot."
|
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
Quote:
Standard Code Rant. In short? Assuming you think you know how something might be done, or how difficult or easy it might be, or how much rote effort is involved, is a losing proposition. Even programmers get this wrong, because unless you actually work for the company in question, in the department in question, you neither know the technical constraints or procedural constraints that govern the environment in question.|
Originally Posted by Psyte
¿SCR?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Psyte
Keep in mind this is not final, and can, if not will, change by i21s launch and will evolve past then too. It might be a consideration, might have some dev support, but regardless its not yet announced as being an absolute yes or no... So don't rule it out, but do t count on it either. Just because other (but not all!) hybrids do it doesn't mean Paragon would or should.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
|
Quote:
I'll direct you to this list I made earlier today in this same thread, as that should answer most of the questions you have: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...58#post3712758|
Originally Posted by Hansha
This may have already been covered or this may be the wrong place to ask, but how will rewards earned as a VIP player transfer if you change to a free account? For example: I have a subscription now which will become a VIP account. if 3 months after CoH Freedom comes out I change to a free account, will I lose access to ATs, Powersets, or other content I had access to as a VIP and as a subscribing player? If I switch from a VIP account to a free account, but two patches have been released since CoH Freedom was released, do I lose content from those patches and have to buy it again? If someone starts with a free account, then becomes a VIP, then goes back to a free account, do they get to keep access to features released in patches from when they were a VIP, but not released before they were a VIP? Do people becoming VIPs after starting with free accounts get access to content that pre-dates CoH Freedom, and then loose it again when if they switch to free accounts?
Also, is it possible to upgrade a VIP account in preparation for it becoming a free account? Let's say I have a fantastic job which is paying me boat loads of money, but I'm afraid that at some point I won't have that fantastic job and won't be able to pay for a VIP account. Can I start buying access to ATs, powersets, mission content, and costume items that I currently have access to as a VIP player and then have them already unlocked for me once I switch to a free account for the first time without paying for them again? How many slots can we unlock for our free accounts? Do slots we unlocked during previous systems exceed that number? Do slots we got as veteran rewards exceed the maximum number of slots we can have on free accounts through slot purchase? What is the answer to life, the universe, and everything? |
I will answer a couple of your questions from the above post right here, though.
Anything you buy or earn will always stay with you if you go from VIP to Premium (you can't go VIP to Free--Free is just Premium with no perks yet, and you get at least 1 perk just for signing up for a month). There is one exception that we know about now: Incarnate powers and content will be locked out, but not deleted from your characters. Incarnate content is available to VIP subscribers only.
The stuff you keep just for being a VIP is determined by how long you maintain your VIP subscription. Positron has already chimed in that Masterminds and Controllers will be unlocked automatically--for free--on a Premium account if you have somewhere around 36 months of paid time under your belt. Otherwise, you can spend your Paragon Reward Tokens (the new replacement for the Veteran Reward program) on unlocking them. Or, you can pay a one-time fee to unlock them. Once they're unlocked on a Premium account, they're unlocked forever. Logic would imply that the same goes for other common features, such as access to Inventions, the auction houses, Supergroups, chat channels, etc., but so far the locked ATs are one of the things we have concrete developer comments on.
Now, it gets a little trickier when you start factoring in new content... the stuff that's releasing in Issue 21 and beyond. They've already said the new First Ward zone content can be purchased by Free/Premium account holders, but will be available for free if you're a VIP subscriber. I read that to mean that you lose access to the new stuff if you drop your subscription, and will therefore need to purchase it again via microtransaction if you plan to quit paying for good. (But that's just my interpretation on what I've read--I don't have any information that isn't equally accessible to everyone else reading the boards and the Facebook discussions, and I have yet to see an official comment about it.)
I would assume that the answer to the final question in paragraph one and leading in to paragraph two is yes; Free/Premium accounts will get access to everything that went in to City of Heroes prior to Issue 18/Going Rogue (and Premium accounts that already paid for the Going Rogue expansion should thus get all of that content automatically), minus some limitations on a few systems like Inventions, chat channels, Supergroups, etc. They will be able to purchase the individual features that interest them that doesn't come for free, such as side-switching, the new First Ward content, the new monthly Signature Story Arcs or anything I've mentioned previously--again, excluding Incarnate content, which will be for VIPs only.
As a VIP subscriber, you will earn 400 Paragon Points per month just for keeping your subscription active, as well as a Paragon Reward Token. You can use these to pay for any perks that interest you. The way I assume things will work is, you keep all of these tokens and points, even if your subscription drops... at which point you can spend them unlocking the content that you've lost access to (such as MMs/Trollers, Supergroups, First Ward missions, and other stuff listed above). And again, once you've earned or paid for a perk, it stays on your account forever.
With regards to your final questions about character slots on a free account, I'd like to point you to a post by Positron (which quotes a post from me >_>):
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...12#post3706712
The short version: Any slots you earned as a Veteran (1 per year), got with the purchase of the Going Rogue expansion (2 bonus) or purchased previously will be added to the base of 2 free characters on a Free/Premium account.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
Bah, beaten to the punch by Arcanaville. Curse my being at work. 
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
Quote:
And I had such faith in you too...
|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
Bah, beaten to the punch by Arcanaville. Curse my being at work.
|
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
Buxley - one of the things a Dungeon Runners dev noted is that a microtransaction store lets developers make more.money from subscribers. Now, DRs sub was a grant $5/month, so its not the same exactly as COH, but the sub cost represented a revenue cap per player. The booster packs, for instance, are additional revenue.if you buy three a year, that's $30 or $2.50/mo more.
The worry being presented is the 400 points a month is an attempt to get VIPs to spend even more, both in amount and regularity, and that the devs or NCSoft will attempt to abuse that via pricing to effectively raise the subscription rate without formally increasing the subscription rate. It has merit as a concern, so feedback is important in pricing, expectations what VIPs will and won't get, etc.
I'm personally happy with things as presented, but it is a reasonable concern. Voting with your wallet helps, but you can't really influence others to do the same nearly as well (is, orchestrated boycott), and I'd be afraid of it turning belligerent ("You bought that? Idiot! You're part of the problem!"). At this time i trust the game's management to not be abusive by my definition of that, but i cant say the same according to anyone elses' definitions, fears or metrics.
Quote:
Try from a smartphone! I got more typos than Atlas broadcast chatter!
|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
Bah, beaten to the punch by Arcanaville. Curse my being at work.
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)