What do you want from the next incarnate abilities?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-05-17 11:11 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I just had visions of the Cripple-Tron from Family Guy...lol.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Also something for masterminds to gain the ability have their pets merge into a gestalt.
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I would like to see super-damage DOT aura, click and it starts out just chewing threw stuff at a higher rate than burn for 7-10 seconds and fades like the rest of the incarnate powers to about the same damage/rate as a typical aura. Could be fire, ice, radiation, etc, with their respective secondary effects.
Build-your-own would be full of win.
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
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me neither
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Originally Posted by DocPhotonic
I wouldn't mind one the the new incarnate abilities be more enhancement slots for your build. Nope, I wouldn't mind that at all.
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I feel that a breakdown of each name of the ipowers would help.
(A) Alpha: definition- 1. The first; beginning.
2. The first in a series of related items: frequently used in chemistry and physics.
If you look at these two definitions you see that it literally means the first in a series of items.
So it makes sense in this regard, it's the first "slot" in a series of slots and is a good way to "start" a set of buffs.
(B) Judgement: definition- 1. The ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively, authoritatively, and wisely, especially in matters affecting action; good sense; discretion: a man of sound judgment.
2. The demonstration or exercise of such ability or capacity.
The second one again I think says it best. Judgement to me is suppose to show that you have the ability to show your decision.
Again makes sense to have a nuke here to show you will not show mercy to your enemies.
(C) Interface: definition- 1. A thing or circumstance that enables separate and sometimes incompatible elements to coordinate effectively.
Nothing to add here. 
Couldn't have said it any better myself.
(D) Destiny:
This one is kind of hard to justify, but my understanding was you were always meant to help out your follow man as well as share your strength with them.
(E) Lore: definition- The body of knowledge, especially of a traditional, anecdotal, or popular nature, on a particular subject.
What better way to share the knowledge than give you the things that make up the lore. Experience them first hand by using a lesser form.
Now on the slots that we know nothing about I can only guess, but I have a pretty good idea what they could be.
(F) Hybrid: definition- The crossing of two things that originally weren't like.
This one is hard seeing as how interface is a lot like this. So my guess is pretty weak, but I'll bet it'll have some sort of additive effect of giving all your damaging powers a secondary effect like range/knockback those kind of effects. Or perhaps some extra damage type kind of like swap ammo, but still have all your normal damage too.
(G) Genesis: definition- an origin, creation, or beginning.
Something to do with creation or an origin huh? This could be our first slot that has more than 4 trees when it is released. I wont say it will be origin only trees, but maybe each tree will have something regarding to each origin. Kind of like our SOs and DOs and what-not.
(H) Vitae:
There was no solid definition of this word, but it comes from a Latin word that means life, so my guess is going to be a auto power that raises HP, Endo, resistence, or def. Depending of whatever tree you choose.
(I) Mind:
No definition needed here, it may have something to do with your mind, like a auto mez pro, or maybe like what others were saying with some sort of environment QoL thing for kicks 'n giggles.
(J) Omega:
Meaning the End of all.
My guess is they want to do out in a BIG bang so the most exciting but not game breaking thing would be what EmperorSteele was saying and what makes me think this is what was said in a UStream cast from one of the devs.
Thats my take on them.
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Your control power idea, i've seen bosses be held. I say a hold powerful enough to hold an AV. But with large recharge. |
Originally Posted by Rapthorn
These are just ideas I have thought of:
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things I would like to see:
- Very powerful single target or AoE hold
- A IMPRESSIVELY powerful melee attack
- Call reinforcements: Heroes summon blueside AV or Villians summon Red Side AV. Similar to lore
- We have Team Heal/Recovery/Defense+Resistance/mez protection but we don't have a group sides power for +recharge/Accuracy/Damage buffs! That would be helpful!
- Suggestion: Self divide style power (high recharge, similar to trapdoor's power from the Alpha slot Arc)
- And based on Voltage's remark of the Vitae Slot, my guess would be a Self rez power of some sort
Anything other than more pet powers. I want my character to actually be a man by taking damage and dishing it out, instead of being a woosy and calling for help.
To NOT do the same 2 missions
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
Just to unlock 2 new powers.
These Incarnates have killed the rest of the game. Your either farming or doing incarnates.
Its a cool system if you have 1 or 2 or even 3 level 50s. But when you have 16 and I imagine people are running 2 accounts how many they have. It can be very painful.
They might as well put in a mission where I have to go kill 10 wolves and bring back the furs for a sword or something. When the game first came out they bragged how they didn't do these type of things. Sadly it seems they do now.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
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Very true! It makes me think of the misison arc required to enter the Midnighter's club. Like where I had to get all of that salvage to make the "lost curing wand" Imagine if they had an incarnate contact that had some arcs like that.
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Originally Posted by plainguy
To NOT do the same 2 missions
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Just to unlock 2 new powers. These Incarnates have killed the rest of the game. Your either farming or doing incarnates. Its a cool system if you have 1 or 2 or even 3 level 50s. But when you have 16 and I imagine people are running 2 accounts how many they have. It can be very painful. They might as well put in a mission where I have to go kill 10 wolves and bring back the furs for a sword or something. When the game first came out they bragged how they didn't do these type of things. Sadly it seems they do now. |
I hope that one of the slots is an epic travel power.. Realistically, map travel. Click a spot on the map, and bam, you're there! Unrealistically, vehicles.. Who wants an incarnate mobile!?
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If its a tank like the ones driving around rwz but with real guns I want one |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I hope that one of the slots is an epic travel power.. Realistically, map travel. Click a spot on the map, and bam, you're there! Unrealistically, vehicles.. Who wants an incarnate mobile!?
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Then only incarnate-out 1 or 2 or 3 50's? When it stops being fun, stop doing it. I've only incarnated 1 character and the whole system is still fresh and fun to me.
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Originally Posted by plainguy
To NOT do the same 2 missions
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Just to unlock 2 new powers. These Incarnates have killed the rest of the game. Your either farming or doing incarnates. Its a cool system if you have 1 or 2 or even 3 level 50s. But when you have 16 and I imagine people are running 2 accounts how many they have. It can be very painful. They might as well put in a mission where I have to go kill 10 wolves and bring back the furs for a sword or something. When the game first came out they bragged how they didn't do these type of things. Sadly it seems they do now. |
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I'm at 5 atm and I have stopped. |
Originally Posted by Shadowclone
Then only incarnate-out 1 or 2 or 3 50's? When it stops being fun, stop doing it. I've only incarnated 1 character and the whole system is still fresh and fun to me.
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I really only need the Alpha slots. Only some of my toons have T4. But funny enough I do have toons that have Very Rare drops that literally got them on their first missions that I still need to unlock the power. When I get a Very Rare I always gear towards the level shift power as I noticed it really helps out when doing these incarnates. But again your caught in that conundrum. You have the item but you still need to unlock the power, but your sick of running these missions already. If I could trade them within my own toons I would just give it to the unlocked toons already and call it a day.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
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I'm not. If you're doing that, its by choice.|
Originally Posted by plainguy
These Incarnates have killed the rest of the game. Your either farming or doing incarnates.
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As to what I want from the next incarnate slots, I'd like less actual click powers and more character differentiators. There's four different Judgment powers, but the bottom line is it gives everyone a gigantic AoE. Its far more homogenizing than differentiating in a capabilities-sense: its more cosmetically diffrerentiating.
There are lots of things you could play around with. For example, the Vitae slot could muck with archetype-specific attribute caps. Suppose that tankers had the ability to increase their res max or their health max by small amounts with different Vitae powers. But blasters would have options like damage cap increase. You'd need to come up with a carefully designed matrix of stuff for people to mess with and carefully control the buffs. Maybe tankers get health max and res max, brutes get res max and damage max, and blasters get damage max and movement caps, just for example purposes. How you make enough options to fill at least four trees of Vitae powers per archetype I'm not sure yet.
But I DO NOT want something like this to allow for any buff for any character. I don't want blasters buffing health and res max and turning into pocket tankers. That's the exact *opposite* of what I want to see in future slots. We have five slots where everyone can take the same things and homogenize capability. I'd like to see at least *some* future slots have abilities that *amplify* the differences between different archetypes, powersets, and powers rather than mute them. Sometimes you can get away with giving everyone the same thing, and sometimes not. I'm not sure if there's enough cleverness to allow everyone to slot the same Vitae powers that buff archetype attribute limits and have it not be homogenizing. For example, you could make a Vitae power buff resmax by 3 percentage points. So that would push blasters to 78 and tankers to 93. Clearly, that's a more desirable and powerful buff for the tanker. But health cap is trickier and Damage cap is trickier both because they are more linear benefit effects.
