The New Trials and Incarnates
By
Arbegla,
Posted on: 2011-04-22 16:30 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Sorry you don't find giant killer robots, an evil Incarnate-charged Tanker, one of the most powerful heroes in Paragon, and the invasion and destruction of Skyway, to be epic.
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Oh no that is quite ok. No need to apologize. It wasn't your fault. |
Originally Posted by Inazuma
Sorry you don't find giant killer robots, an evil Incarnate-charged Tanker, one of the most powerful heroes in Paragon, and the invasion and destruction of Skyway, to be epic.
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On top of not requiring you to apologize, allow me to clarify my post. I am obviously not very bright and I have come across one our generations most brilliant individuals in you. So, obviously, I have I did not make my point.
My concern is stopping a science lab and weapons depot is a significant enough event to unlock our god-like powers. Sure, we battle giant robots and some AVs but the actual event is stopping a weapons depot and a experimentation facility with the subjects escaping.
The Sutter TF is to stop yet another wave of the Goatees from invading Primal Earth. The environment is kinda blah and not too exciting. The SF just seems like something underwhelming.
Again, I humbly apologize for having my own thoughts and opinions. I don't know what I was thinking. I clearly must not have a fully developed brain...how could I...I made a comment that did not agree with yours. What a fool I am. Me so sad
I understand your pain, Jaz. I mean I understand the Devs want build up to our fight with Tyrant, but this is feeling a little stretched out, about the only plotline that was more stretched out was the "Return of the 5th Column", foreshadowed by issues 11, 12, and finally fully realized in 15 (with issues 13 and 14 being sort of a skip, given how they were mostly mechanics advancements), of course, in the case of 11, this return wasn't the entirety of the issue.
Thus far, we've had 3 issues dedicated to the Praetoria thing, and it seems more are planned in the chute, so sadly, even if it doesn't feel like the best thing, it's how it is and how it will be.
Edit: and I just remembered that issue 17 also alluded to the coming of Praetoria.
Admittedly, Arachnos kind of got 3 issues dedicated to them, counting City of Villains launch.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Honestly I'm not a big fan of the Incarnate storyline either (or the system itself, but that's a whole other topic).
I just wish the Devs had come up with something bigger than Statesman's naughty twin from a parallel Earth as the impetus behind the Well of the Furies deciding it was time to start granting Incarnate powers to every hero that can swing an enhancement. The Coming Storm would have been a much better choice in my opinion. Or heck, even a Shadow Shard revamp and the return of a highly aggravated Rularuu. The Shadow Shard just screams end game material.
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Originally Posted by TheJazMan
Anyway, it just seems like a lot of the creativity is lost lately and these new things seem to be almost an afterthought (especially the Sutter and Kal).
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The two new TFs are among the best stuff this game has to offer imo. They're varied, well constructed gameplay wise and internally consistent storywise. I like how they flow from one mission into another, with each mission being clearly different from the previous.
And how is fighting on a battle ship fleet and taking on a giant floating fortress or making a powerfull mage your b**** while competing with various villain groups and taking on one of the most powerful heroes alive on his own turf and completely annihilating the lot of them not epic?
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
well jaz, as has been a constant over the years, i disagree with you. the warworks robots are certainly epic in scope by my definition, and while the tasks may or may not fit some definitions of epic, the enemies we fight certainly are epic in scope, furthermore, the issue has added an additional dimension to the equation, now my character is more epic, between massive debuffs, armies of robots, crazy aoe buffs and massive blasts, i think that the content as certainly had as close to an epic feel as i have seen in a non scripted event in a video game. plus we already know that in the next run of trials, we will be taking on the praetorian hamidon, a bretty large confrontation from the lore's perspective.
basically praetoria is building up to a climax, those who dislike it arent going to like it, those who do will continue to enjoy it. as per Prometheus, the coming storm is still looming, so we will likely see some new thematic direction soon, but like any comic book that is doing a continuing storyline, it takes time to finish up.
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No, it isn't. If we stopped them we'd have no reason to do it 30 more times. The actual event is stalling a weapons depot and an experimentation facility.|
Originally Posted by TheJazMan
My concern is stopping a science lab and weapons depot is a significant enough event to unlock our god-like powers. Sure, we battle giant robots and some AVs but the actual event is stopping a weapons depot and a experimentation facility with the subjects escaping.
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
The two new TFs are among the best stuff this game has to offer imo. They're varied, well constructed gameplay wise and internally consistent storywise. I like how they flow from one mission into another, with each mission being clearly different from the previous. |
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Not only are you just stalling a weapons depot and an experimentation facility, but it takes between 8 and 24 people at various levels of godhood to even accomplish these slight delays.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
No, it isn't. If we stopped them we'd have no reason to do it 30 more times. The actual event is stalling a weapons depot and an experimentation facility.
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Well I do agree with you in the point where stories need to be concluded/continued. However, CoX issues don't come out too quickly so it can't be at the same pace as a most comics. They should really move the shorter plots along a lot quicker but that's just me.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
well jaz, as has been a constant over the years, i disagree with you. the warworks robots are certainly epic in scope by my definition, and while the tasks may or may not fit some definitions of epic, the enemies we fight certainly are epic in scope, furthermore, the issue has added an additional dimension to the equation, now my character is more epic, between massive debuffs, armies of robots, crazy aoe buffs and massive blasts, i think that the content as certainly had as close to an epic feel as i have seen in a non scripted event in a video game. plus we already know that in the next run of trials, we will be taking on the praetorian hamidon, a bretty large confrontation from the lore's perspective.
basically praetoria is building up to a climax, those who dislike it arent going to like it, those who do will continue to enjoy it. as per Prometheus, the coming storm is still looming, so we will likely see some new thematic direction soon, but like any comic book that is doing a continuing storyline, it takes time to finish up. |
I do like a lot of the new content but when you get slammed with the same stuff over and over...well...it tends to lose it's appeal. Too much Praetoria and not enough epic, IMO
Maybe, down the road, we can have world saving events/other factions unlock our slots. Enough with the Praetoria stuff
I know there are a couple of other trials coming with Prae but after that I hope we can have some other stuff.
I do get your point.
Afterall our high level content before was Stopping Recluse, Stopping Nemesis, Deafting Hamidon & some alien invaders and it was all very "this is the big bad, beat up his sidekicks then beat him up"
So I guess we have to think of the trials as one really long TF.
"This is the big bad, oh hes planning on blaming us for releasing prisoners, turning the entire super powered population of another dimension against us, better stop this and beat on a few of his sidekicks... and now we can go fight him...
...oh no, hes got a super serum that will turn those loyal to him into super toughies, best go stop that before it gets out of hand, and nwo we can fight him, oh no wait..."
I guess they are teasing out the big stuff for the end. though rumour has it Preatorian Hamidon will be one of our next targets.
And think of the new powers not as rewards for completing what we are doing, but as rewards from the well for punching above our weight.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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Reading stuff like this makes me wonder what people are expecting, exactly. We're playing a MMO, you know? An old MMO. People need to remember that. What you're complaining about is the basic gameplay this game is built around. That's not going to change. |
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Sutter is overdesigned and Kal has too much TL;DR for team content. The design of Kal is ok though, except for that unnecessary Odysseus mission and the final cutscene. It has enough unique encounters to keep it from being boring, but not so many that the entire TF is nothing but unique encounters. Sutter though...every fight is scripted. After a while it becomes as tiresome as trudging through a warehouse full of guys standing around pounding their fists.
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Everyone seems to be expecting some in depth next gen gaming experience that revolutionises how this game works and then are surprised when they end up dissapointed.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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The Coming Storm is the reason the Well has chosen Tyrant as its champion - it's the reason its "woken up" now.|
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
I just wish the Devs had come up with something bigger than Statesman's naughty twin from a parallel Earth as the impetus behind the Well of the Furies deciding it was time to start granting Incarnate powers to every hero that can swing an enhancement. The Coming Storm would have been a much better choice in my opinion.
