Holy Incarnate Costs, Batman!
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2011-05-25 11:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Lottery, or a lot of time grinding. Pick one. Because having the top-crust stuff be both is unfair to the people who ground with you through trial after trial, but you got three Rares a day and they didnt. Sorry. Argue all day about how you view it as fair, I'll never see it as fair.
Lottery OR grind. Not both.
That's just being spiteful to people who are lucky.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Right now this problem is being spiteful to people who are not lucky.
Nope, that's not what spite means.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Intentional unkindness is most always spiteful.
Same effort [or more!] put into a task, the other person gets the reward and you don't? Spiteful.
Grind for days, weeks or months, other person[s] gets all the rares and you don't? Intentionally unkind = spiteful.
I have several people with rares, just sayin'.
Quote:
Pretty much how I've looked at the iTrials since they came out, granted I also started a new job that has really cut into my play time. But I was never in a "rush to keep up" either.
|
Originally Posted by BashfulBanshee
While I agree the Incarnates seems a bit of a grind I have come up with an alternative to running the Trials over and over and over again.
Just don't. WHenever something in the game becomes a grind for me I find somthing else to do. It is true that I only have 1 Tier 3 on one of my heroes but that is enough for me. Currently I am learning how to lead TF teams and that is fun for me. And no grinding either. Eventually I might get a Tier 4. Or maybe not but I am in no rush to get there. |
Quote:
You mean like how you have to spend hours farming those damn masks to get the accolade badge?
|
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
So, if I'm getting the overall reaction, a lot of folks are happy that this casual-friendly game is essentially telling the folks who would like to continue to play casually will never have the penultimate capabilities advertised. Casual players won't get the money required by these things. Casual players won't be hitting both Incarnate Trials (soon to be all three) every day, multiple times a day, to get the Empyrean Merits and different Randomly Rolled Reward Tables.
Frankly, I'm getting to the point where playing these Incarnate Trials over and over and over and over and over and over again is far beyond ludicrous. I keep losing my patience with them, especially when I get punted from the server because I decided to check my Incarnate Trees to see what salvage I need for my next recipe. I'm hoping that the future has more options available to players to unlock these things (namely, would it really be so wrong to have Shard recipes made for them?), because the current "Lottery" system is hair-rippingly aggravating. |
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
Quote:
The rare's really aren't that hard. Eight trials. Four days, and you have a rare.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
Cool, I actually never knew about that distinction. A lot of times, it's used interchangeably with ultimate.
Regardless of the fact, even the Tier 3's are difficult to acquire with the system as-is. The lottery system is... Suffice it to say, it's aggravating. There are players who are STILL complaining that they have yet to get a Very Rare table, and these are folks who complete the Trials regularly. And, yes, there are still folks who don't know how to do a Trial properly, so failing them is still a possibility. Now that's just plain rude. |
And that's NOT counting random rolls (which seems decent enough, I don't know the exact chance but it seems to be around 5-10%)
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
funny thing about luck. people who decry a system tend to almost always wind up being "unlucky" whereas people who are willing to give the system a go tend to not have these problems. makes you think something other than luck is at play, no? never been lucky myself, but on my 2 mains already at t3 on all 4 powers, before i even have 2 of them unlocked. now very rares really dont entice me to go for in the short term, so as long as you can get the level shifts, i consider the power at its expected peak.
Quote:
I would disagree. Rares are not any more costly than the tiers that come before them. They are only hard to get insomuch that you need to invest in both prior levels of Incarnate power to then move up. They are very much an attainable goal. As said above, it takes about a week to get a guaranteed rare, and in that time it's reasonably likely to get one randomly.|
Originally Posted by Vanden
Rare and Very Rare powers aren't meant for casual players.
|
However, I will agree that Very Rares are definitely not for casual players. They require more than twice the cost of getting a Rare - crafting the second Rare as well as procuring a Very Rare component.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
Does anyone remember the guy who was complaining that he was a casual player and couldn't purple out his warshade? Even the devs thought that was ridiculous. This was when warshades still required a level 50 character. If I recall correctly the guy who was doing the complaining had only been playing for a couple months, and already had a level 50 of something and a level 50 warshade that was IOed out (just not purpled). It was ridiculous because achieving that much that fast is pretty much the opposite definition of "casual player".
It's a simple fact that some things are just meant for the hardcore players who have lots of time to spend on the game. If everything was easy enough to get that the guy who only plays a couple hours a week could have it in a couple weeks, those hardcore players would have no goals to strive for because they would have gotten it all in a day or two.
Yes, Tier 4 abilities are expensive and/or time consuming. They are SUPPOSED to be. The tier 4 abilities are the hallmark of the hardcore player, that is exactly WHY they don't confer that much additional benefit.
