The New Trials and Incarnates
By
Arbegla,
Posted on: 2011-04-22 16:30 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Praetoria causes more problems than it solves by making players generate characters that don't actually belong to the world they're going to be played in. It also creates the impression that the devs are treating it as a "do-over" of sorts, that they feel the old Paragon/Rogue Isles zones are so yucky that even the devs don't want to deal with them any more.| The way Praetoria is set up, game-play and lore-wise, gives way more flexibility and development openings than a revamp of the blue or red side lower levels ever could. |
Really, it's a darling that should have been killed. And buried first.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Somewhere down the line - a Dev decided that the way we have played for 7 years is wrong. You take an older game with a fairly static base and you introduce a completely new style of game play.
A style of game play that made many of those who come here - choose City of Heroes over the other games.
I agree that solo I can invest tons of time - defeat hundreds of foes and get hardly any shards to drop. There was always a reward for everyone in this game - heck they even made it where you can turn of XP because some people found playing the content was REWARDING!
Now you tell me play the approved way or get no reward. The approved way is to farm - something every Dev in the past has tried to stop. Now suddenly - all is well and The Tractor Supply Store needs a branch in Paragon.
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That level 35-50 content is looking VERY far down the line.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I think the idea is to make Praetoria a looming threat, so we get plenty of build-up to the actual Incarnate content - and I wouldn't be totally surprised if the expansion of Praetoria includes Primal Earth based contatcs that give out missions that take us to the current Praetorian zones, or any new Praetorian zones.
Áll the zones are co-op, Steve Sheridan has already linked up with the Wardens, Arachnos has linked up with the Crusaders, and the co-op-friendly Vangyard are setting up a forwards base in Praetoria - a new 35-50 Paretorian zone set outside the sonic barrier with co-op Vanguard content as well as separate Hero and Villain content might be one possible way of expanding Praetoria and continuing to tie it in with the normal 1-50 path on Primal Earth. |
I'll be pleasantly surprised if it's anytime before Issue 23.
And Praetoria was really always a looming threat. The arcs is 40-50 in Peregrine didn't just magically vanish. They make it clear that the praetorians are NOT actually outright defeated.
EDIT: I STILL say they need a revamping of the older content, because RIGHT NOW players are going from the new and shiney 1-20 Prae into a game that really needs a new shiney coat of paint. Those 20-50 arcs are no way near coming soon enough for players to ignore the glaring differences between Prae and the legacy content, especially in COH.
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All the new story arcs from I17 onwards ahve been set roughly in the 20-30 range, with nothing added to the 30+ part - which is one of the main reasons I think they're planning a 30+ or 35+ expansion in Praetoria - like they're filling in the "gap" between the 1-20 GR content and a possible 30+ expansion for Praetoria.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I STILL say they need a revamping of the older content, because RIGHT NOW players are going from the new and shiney 1-20 Prae into a game that really needs a new shiney coat of paint. Those 20-50 arcs are no way near coming soon enough for players to ignore the glaring differences between Prae and the legacy content, especially in COH.
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Even the new TFs are kinda in this bracket too - there's quite a lot of new content available once people leave the 1-20 GR content - plus, it's also tied into some of the story elements they're familair with from the 1-20 stuff.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The transition from Praetoria to Paragon/Rogues at level 20 is probably THE most shonkily handled bit of story ever.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
EDIT: I STILL say they need a revamping of the older content, because RIGHT NOW players are going from the new and shiney 1-20 Prae into a game that really needs a new shiney coat of paint. Those 20-50 arcs are no way near coming soon enough for players to ignore the glaring differences between Prae and the legacy content, especially in COH.
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@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
The loyalists bit could certainly use a tweak now - Marchand can ask a player to try and stop the war, and the moment they exit to Talos Island, they could get an invite to the Sutter TF 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I actually pointed this out a while back. When a character dings 20 these days they immediately get access to quite a few recently designed arcs. My Bane Spider is 25 and has yet to even touch one of the original Sharkhead Isle contacts.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
All the new story arcs from I17 onwards ahve been set roughly in the 20-30 range, with nothing added to the 30+ part - which is one of the main reasons I think they're planning a 30+ or 35+ expansion in Praetoria - like they're filling in the "gap" between the 1-20 GR content and a possible 30+ expansion for Praetoria.
Even the new TFs are kinda in this bracket too - there's quite a lot of new content available once people leave the 1-20 GR content - plus, it's also tied into some of the story elements they're familair with from the 1-20 stuff. |
This "glut of content" in the 20's serves to make the 30's a somewhat jarring experience. You go from huge numbers of options for running new and highly polished content to suddenly being stuck with contacts that have been in the game for 7 years. I would love it if the Dev's would start pumping out new story arcs in the 30's or 40's.
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A 30-40 Praetorian wilderness zone with a Vanguard forward base and a focus on fighting the Devouring Earth who have started becoming more active again now that the Hamidon is waking up and a 40-50 West Coast neutral settlement zone that Tyrant is trying to bring fully into his Empire could be acceptable fillers for that 30-50 "gap" |
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
I actually pointed this out a while back. When a character dings 20 these days they immediately get access to quite a few recently designed arcs. My Bane Spider is 25 and has yet to even touch one of the original Sharkhead Isle contacts.
This "glut of content" in the 20's serves to make the 30's a somewhat jarring experience. You go from huge numbers of options for running new and highly polished content to suddenly being stuck with contacts that have been in the game for 7 years. I would love it if the Dev's would start pumping out new story arcs in the 30's or 40's. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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How so? you step out of Preatoria and are immediately introduced to a guy who informs you that one of Primal Earth's villains is waiting for you, and has either rounded up a bunch of versions of you from other dimensions or has already started cloning you. Doesn't that make you feel right at home?