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It's chosen Tyrant to protect it and the multiverse from the Coming Storm, and it's up to us to prove to the Well that we're stonger than Tyrant, and would be a better bet against the Coming Storm.
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Originally Posted by JKedan
Not only are you just stalling a weapons depot and an experimentation facility, but it takes between 8 and 24 people at various levels of godhood to even accomplish these slight delays.
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Originally Posted by TheJazMan
Maybe, down the road, we can have world saving events/other factions unlock our slots. Enough with the Praetoria stuff
I know there are a couple of other trials coming with Prae but after that I hope we can have some other stuff. |
Once we've defeated Tyrant and the loyalists, we'll have enough power, and have used it in the right way to show the Well that we're the ones who are the most suitable champions to protect the multiverse from the Comign Storm.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Which takes us back to my original statement: I just don't like that story line. It's a matter of personal preference I suppose. I'm one of the folks that took exception to the Incarnate pets (Lore slot I think?) all being Praetorian mobs. I know that a lot of people really like the Incarnate stuff, and I'm happy the Devs are making them happy. I just don't care for any of it, from the lore all the way up to the mechanics of the system.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The Coming Storm is the reason the Well has chosen Tyrant as its champion - it's the reason its "woken up" now.
It's chosen Tyrant to protect it and the multiverse from the Coming Storm, and it's up to us to prove to the Well that we're stonger than Tyrant, and would be a better bet against the Coming Storm. |
It's a good thing I like making new characters and leveling them up. Otherwise CoH would be pretty dull for me right now.
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Not duller than the previous 19 issue I imagine.
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Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
It's a good thing I like making new characters and leveling them up. Otherwise CoH would be pretty dull for me right now. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Honestly what are you trying to say here?|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
Not duller than the previous 19 issue I imagine.
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Right now, the vast majority of people are doing content I actively avoid (the Incarnate Trials). The number of folks leveling new characters is (on my server, at least), lower than I've ever seen it. Hence my statement.
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Sorry, that's just fanwank. "The Coming Storm" is just this background macguffin that even the developers don't have a handle on. Given what we've gotten about it so far it's obviously less significant than "the plan" the Cylons were supposed to have in Battlestar Galactica, which turned out to be (in hindsight) "nuke the colonies and kill everyone".| The Coming Storm is the reason the Well has chosen Tyrant as its champion - it's the reason its "woken up" now. |
As for the Sutter TF I found it to be a complete Michael Bay production: $250 million spent on scenery and FX, $0.89 on the script.
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Even when it's very strongly hinted at by a dev? |
Originally Posted by Venture
Sorry, that's just fanwank.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I'm just saying that nothing changed. Everything from the previous issues is still around. So you can still go on enjoy doing what you enjoyed before. |
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
Honestly what are you trying to say here?
Right now, the vast majority of people are doing content I actively avoid (the Incarnate Trials). The number of folks leveling new characters is (on my server, at least), lower than I've ever seen it. Hence my statement. |
Only suddenly a number of people are complaining that simply because the end game as is, or end game in general doesn't appeal to them that there is nothing for them to do anymore. All the old stuff hasn't gone away. If you feel that the game is dull, well that's not really a problem with the game. It's just what it is, you've gotten bored of the game. It happens.
If all the old stuff doesn't appeal to you anymore or you find that even the new stuff "After a while [] becomes as tiresome as trudging through a warehouse full of guys standing around pounding their fists", despite it being the most varied content to date, then nothing the devs reasonably can come up with in this game is going to satisfy you. The game isn't going to radically change into another game. If the basic gameplay doesn't appeal to you (anymore) nothing is going to fix that.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Actually there's quite a bit for me to do. I just have to do it by myself because as I said earlier, the leveling population on Liberty has taken a significant hit due to most people grinding Incarnate trials. And before you say it, no I won't go to Freedom or Virtue. Liberty is my home and it's where I'm staying. And it's not exactly that low pop anyway (medium load every single night is not a low pop server imho). It's just the population it has is rather....focused right now, shall we say?|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
I'm just saying that nothing changed. Everything from the previous issues is still around. So you can still go on enjoy doing what you enjoyed before.
