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They won't follow if you're trading aggro with another tank/brute/scrapper; nor will they follow if they're pinned by other characters. There's some latitude for "killing at the spawn point" though so as long as they're close you're fine.|
Originally Posted by Hydrofoil_Zero
Backing off to avoid being sequestered?
Good idea UNLESS YOU'RE TRYING FOR THE BADGE!!! There is a badge for keeping the AVs at there original spawn point. http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Gotta_Ke...eparated_Badge It's necessary for the Master's Badge. http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Master_of_the_B.A.F._Badge You run THEY WILL FALLOW. So if anyone mentions making a run for the master badge you just stand there and take your lumps. Your a tank it's what your built for. I apologies for all the shouting but since there is a whole lot of threads giving the same incomplete advice I needed to get my point across. Please keep Bumped. Or arrange for this to be stickied. |
I've done this many times; I hit Taunt when I first acquire aggro then leave it alone so that the other tanker/brute/scrapper can get aggro once I need to leave to avoid sequestering. It's actually fairly easy to do this and if the aggro holders have their act together it works very well and the AV doesn't move much if at all.
In order for the AV to follow you it has to have a clear path to get to you... if other characters are in the way it just sits there and does a little shuffle trying to get past. If your team's any good at all the other aggro monkey on the team will establish aggro long before the AV figures out the pathing. They have the same idiot pathing AI that hostages have... how many times have you sat there watching a hostage run back & forth before finally figuring out how to use the ramp?
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Great if everybody knows what there doing; and if they are paying attention to things other than the fight, and if they can even see that someone is in trouble under all the other attacks. Oh and if there's more than one tank. And if the others can successfully hold the AV in place. How often has all these conditions bin met. Meh 50-50. But there is no way you can know that they will be coming in to a battle.
Much the same argument was made in the Brute forum this is, almost, the exact same answer.
If a AV fallows you YOU are the one to blame. No one else.
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I've yet to have the AV follow me any distance at all in that situation... if it does find a path I simply move to the other side and force it back where it came from. The AV very quickly looses interest in me with the other melee pounding on it.|
Originally Posted by Hydrofoil_Zero
Great if everybody knows what there doing; and if they are paying attention to things other than the fight, and if they can even see that someone is in trouble under all the other attacks. Oh and if there's more than one tank. And if the others can successfully hold the AV in place. How often has all these conditions bin met. Meh 50-50. But there is no way you can know that they will be coming in to a battle.
Much the same argument was made in the Brute forum this is, almost, the exact same answer. If a AV fallows you YOU are the one to blame. No one else. |
If you don't have 4 sturdy characters (2 per AV) to share AV aggro then you have to improvise and in that situation you're probably best off just pulling the AV's. It's very easy to keep the AV in place while you're pulling out however... just pull out in a direction that the AV's path is blocked by other melee characters. The AV will look at you, turn sideways, turn back to you and try to figure out how to get past the obstruction. By that time another melee should have the attention.
Admittedly if you have a league of idiots then you're best off just doing the standard pull to the tennis court but it really only takes two melee characters per AV who know what to do in order to handle the spawn point method.
I agree that if the AV does follow the tanker then it's the tanker's responsibility to get it back in place before it moves beyond the spawn point tether... the easiest way is to jump to the opposite side of the team.
For example:
- Starting position: Team..Melee.AV.Tank
- Tank gets second warning: Tank....Team.Melee.AV
- AV starts to follow: Tank...AV..Team.Melee
- Tank jumps to the opposite side: AV..Team..Melee...Tank
- AV moves back into position: Team..AV.Melee...Tank
- Another melee has aggro: Team..AV.Melee...........Tank is out and works with the reinforcement team until the red rings fade, then replaces the Melee.
- Rinse & Repeat until finished.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
From what I understand, they don't have to stay in the exact same spot. They just need to be within a few feet of the spawn point. So if they move a few feet, it's ok.
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This. I don't have a tank , but my brute (stone/stone) can usually out-taunt the tanks on the teams I play on (and sometimes survive longer too!) But when going for the badges, I hope you have other melee units which you can shuffle around aggro when you do get double ringed.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
For example:
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I suggest running some form of chat bind, that will automatically tell your team "TAKE THE AV!" (/bind numpad0 league/team/broadcast Take $target off my back, unless if you'd rather go belly-up!)