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Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
The transition from Praetoria to Paragon/Rogues at level 20 is probably THE most shonkily handled bit of story ever.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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If you mean more content similar to the RWZ and Cimerora, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree. Those two zones wear thin very fast. The vast majority of what keeps you there is repeatable random missions. If I wanted that I'd go do papers. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
A 30-40 Praetorian wilderness zone with a Vanguard forward base and a focus on fighting the Devouring Earth who have started becoming more active again now that the Hamidon is waking up and a 40-50 West Coast neutral settlement zone that Tyrant is trying to bring fully into his Empire could be acceptable fillers for that 30-50 "gap"
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What I was thinking of was adding new contacts to existing zones, like the Devs did with the Clone Arcs.
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The RWZ is all repeatable missions? Did I just imagine the four quite substantial arcs it has?
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Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
If you mean more content similar to the RWZ and Cimerora, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree. Those two zones wear thin very fast. The vast majority of what keeps you there is repeatable random missions. If I wanted that I'd go do papers.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it is entirely repeatable content.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
The RWZ is all repeatable missions? Did I just imagine the four quite substantial arcs it has?
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However it doesn't have enough content in itself (imho) to take a character all the way through the 35-40 range without resorting to repeatable content.
Perhaps this is a fault of my own, but every time I've gone to the RWZ it's always been on a level 35 character and I always seem to run out of story arc missions before hitting the next "tier" of missions in the 40-50 range. As a result I wind up getting tired of the place and leaving it. I really should go back sometime and do the arcs I've never seen, I just keep finding other things to occupy my time.
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Or, and here's an amazing and revolutionary idea, no new zones, just some self-contained story arcs that give some spotlight time to other enemy groups that have been sitting around twiddling their thumbs/claws/tentacles while the Praetorians suck up all the oxygen. And none of this co-op stuff. Let villains be villainous, let heroes be heroic.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
A 30-40 Praetorian wilderness zone with a Vanguard forward base and a focus on fighting the Devouring Earth who have started becoming more active again now that the Hamidon is waking up and a 40-50 West Coast neutral settlement zone that Tyrant is trying to bring fully into his Empire could be acceptable fillers for that 30-50 "gap"
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34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others
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The RWZ spans a 15-level range, and a range where you take longer to level. It's unrealistic to expect it to have enough content to fill that range. No other story zone except maybe the Hollows has enough content to fill the level range it covers either, and all the others only cover 10 levels.|
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
Perhaps this is a fault of my own, but every time I've gone to the RWZ it's always been on a level 35 character and I always seem to run out of story arc missions before hitting the next "tier" of missions in the 40-50 range. As a result I wind up getting tired of the place and leaving it. I really should go back sometime and do the arcs I've never seen, I just keep finding other things to occupy my time.
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So yeah, no wonder it "wears thin" to you, you've only seen 1/4 of it. 1/5 if you've never done the LGTF. I will agree with you about Cimerora though, the arcs there seem like an afterthought, they have no substance and half the missions take you out of the zone anyway.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Heroes are always heroic |
Originally Posted by Finsplit
Let villains be villainous, let heroes be heroic.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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One word: Longbow.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Heroes are always heroic
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Hero = Someone who gets other people killed. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Heroes are always heroic
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@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Yeah like I said once I sat and thought about it I realized that I was probably creating my own issue with the RWZ. I'm leveling a new character right now, maybe I'll go there on him, but I'll wait until he's 45 or so. That way I can do all the arcs and get the "full experience" of the zone.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
The RWZ spans a 15-level range, and a range where you take longer to level. It's unrealistic to expect it to have enough content to fill that range. No other story zone except maybe the Hollows has enough content to fill the level range it covers either, and all the others only cover 10 levels.
So yeah, no wonder it "wears thin" to you, you've only seen 1/4 of it. 1/5 if you've never done the LGTF. I will agree with you about Cimerora though, the arcs there seem like an afterthought, they have no substance and half the missions take you out of the zone anyway. |
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
One word: Longbow.
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| Harkening back to the days of flaming arrows are Longbow's flamethrowers. They typically try not to use these when the press is aroundburning enemies alive plays poorly on the evening news for a "heroic" organisation. |
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I see them more as vigilantes. What annoys me about that is that they're hypocrites about it, and the game treats them as heroes, and expects us to treat them as heroes despite evidence to the contrary.
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Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
Heroes my butt. They're mercenaries, nothing more.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Quote:
Exccept when it shows us that they're stepped out of line, and then we have to beat some sense into them |
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I see them more as vigilantes. What annoys me about that is that they're hypocrites about it, and the game treats them as heroes, and expects us to treat them as heroes despite evidence to the contrary.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I agree. Some of the tip missions make them seem even worse at times.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I see them more as vigilantes. What annoys me about that is that they're hypocrites about it, and the game treats them as heroes, and expects us to treat them as heroes despite evidence to the contrary.
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And yet they are still labeled as heroes.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Exccept when it shows us that they're stepped out of line, and then we have to beat some sense into them
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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Because we deal with the rogue elements in the organization |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
And yet they are still labeled as heroes.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Such as every single one of them on the Rogue Islands, Praetoria, and the Rikti War Zone? |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Because we deal with the rogue elements in the organization
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@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Áll the zones are co-op, Steve Sheridan has already linked up with the Wardens, Arachnos has linked up with the Crusaders, and the co-op-friendly Vangyard are setting up a forwards base in Praetoria - a new 35-50 Paretorian zone set outside the sonic barrier with co-op Vanguard content as well as separate Hero and Villain content might be one possible way of expanding Praetoria and continuing to tie it in with the normal 1-50 path on Primal Earth.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork