Kinetic Melee Brute/Stalker/Scrapper
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2011-06-07 07:09 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Stalker.
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But why? Stalkers get BU versus PS so there is no building up of the damage buff. When CS crits it recharges BU just like it recharges PS for scrappers. This means you can slot Placate more and less on BU. As it currently stands, Burst also has a 100% chance to crit from Hide so even if it only has one AoE, it's a rather nice one.
Scrappers would be the next best, IMO. Brutes don't crit and they get less out of PS versus scrappers due to brutes getting more damage via from Fury. Tank would be an option since the -dmg makes a tank even sturdier and something like Ice/kin can stack -dmg powers and eventually build a character that has a ton of it if you go that route.
Yep, Stalker>Scrapper>Brute due to the reasons mentioned above.
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Although stalker has lower HP but I still went for Regen since I have never tried it before when KM first came out. Now I hope I had it with /Nin instead. Nevermind.
Stalkers? Really? Wow. I'm surprised.
So what Secondary works well for KM Stalkers?
Jeez, Stalkers? I can't believe it!
Well the better Stalker Secondaries are Ninjitsu,Willpower and Super Reflexes.
I'm strongly going to recommend Ninjitsu, as it's the only secondary designed specifically for Stalkers.
Although I'm sure someone else can explain specific set synergies if there are any.
Not to rain on the parade but I'm going to say that power siphon for scrappers is technically better than build up for stalkers unless you just hate the mechanic. However, among melee sets that were given the stalker treatment, kinetic melee arguably got the best deals of any of them. You not only get to keep your pbaoe but it always crits from hide, concentrated strike's crit instantly recharges build up, including its guaranteed hidden crit, and the set is just generally good for stalkers with its varied mitigation and split damage types. You can't go wrong with it on scrappers, or indeed brutes, but if you were thinking of playing a stalker you might as well make it KM.
Well, I'm thinking of making a Radioactive-themed character.
Messing with the customizations, I have a nice KM Rad effect. Secondaries, I was thinking Regen Scrapper...How is Regen for Stalkers?
Or KM/Invlun Scrapper/Brute. I threw Stalkers in just /cause they have it, as a joke. Didn't realize that KM seems to be awesome on Stalkers!
Eegh... Do you like to pvp? I hear stalker regen is okay for that. Otherwise, do not select regen, go directly to nin.
At this point, yeah, make it a stalker. You don't have to use ninjitsu but it's a good idea to use a defense secondary and ninjitsu is really cool.
All this talk has got me in a strange mood. I didn't realize I'd be making a stalker today.
Since you can use hide/placate to control when CS will auto rech BU, you can stack 2 BU into one AS, can't you? I heard someone talking about it, but haven't tried it myself.
Having leveled a 50 Kin/Dark Stalker, I can tell you Kinetic on Stalker is pretty darn good especially after they buffed Concentrated Strike to give 100% chance to refresh Build Up when it critical. This actually makes the set very fun because you are always doing math in your head to keep that build up alive (through placate, natural critical, etc).
Not only that, Burst (pbaoe attack) has 100% critical chance!
As for Scrapper/Brute, I have to say it's better on Scrapper because:
1. You finally have a real hard hitting attack like Total Focus (Concentrated Strike)
2. Power Siphon works better for Scrapper due to scrapper's higher base damage.
So, I would choose between Stalker VS Scrapper. Oh and I rarely use Assassin Strike now. It sucks.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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You can't stack Build Up twice but there are times you can score two Build Ups (using Concentrated Strike after placate gives you a chance to score two Critical). It just refreshes Build Up recharge twice... as far as I can tell. |
Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
Since you can use hide/placate to control when CS will auto rech BU, you can stack 2 BU into one AS, can't you? I heard someone talking about it, but haven't tried it myself.
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Concentrated Strike only recharges the timer. It doesn't give you a buff directly. You still need to click Build Up so scoring two criticals doesn't mean you get two BUs.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Exactly.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
among melee sets that were given the stalker treatment, kinetic melee arguably got the best deals of any of them.