This way you do not need to worry about the AV running off.
Plus, if you are running for the "Master of.." badge.. your teammates probably have enough common sense to aim to keep the AV in their general spawn area.
@War-Nugget
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
CoH players are stupid and incompetent compared to WoW players.
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Agriculture in the tank forums...? Any way I guess it will take some time. It seems as though less "leaders" are explaining new content to include small things like league chat. It may take time before you get your badge.
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Can't argue with this at all. When the AV has followed me I just jump to another spot to keep it as close as possible to the spawn point. No problems, no worries, and no, it didn't keep me from getting the MoBAF badge... |
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
I've yet to have the AV follow me any distance at all in that situation... if it does find a path I simply move to the other side and force it back where it came from. The AV very quickly looses interest in me with the other melee pounding on it.
If you don't have 4 sturdy characters (2 per AV) to share AV aggro then you have to improvise and in that situation you're probably best off just pulling the AV's. It's very easy to keep the AV in place while you're pulling out however... just pull out in a direction that the AV's path is blocked by other melee characters. The AV will look at you, turn sideways, turn back to you and try to figure out how to get past the obstruction. By that time another melee should have the attention. Admittedly if you have a league of idiots then you're best off just doing the standard pull to the tennis court but it really only takes two melee characters per AV who know what to do in order to handle the spawn point method. I agree that if the AV does follow the tanker then it's the tanker's responsibility to get it back in place before it moves beyond the spawn point tether... the easiest way is to jump to the opposite side of the team. For example:
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Now to decide if I want to try for the MoLambda again.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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If the other tanks don't know how to taunt when you get your second warning then I suggest you hop back and forth over Siege/NS, trying to keep him/her in relatively the same spot. I know you can tank Siege inside the alcove (avoiding cannons) and NS inside the alley (again, avoiding cannons). This is slightly away from their "spawn points" but still counts for the badge.
Just because you get warnings doesn't mean you have to run in a straight line. wasd is your friends.
On a related note. Do they have taunt resist? I seem to be grabbing alot of aggro on my dom even with multiple tankers/brutes.
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From what I can tell, most tanks do not use their taunt power. It works too well, and can easily lead to triple-sequester. Instead, tanks rely on their gauntlet power to hold aggro. |
Originally Posted by MothersWomb
On a related note. Do they have taunt resist? I seem to be grabbing alot of aggro on my dom even with multiple tankers/brutes.
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Try not using debuffs or control powers. Both of those types of powers tend to draw a lot of aggro. Those AVs don't need to be controlled and I doubt you have any significant resistance debuffs. Just do your best attack chain, and maybe back off a bit if you're still getting aggro.
I was told the range on the master's badge is something like 150 yards or feet. I can't remember which. Basically, it is big enough to not worry about their exact position as long as they die fairly close to their spawn points.
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I've gotten two rings of sequester with my dominator, at least twice. Each time we were attempting Strong & Pretty, and had pulled the AVs to the helipad where we could debuff, control and demolish the spawns with the appropriate timing. In this case, you really do need to use the debuffs and controls, because the spawns can quickly overwhelm your team if you don't.|
Originally Posted by Syntax42
Try not using debuffs or control powers. Both of those types of powers tend to draw a lot of aggro. Those AVs don't need to be controlled and I doubt you have any significant resistance debuffs. Just do your best attack chain, and maybe back off a bit if you're still getting aggro.
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Every time I've gotten the rings, it's because there were no tanks and no brutes on the AV. One time Nightstar was just running around randomly hitting squishies.
The magnitude of tanker and brute taunts from Gauntlet is higher than the aggro generated by controls and debuffs. If the melee characters are doing their jobs, you should be able to do your job, which is control and debuff. And, while it's true that debuffs are heavily resisted by AVs, debuffs from 10 or 12 debuffers do make a difference, especially when support spawns are attacking.
A blanket statement of "don't use debuffs and controls" is wrong. The right thing to say is, "If you get one ring, stop spamming AoE powers, and attack other targets one at a time. When you lose the ring, go back to business as usual."
When I got my MoBAF I had no problem keeping the AVs where they where and only 2 tanks on each AV. When I got my second warning I just say the other tanks name and he took over, he did the same for me. The biggest problem we had was we had to killl him 3 times before we got them both killed at the same time. But other then that it was no problem. We both had fire/fire tanks too.