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I agree. I actually thought Incarnate abilities should be more powerset-specific but I know that is just going to take too long and too much effort to balance. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm not. If you're doing that, its by choice.
As to what I want from the next incarnate slots, I'd like less actual click powers and more character differentiators. There's four different Judgment powers, but the bottom line is it gives everyone a gigantic AoE. Its far more homogenizing than differentiating in a capabilities-sense: its more cosmetically diffrerentiating. There are lots of things you could play around with. For example, the Vitae slot could muck with archetype-specific attribute caps. Suppose that tankers had the ability to increase their res max or their health max by small amounts with different Vitae powers. But blasters would have options like damage cap increase. You'd need to come up with a carefully designed matrix of stuff for people to mess with and carefully control the buffs. Maybe tankers get health max and res max, brutes get res max and damage max, and blasters get damage max and movement caps, just for example purposes. How you make enough options to fill at least four trees of Vitae powers per archetype I'm not sure yet. But I DO NOT want something like this to allow for any buff for any character. I don't want blasters buffing health and res max and turning into pocket tankers. That's the exact *opposite* of what I want to see in future slots. We have five slots where everyone can take the same things and homogenize capability. I'd like to see at least *some* future slots have abilities that *amplify* the differences between different archetypes, powersets, and powers rather than mute them. Sometimes you can get away with giving everyone the same thing, and sometimes not. I'm not sure if there's enough cleverness to allow everyone to slot the same Vitae powers that buff archetype attribute limits and have it not be homogenizing. For example, you could make a Vitae power buff resmax by 3 percentage points. So that would push blasters to 78 and tankers to 93. Clearly, that's a more desirable and powerful buff for the tanker. But health cap is trickier and Damage cap is trickier both because they are more linear benefit effects. |
I was thinking along the line of, for example, buffing Life Drain in Dark Blast to deal more damage and draining more health from the target. This buff must come from equipping an Incarnate ability. This makes Dark Blast even more "vampiric like". I know this is too much work but I think it's more fun for powersets to "grow" into something more unique than picking a Judgement power that every character can get.
I've been asking for a buff on VS in Electricity Blast. A neat idea for an Incarnate Electricity Blast user is to give VS a "Chain of Lightning" attack so VS pet will have two attacks that make it a lot more desirable since the pet doesn't benefit from set bonuses. Or simply adding a small chance that each electricity blast can "jump" to a nearby target. When you equip the ability, it gives you a proc chance. This is a good way to make certain not-so-popular sets more interesting and those that are leveling have something more to look forward to. If I know my Electricity Blast can have a chance to "Jump" when I become an Incarnate, I'll certainly level him up!
However, I know improving individual powerset is not going to happen so I guess the most "unique" we can get is having a specific AT-oriented Incarnate ability like the one you've suggested. This could be a good way to make certain ATs more desirable on a large team too (IE: Stalkers!!!!!!!). Maybe by equipping an Incarnate ability, your Assassin Strike can no longer be Interrupted and its damage scale goes up more? :P
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Oh and please give us better conversion from Shards to Threads so we don't feel like we are forced to do the trials.
I really like the Shard system when Weekly Targets were introduced. It was very "healthy" for the game as each week we have something to look forward to. But now there are a lot less people doing weekly because by doing just a few trials, you can unlock Alpha way faster than trying to get Shards. 
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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All kidding aside, this is something I would like to see. Some sort of epic build up power as one of the next incarnate powers.
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Originally Posted by Hatred666
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Sure. Except by the time you are done, the mission is over. |
Originally Posted by Hatred666
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Hmmm . . . how about a travel power that damages, like shield charge or lightning rod, but includes the other travel modes as well. Like:
- Jump high into the air and crash down on your enemies, shaking the ground.
- Swoop down from above strafing energy from your fists.
- Super speed (with Neuron after image effects) and spin around throwing punches or energy.
Or maybe some knock back/down/up powers with extreme effects like punching someone into low orbit or over a tall building.
A couple of things I have always wanted as a power:
- A giant fist that grabs an enemy and deals damage over time. So it's a hold and a DoT. If we can color it and/or give it effects (fire, ice, electricity, gaseous) it could work with just about anything.
- A "reverse force bubble" to push a large group in towards you, also customizable.