If you have a character that got all their Incarnate slots to tier 4 within a few weeks, well, you can't really call yourself a casual player anymore, because getting to that point that fast means you played a LOT over those few weeks.
I wouldn't really care if they reduced the cost of crafting them, but complaining because they aren't easy to get is just ridiculous. Why should the highest level of power of the highest level abilities in the game be an easy thing to achieve? And futhermore, why should every single player in the game be entitled to those things without having to work towards them?
I'm in agreement with Arcanaville on this one. If they made tier 4 easier to get, it's all but guaranteed the devs would introduce a tier 5 that is hard to get, and if they made THAT easier to get, they'd introduce a tier 6.
Some things are just not meant for everyone in the game to have easy and equal access to them. If we WERE meant to have easy and equal access....well, they probably wouldn't have used the term VERY RARE to name them, now, would they?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I wouldn't give a damn if the bloody drop table wasn't random and arbitrary.
That and if MMs didn't get shafted by Praetorians anyway. But oh, theres a cure for that isnt there? I can just get the +2 level boosts! Of course! Durr!
But oh, to do that I need Rares. Hmm. How do I get them again? By grinding Raids until I'm lucky enough to get them?
...................
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Quote:
The BP Mask badge doesn't take NEARLY as long as running the Trials do.|
Originally Posted by Arilou
You mean like how you have to spend hours farming those damn masks to get the accolade badge?
|
A team of three or more can get the BP Mask by running one of Unai's missions about three times. Depending on your damage output, that's going to take only a few hours at most.
Not to mention the fact that you will INEVITABLY get the badge as soon as you kill all the Masks you need.
On the Trials, you can play just as much as anyone else and never get what you need.
As I've said before, I don't mind having to work for the shinies, but the Raids are so darn laggy that I just don't have fun.
Hopefully, the new content that's coming will make it easier for those of us who don't like or can't participate in the Trials on a regular basis to make progress for the shinies.
My COX Fanfiction:
Blue's Assembled Story Links
just let me trade my incarnate salvage 
Quote:
Even assuming the worst case scenario (you only roll commons) if you run the two trials a day (it should take about an hour) you'll have your rare component in four days (4 hours, although it probably takes a bit more time to set a team up) That's a GUARANTEED rare.|
Originally Posted by BlueBattler
The BP Mask badge doesn't take NEARLY as long as running the Trials do.
A team of three or more can get the BP Mask by running one of Unai's missions about three times. Depending on your damage output, that's going to take only a few hours at most. Not to mention the fact that you will INEVITABLY get the badge as soon as you kill all the Masks you need. On the Trials, you can play just as much as anyone else and never get what you need. As I've said before, I don't mind having to work for the shinies, but the Raids are so darn laggy that I just don't have fun. Hopefully, the new content that's coming will make it easier for those of us who don't like or can't participate in the Trials on a regular basis to make progress for the shinies. |
By that time you'll almost certainly have had enough threads and components for the other components you need.
The problem would probably be unlocking the IXP. But even that isn't that hard.
Four days, one our of playtime a day. That's not unreasoable. Yes, it's more than the mask-hunt (which took me about three hours) but again not unreasonably so.
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
Quote:
Empyreal merits are your friend.
|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I wouldn't give a damn if the bloody drop table wasn't random and arbitrary.
That and if MMs didn't get shafted by Praetorians anyway. But oh, theres a cure for that isnt there? I can just get the +2 level boosts! Of course! Durr! But oh, to do that I need Rares. Hmm. How do I get them again? By grinding Raids until I'm lucky enough to get them? ................... |
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
Quote:
Except now your need the merits to buy your costume pieces, auras, emotes, etc.
|
Originally Posted by Arilou
Empyreal merits are your friend.
|
Quote:
So? If you'd rather get something else than your rare, that's not my (or the dev's) problem is it?
|
Originally Posted by Suzumebachi
Except now your need the merits to buy your costume pieces, auras, emotes, etc.
|
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
Quote:
I think you overlooked the part where the Trials are laggy and therefore unfun. (Also disconnect-happy, for me.) There's a grind and then there's a griiiiiind.|
Originally Posted by Arilou
Even assuming the worst case scenario (you only roll commons) if you run the two trials a day (it should take about an hour) you'll have your rare component in four days (4 hours, although it probably takes a bit more time to set a team up) That's a GUARANTEED rare.
By that time you'll almost certainly have had enough threads and components for the other components you need. The problem would probably be unlocking the IXP. But even that isn't that hard. Four days, one our of playtime a day. That's not unreasoable. Yes, it's more than the mask-hunt (which took me about three hours) but again not unreasonably so. |
Also, there's no way I'd ever earn enough Influence without resorting to farming AE missions. Across all of my characters, I probably have 500 million. At best. That barely gets me in the door.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Quote:
Oh, dear, Arcanaville. What have you done? I am now going to imagine Mother Mayhem posing and gesticulating, coming just shy of puncturing her ... assets on that impressive belt buckle, when I read your posts.