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The situation you describe is a lack of Tankers or Brutes, which can be because of a lack of support to keep them alive or simply not having enough on the team. It is to be expected that a squishy gets aggro when there are no tanks alive.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
Every time I've gotten the rings, it's because there were no tanks and no brutes on the AV. One time Nightstar was just running around randomly hitting squishies.
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MothersWomb sounded like they were getting aggro by using their powers, even with appropriate tanking.
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| The magnitude of tanker and brute taunts from Gauntlet is higher than the aggro generated by controls and debuffs. |
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| If the melee characters are doing their jobs, you should be able to do your job, which is control and debuff. |
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| And, while it's true that debuffs are heavily resisted by AVs, debuffs from 10 or 12 debuffers do make a difference, especially when support spawns are attacking. |
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| A blanket statement of "don't use debuffs and controls" is wrong. The right thing to say is, "If you get one ring, stop spamming AoE powers, and attack other targets one at a time. When you lose the ring, go back to business as usual." |
As a Dominator, you only need to focus on damaging the AVs and the reinfocement spawns. Any debuffs from the control set are not really needed and tend to draw aggro in a situation where tanks can't fully-commit to holding the attention of an AV.
Resurrecting this thread because I have a couple of questions about the Sequestration Rings:
1) How dangerous are they to squishes? I got kicked from a BAF the other night because I had 2 rings*.
2) Do rings from Siege and Nightstar stack together? Because currently when I get 2 from 1, I swap to the other. Is that a reasonable strategy or just my imagination? 
3) If you get 3 rings is it worth popping breakfrees? Did so the other other night and could move, again could be imagination
4) I think I get lesser rewards if I back off. I've done 5 BAFs and the time I got a Very Rare reward I had 2 rings most of the time. Is that selfish or being effective?
* Actually thats not why I got kicked. I'd already moved back and the rings had faded when the Leader told me to move back, I responded "Ahead of you" only to find myself back in Pocket D. What a tool
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
1) They are dangerous to everyone. If you're the one with the AV aggro, the AV will attack you while your defenses are down. If you're a squishy near the AV, the AV's PBAoE attacks can hurt.
2) Not sure.
3) Break Frees won't help, as the Hold magnitude is 1k.
4) Rewards have nothing to do with your performance. As long as meet the minimal participation criteria, your chances are the same as everyone else.
And yes, the leader is a tool for kicking you.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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In and of themselves they aren't dangerous as they don't do any damage. When you get that 3rd ring you and everyone nearby on your team (note, not league) will get hit by a MAG 5,000 hold. That will leave you powerless to protect yourself from incoming aggro.|
Originally Posted by Jagged
Resurrecting this thread because I have a couple of questions about the Sequestration Rings:
1) How dangerous are they to squishes? I got kicked from a BAF the other night because I had 2 rings*. |
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2) Do rings from Siege and Nightstar stack together? Because currently when I get 2 from 1, I swap to the other. Is that a reasonable strategy or just my imagination?
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3) If you get 3 rings is it worth popping breakfrees? Did so the other other night and could move, again could be imagination
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| 4) I think I get lesser rewards if I back off. I've done 5 BAFs and the time I got a Very Rare reward I had 2 rings most of the time. Is that selfish or being effective? |
I've found that some of my characters tend to get Rare/V-Rare about 50% of the time while others get Uncommon 95% of the time. I haven't found any correlation with their activity and rewards other than CMA and my Fortunata tend strongly to the Rare table (The Fort hasn't even unlocked Lore/Destiny yet and has 5 rares and 1 V-Rare) while my Fire/EM blaster and Ill/Rad controller tend very strongly to the Uncommon table, particularly the 'troller with NO Rare/V-Rare, 1 Common and all the rest Uncommon in about 30 trials.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Rings from the AVs will stack, so switching between Nightstar and Siege doesn't help. When I'm on the BAF and I get two rings, I go fight the adds until the rings have gone, that way I'm still "contributing".
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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It seems pretty random to me. I've had times where I was probably the MVP of the league and gotten a common. And I've had times where I had a horrible trial, died a bunch of times, and contributed way less than some others....and gotten a VR. And I've had everything in between. The more trials you do, the more it seems that it really is completely random.
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Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
The bottom line is that although the reward is supposed to be random there's apparently something else in the mix that's weighting the drops one way or another based on hidden criteria.
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Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Breakfrees won't help with the initial hold; however after 5-10 seconds (I haven't timed it) the MAG 5,000 hold drops to a MAG 12 or so for the last few seconds so it would help with the tail end of the hold. |
All tanks take note!!!
When you are trying to solo tank a BAF, this is an awesome trick to get you back in the fight without losing aggro.
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You might want to read the last five pages or so: the variation you describe is within the realm of what the random reward system can be expected to generate.
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Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Oh my this is a really loaded question, see the long thread on "Incarnate Rewards". The bottom line is that although the reward is supposed to be random there's apparently something else in the mix that's weighting the drops one way or another based on hidden criteria.
I've found that some of my characters tend to get Rare/V-Rare about 50% of the time while others get Uncommon 95% of the time. I haven't found any correlation with their activity and rewards other than CMA and my Fortunata tend strongly to the Rare table (The Fort hasn't even unlocked Lore/Destiny yet and has 5 rares and 1 V-Rare) while my Fire/EM blaster and Ill/Rad controller tend very strongly to the Uncommon table, particularly the 'troller with NO Rare/V-Rare, 1 Common and all the rest Uncommon in about 30 trials. |
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Cool, thats useful to know PLUS it means it wasn't my imagination |
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Breakfrees won't help with the initial hold; however after 5-10 seconds (I haven't timed it) the MAG 5,000 hold drops to a MAG 12 or so for the last few seconds so it would help with the tail end of the hold.
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Also: Thanks for the advice. This forum is the best!
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
FALLOW adjective /ˈfalō/
- (of farmland) Plowed and harrowed but left unsown for a period in order to restore its fertility as part of a crop rotation or to avoid surplus production
- - incentives for farmers to let the land lie fallow in order to reduce grain surpluses
- Inactive
- - long fallow periods when nothing seems to happen
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I know that at the start of that thread the Devs states that their code only checks to see if you qualify for a reward and if you do qualify its just random after that, but my personal experience points in a different direction.|
Originally Posted by Katie V
You might want to read the last five pages or so: the variation you describe is within the realm of what the random reward system can be expected to generate.
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Again I know I haven't done enough BAFs to perform statistically significant test but so far my rewards seem to match very well to how well I think I performed. Spooky
Don't tell anyone but
<.<
>.>
The couple of times I've ignored the rings and got sequestered a lot, I received VRs. The couple of times I ignored the AVs and just dealt with the Adds I got Commons. They are the only 2 times I have ever got Commons on a BAF.
I am not going to test the rings again, because thats a bit antisocial, but I will test the Adds. If it seems consistant it would be rather annoying, since dedicating yourself to fighting the Adds is actually a lot harder since you tend to get a lot less support and they still punch frikkin hard
And again I know the stats aren't enough to support the hypothesis, but the brain says one thing and the gut says another
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Quote:
If you stand there and get half the raid sequestered and they wipe, YOU are also to blame. You get two rings, you back off - period.
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Originally Posted by Hydrofoil_Zero
Great if everybody knows what there doing; and if they are paying attention to things other than the fight, and if they can even see that someone is in trouble under all the other attacks. Oh and if there's more than one tank. And if the others can successfully hold the AV in place. How often has all these conditions bin met. Meh 50-50. But there is no way you can know that they will be coming in to a battle.
Much the same argument was made in the Brute forum this is, almost, the exact same answer. If a AV fallows you YOU are the one to blame. No one else. |
131430 Starfare: First Contact
178774 Tales of Croatoa: A Rose By Any Other Name ( 2009 MA Best In-Canon Arc ) ( 2009 Player Awards - Best Serious Arc )
Backing off to avoid being sequestered?
Good idea UNLESS YOU'RE TRYING FOR THE BADGE!!!
There is a badge for keeping the AVs at there original spawn point. http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Gotta_Ke...eparated_Badge
It's necessary for the Master's Badge. http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Master_of_the_B.A.F._Badge
You run THEY WILL FALLOW.
So if anyone mentions making a run for the master badge you just stand there and take your lumps. Your a tank it's what your built for.
I apologies for all the shouting but since there is a whole lot of threads giving the same incomplete advice I needed to get my point across.
Please keep Bumped. Or arrange for this to be stickied.