Only suddenly a number of people are complaining that simply because the end game as is, or end game in general doesn't appeal to them that there is nothing for them to do anymore. All the old stuff hasn't gone away. If you feel that the game is dull, well that's not really a problem with the game. It's just what it is, you've gotten bored of the game. It happens. |
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| If all the old stuff doesn't appeal to you anymore or you find that even the new stuff "After a while [] becomes as tiresome as trudging through a warehouse full of guys standing around pounding their fists", despite it being the most varied content to date, then nothing the devs reasonably can come up with in this game is going to satisfy you. The game isn't going to radically change into another game. If the basic gameplay doesn't appeal to you (anymore) nothing is going to fix that. |
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I'm getting the vibe that peeps are exhausted on "hints, suggestions and rumors" it's the whole Illuminati thing that's made it old.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Even when it's very strongly hinted at by a dev?
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On an unrelated note I simply love your comic.
Keep up the good work!
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no disagreement there, i fully expect that since the incarnate stuff is to be going on for a while, it will be grafted to whatever big thing is the forefront enemy, coming storm for instance. had it come out before, it might have been related to the return of the 5th column or recluse when they were the main story thrusts, and yes, if the devs are listening at all, it will be related to rularruu.
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Originally Posted by TheJazMan
Maybe, down the road, we can have world saving events/other factions unlock our slots. Enough with the Praetoria stuff I know there are a couple of other trials coming with Prae but after that I hope we can have some other stuff. |
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Except that in a Michael Bay production the explosions are cool and not yet another reason to not play a Mastermind.|
Originally Posted by Venture
As for the Sutter TF I found it to be a complete Michael Bay production: $250 million spent on scenery and FX, $0.89 on the script.
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This kind of stuff annoys me because if they just toned it back a bit we'd probably get more new content every issue. Look at Praetoria. We got what, 50 story arcs? And most of those missions were fairly straightforward, with the occasional fancy mechanic thrown in to make you go "oh, that's neat."
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See, this is what I hate about all the new content we've been getting lately since GR. Skyway is NOT destroyed, I assure you, it's perfectly fine. I just took a flight around there and it's looking just like it always does. Same for Kings and Steel. All places wrecked by this "war" we're apparently in with the Praetorians.|
Originally Posted by Inazuma
Sorry you don't find giant killer robots, an evil Incarnate-charged Tanker, one of the most powerful heroes in Paragon, and the invasion and destruction of Skyway, to be epic.
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Until such time as we SEE all of this happeing in the world zones, it isn't happening. It's completely ridiculous to go in to a mission, see a large area of a game zone totally wrecked, and then when you come out it's all perfectly fine.
It utterly destroys any kind of immersion or continuity, and tears the 4th wall down whilst mooning the players.
@FloatingFatMan
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That's all their budget can do.
A tiny little piece of this and that.
Limited resources = Limited production
I guess...tone back expectations?
If people want more than whats being delivered then the budget for this game needs to increase.
I'd love to see it live up to the hype.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
Ok so to start getting some of your new Incarnate powers you have to go through these two trials. These incarnate powers make you much more powerful etc. so why aren't we doing something way more epic to unlock these? Shutting down a weapons facility and stopping experiments from escaping? Those are the main themes behind the two new trials. That seems pretty lame to me. Fighting the goatee villains is big but what the idea behind it all feels very poor. It isn't epic and not worthy of making you incarnate-like.
Unfortunately the CoH devs seem to have a long history of this type of non-epic feel (IMHO). The Mortimer and Sutter SF/TF seem rather blah. This is a superhero game yet in Kal we fight a bunch of CoT that have been around for years and some local lame-looking street toughs who have also been around for a while. Throw in some Midnighters and then finish it off with a fight against Posi in one of the most generic bases in the game. Ugh. The Sutter was given much more new art but we're fighting amongst battleships? A wrecked Skyway? Why not send us into a far more fantastic environment and give us enemies that are not Praetorians AGAIN?!
Anyway, it just seems like a lot of the creativity is lost lately and these new things seem to be almost an afterthought (especially the Sutter and Kal).