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
There's absolutely no excuse for not taking the time to check with a dictionary, forum search for articles, google search background topics, consult with an oracle, and boil a pot of tea to read the leaves to triple check your post -if- -you- -have- -that- -kind- -of- -time- -at- -your- -disposal-.
|
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
0% for me after 9 or 10 trials. I *want* to participate, but I just feel like I'm unable to. I've never had good luck with drops, ever. Not with the costume drops back in the day, or Purples today, or with anything Incarnate-related. Getting booted 3-4 times per trial is just annoying. Eventually I give up trying to log back on. I've given up playing the trials altogether. I don't care if Tier 4s are very difficult to get for hardcore players -- as a casual player, I'm finding it impossible to even get the first thing slotted.
|
Originally Posted by Arilou
The rare's really aren't that hard. Eight trials. Four days, and you have a rare.
And that's NOT counting random rolls (which seems decent enough, I don't know the exact chance but it seems to be around 5-10%) |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Quote:
I hear this a lot but it doesn't cost any influence at all to buy a rare (or very rare) with E-Merits. You just need to save them. A rare only costs 8 - 4 days running the trials successfully once each. For all 4 slots that's 16 days.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
Also, there's no way I'd ever earn enough Influence without resorting to farming AE missions. Across all of my characters, I probably have 500 million. At best. That barely gets me in the door.
|
Very Rare takes a lot longer to get with E-Merits alone but I'm content with my tier 3's so I'm not worrying about it.
That's assuming you can get on a trial. The last few times I've been in the mood none were running.
Disclaimer - none of the 7 tier 3's I've made on 3 incarnates were made with E-Merits since I've been fairly lucky with rare drops. Usually by the time I unlock a slot I can immediately put a T3 in it. I've only had 1 v-rare and have no plans at the moment to do anything with it.
Quote:
Limited to masters runs? So, screw over Lambda... and regulate BAF to pure luck, mostly.
|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
If they're truly meant to be a "long term goal" then they shouldn't be part of the random reward table at all, or at least limited to very successful trials, such as full Master runs. Either they're a long-term goal or they're a lottery win. Pick one.
|
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Quote:
I can't agree more with this. Reaching tier 4 on all Incarnate abilities is essentially equivalent to 'purpling out' a character with IO's. It is a process that requires a significant amount of time, effort and/or influence. It is not intended to be something that can be casually achieved overnight. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Does anyone remember the guy who was complaining that he was a casual player and couldn't purple out his warshade? Even the devs thought that was ridiculous. This was when warshades still required a level 50 character. If I recall correctly the guy who was doing the complaining had only been playing for a couple months, and already had a level 50 of something and a level 50 warshade that was IOed out (just not purpled). It was ridiculous because achieving that much that fast is pretty much the opposite definition of "casual player".
It's a simple fact that some things are just meant for the hardcore players who have lots of time to spend on the game. If everything was easy enough to get that the guy who only plays a couple hours a week could have it in a couple weeks, those hardcore players would have no goals to strive for because they would have gotten it all in a day or two. Yes, Tier 4 abilities are expensive and/or time consuming. They are SUPPOSED to be. The tier 4 abilities are the hallmark of the hardcore player, that is exactly WHY they don't confer that much additional benefit. If you have a character that got all their Incarnate slots to tier 4 within a few weeks, well, you can't really call yourself a casual player anymore, because getting to that point that fast means you played a LOT over those few weeks. I wouldn't really care if they reduced the cost of crafting them, but complaining because they aren't easy to get is just ridiculous. Why should the highest level of power of the highest level abilities in the game be an easy thing to achieve? And futhermore, why should every single player in the game be entitled to those things without having to work towards them? I'm in agreement with Arcanaville on this one. If they made tier 4 easier to get, it's all but guaranteed the devs would introduce a tier 5 that is hard to get, and if they made THAT easier to get, they'd introduce a tier 6. Some things are just not meant for everyone in the game to have easy and equal access to them. If we WERE meant to have easy and equal access....well, they probably wouldn't have used the term VERY RARE to name them, now, would they? |
Anyone complaining about not being able to reach tier 4 in a couple weeks, on even one character, let alone all their 50's, has unrealistic expectations. Any fault for this rests solely with the player, not with the development team.
It's not rude, it's the truth. Think about it. Either the devs are morons who designed a fun game by accident and genuinely don't know that some people don't have time to get the best stuff, or they intended them to be something that takes a significant time investment to achieve. Which is more likely?
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.