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What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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It doesn't say anywhere that BU doesn't stack with the same caster, so as long as you Hit BU first, then use Concentrated Strike from hide, you can hit BU again, placate a target and activate AS within 8 sec of the 1st BU timer.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
You can't stack Build Up twice but there are times you can score two Build Ups (using Concentrated Strike after placate gives you a chance to score two Critical). It just refreshes Build Up recharge twice... as far as I can tell.
Concentrated Strike only recharges the timer. It doesn't give you a buff directly. You still need to click Build Up so scoring two criticals doesn't mean you get two BUs. |
It's all theoretical though, since I haven't actually played my Kin/EA stalker since the change. But I see no reason BU's effects wouldn't stack...and slot it with the BU proc for triple BU goodness
The downer is, you're ultimately doing less damage trying to do this. You could pump out more attacks and simply hit BU when it expires and do better DPS than trying to stack it then hit your longest activating ST attack for a big orange number. That said, I'd still do it because it's fun.
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Originally Posted by Antares_NA
Well, I'm thinking of making a Radioactive-themed character.
Messing with the customizations, I have a nice KM Rad effect. Secondaries, I was thinking Regen Scrapper...How is Regen for Stalkers? Or KM/Invlun Scrapper/Brute. I threw Stalkers in just /cause they have it, as a joke. Didn't realize that KM seems to be awesome on Stalkers! |
But, IMO, and built for team play and defense, you'll be more sturdy than any other Stalker if you go the DA route. You've got defense, a heal that tops you off, resistance, damage debuffs, controls and a self rez. If you need good defense, Shadow Meld is an option. If you need an 'oh s***' button, there's always Hibernate instead. And you can color your powers green for a radioactive feel.
[EDIT]Heck, even with a Scrapper, I'd probably say lean toward Kin/DA. It sounds like a super fun combo, IMO. And you still have the option of going Soul/Leviathan mastery for Shadow Meld/Hibernate.
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It works just the way you say. I have pulled off an AS with double Build Up a few times. I checked the real numbers and the second buff stacked; the big orange number was also bigger.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
It doesn't say anywhere that BU doesn't stack with the same caster, so as long as you Hit BU first, then use Concentrated Strike from hide, you can hit BU again, placate a target and activate AS within 8 sec of the 1st BU timer.
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I'd just like to chime in and say Brute Kinetic Melee is greatly underrated. KM/SR Brutes are really something to see. Better survivability from the -Damage component than either a Stalker or Scrapper gets and more damage than a Tanker gets.
Just something to think about.
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My theme/concept is Radiation and only /Invuln works for me. I think I'll do a Kin/Invuln Scrapper. I only have one Scrapper, but I'd like more.
I'm going to hold off making the character in case the Devs announce Rad/Rad soon-ish.
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Yep. Stalkers. |
Originally Posted by Antares_NA
Stalkers? Really? Wow. I'm surprised.
So what Secondary works well for KM Stalkers? Jeez, Stalkers? I can't believe it! |
Mine are both KM/WP and have turned out to be a heck of a lot of fun rather they're doing the solo thing or playing "sneaky scrapper" on teams. I've even taken the older of the two through the Incarnate system.
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There's certain cosmetic affects Scrappers get too. There's just something about being able to go CS > Repulsing Turrent > Smashing Blow > Focused Burst that is somewhat akin to fighting games like Street Fighter. The range seems slightly longer range than most melee based powers (ignoring Burst of course) and the speed of the animation slower than the effect makes it an exciting spectacle. |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
So, I would choose between Stalker VS Scrapper. Oh and I rarely use Assassin Strike now. It sucks.
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Personally I love AS, it's the first time I found myself using it without even being in hidden-mode for the lols. Especially if you trigger it during a knock back, they hit the ground, and you have Kinetic's IO proc in there. Chances of a knock-back are small of course in the proc but if the mob merely floats back and lands on their feet, if it shoots off it's pretty funny.