- A combination of those two, which would be an object, like a fist or a wall, that repels enemies. Basically telekinesis with a viable graphic.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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Grow hair and lose eyebrows? I'll pass.
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Originally Posted by Hatred666
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Well, they could have made them just use threads encouraging level 50s to be played in the entire range of game content. Instead, they incentivized them to only play these two trials over and over. Do you want to do a STF? No, thank you, that doesn't get me any closer to my shineys.
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Originally Posted by plainguy
To NOT do the same 2 missions
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Just to unlock 2 new powers. These Incarnates have killed the rest of the game. Your either farming or doing incarnates. Its a cool system if you have 1 or 2 or even 3 level 50s. But when you have 16 and I imagine people are running 2 accounts how many they have. It can be very painful. They might as well put in a mission where I have to go kill 10 wolves and bring back the furs for a sword or something. When the game first came out they bragged how they didn't do these type of things. Sadly it seems they do now. |
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It doesn't necessarily have to take 6 minutes.
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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
Sure. Except by the time you are done, the mission is over.
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When it's the WST it does.
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Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO
Well, they could have made them just use threads encouraging level 50s to be played in the entire range of game content. Instead, they incentivized them to only play these two trials over and over. Do you want to do a STF? No, thank you, that doesn't get me any closer to my shineys.
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
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Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Bigby's Pwning Fist?
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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
A giant fist that grabs an enemy and deals damage over time. So it's a hold and a DoT. If we can color it and/or give it effects (fire, ice, electricity, gaseous) it could work with just about anything.
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That blue thing running around saying "Cookies are sometimes food" is Praetorian Cookie Monster!
Shoot on sight, please.
I have a fairly awesome idea for hybrid that I'm working on all the way up to VR I know it's unrealistic but I want to share it anyways, alas the text document it's in is at home so when I go home I'll dredge it up, finish it up, and post it up
I got a crazy idea for what hybrid could never entail but be awesome anyways
Combining powers into 1 power
T1 A power already available to you that you skipped uneffected by buffs outside of alpha
I.E you skipped your APP snipe
T2 Core: T1 combined with a power you do have
so now you can combine your app snipe with soaring dragon taking the best aspects of both shortest activation, biggest arc, greatest target cap, greatest damage
T2 Radial:T1 combined with another power
ie. if you skipped thunderstrike and tripmine you can combine both getting the damage and effects of both at the cost of having the highest animation, endurance cost, and recharge of the two
T3 Total Radial: T2 Radial but with the lowest costs of the two
T3 Partial Radial: T2 Radial with all the costs but effected by global buffs
T3 Total Core: T2 Core but the enhncement values of the 1 power you do have carry over and its also effected by global buffs still limited to the best of both worlds
T3 Partial Core: T2 Core + 1 more ability you have available, effected by global buffs
T4 Immaculate Core: T3 partial Core + 100% enhancement to all aspects and effected by global buffs
T4 Sacrificial Radial: Now for something completely different, combine a normal non-incarnate ability you have with an incarnate ability you have
Ex. Combine Tier 3 MM pet with a Lore Lt. Pet
Benefit? Combined pet has all the powers of both including defenses, resistences and Lore power if applicable, the combined hp and is summoned at lvl 50 before incarnate shifts and does not go away until you zone. Can only be used whenever Lore Lt. and T3 summon is in play and when activated sacrifices both. The T3 won't be able to be resummoned until the combined pet is defeated or dismissed *T3 slotting carries over, and combined form is still effected by outside buffs
Way I see it their would be a Pet path, Melee/Pbaoe path, Melee/range path, and a buff/melee path as you can see the desriptions are for options for various paths and not neccessarily universal. I have no idea how it would all get coded in but I'd lonely island my pants if something like this ever came into fruition
Glad to get that out of me
Add my vote up to that doppelganger/past self clone idea. Really interesting, much more than a gigantic AoE buff, at least. Double my vote if it has the control functions of the mastermind pets (still don't understand why we don't get that for the other pets).
Beside that, a 'slow down time' ability sounds pretty cool.
I have to back up the idea that if none of the new abilities are somewhat passive, the tray bar is going to be filled quickly and it'll be really annoying to manage a dozen 'situational' abilities. That being said, don't make them all passive.
The last thing that comes to mind is something related to the specific archetype chosen by the player. Say a mastermind gets something related to his pets, but I don't have any other examples for the other ATs, my brain is about to go down.