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You can stack build up, I do it all the time on my stalker. The real numbers thingie says 160% damage when I do this. You only have a very short period of time to do it in though.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
You can't stack Build Up twice but there are times you can score two Build Ups (using Concentrated Strike after placate gives you a chance to score two Critical). It just refreshes Build Up recharge twice... as far as I can tell.
Concentrated Strike only recharges the timer. It doesn't give you a buff directly. You still need to click Build Up so scoring two criticals doesn't mean you get two BUs. |
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Until I see some solid Brute times on the Pylon thread, KM is basically a set I will never play on a Brute.|
Originally Posted by Daemodand
I'd just like to chime in and say Brute Kinetic Melee is greatly underrated. KM/SR Brutes are really something to see. Better survivability from the -Damage component than either a Stalker or Scrapper gets and more damage than a Tanker gets.
Just something to think about. |
Not when sets like FM & DM are available. Or honestly, SS, or WM or even SM.
I can't justify the level of ST output (which I don't think is all that great, I'd love to be proven wrong) at the sacrifice of AoE damage.
DM already does that, and it does it with a Self Heal and an Endurance Recovery Tool.
FM does ST extremely well, doesn't require a ton of rech to get a solid Attack chain and has a better AoE.
-Damage is a nice debuff, but its kind of pointless at the endgame against Single Targets on an AT designed to eat aggro for groups.
As a Brute the only single targets you will really need to debuff with -Damage (AVs) have heavy resistance vs. the tiny amounts of -Damage you can apply as a melee character.
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I've landed a double-BU Assassin's Strike. The timing on it is tricky due to animation times, but it's fun to take large chunks out of bosses - and for real fun, since it requires Placate you can sometimes get the double critical on it, too. |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
You can't stack Build Up twice but there are times you can score two Build Ups (using Concentrated Strike after placate gives you a chance to score two Critical). It just refreshes Build Up recharge twice... as far as I can tell.
Concentrated Strike only recharges the timer. It doesn't give you a buff directly. You still need to click Build Up so scoring two criticals doesn't mean you get two BUs. |
Most of the time you're better off going for BU->CS->Placate->BU->Burst, since the +dam is keyed in at the start of the animation for Burst (or BU-CS-BU-Pl if you're worried about getting hit), and overall it's probably best to just keep the one BU going for longer, though, since the extra +dam usually isn't needed and stacking it means you have to wait for both Placate and CS. But it certainly can be done.
And yes, KM got a lot better for Stalkers simply by allowing CS's "crit" to happen the way it's supposed to. I personally went KM/EA because they just look like they should go together - and it would work for a "radiation" theme which seems to be the goal - although that pairing is going to get really slot-hungry when you have to slot both Energize and Energy Drain come i21 (instead of simply slotting Energy Drain and skipping Conserve Power).
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Despite what everyone else seems to say, Regen works very well for my Stalker. While there are occasional problems with AV alpha strikes, if you're careful you can avoid the one-shot kills. And with the two-shots, the time you take to back out of range and heal will often Hide you again, unless you're suffering DoT, so when you step back into the melee, you can hit hard with AS.|
Originally Posted by Antares_NA
Messing with the customizations, I have a nice KM Rad effect. Secondaries, I was thinking Regen Scrapper...How is Regen for Stalkers?
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Also, the fact that there's only 1 endurance draining toggle means you have a lot of staying power in protracted fights, even at low levels.
I like my KM Stalker since he has multiple options for hidden criticals - Concentrated Strike will recharge Build-Up, Burst has 100% Crit Rate from hide, and AS has the Kamehameha wind-up animation. It makes me feel like I'm playing a Scrapper with guaranteed critical when I want it.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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I went KM/EA for a stalker and I need to say EA really isn't that bad at all. There are changes coming for EA with Issue 21 too, so we will see how that goes.
Also, for the person comparing KM to Street Fighter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mWbeczOswI No, I did not create that character, but that is what AS looks like from KM.
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Okay, I know Stalker is probably meh...Except the Assassin Strike...
But what does KM work better on? Brute (Ramping up damage) or Scrapper (moar crits!)?
For example, Fire Melee on a Scrapper is godly (I have a FM/WP Scrapper).