Petition for making incarnate drops random
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-04-14 24:23 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
It's against the board rules to create a petition. Just so you know, in case your thread disappears later and you think the devs are just hating on you or something.
From what I've heard, though, the MM drop rate is a known issue, and very likely one similar to the issues they had in i19 with the Praetorian zone events (I haven't followed enough to see if those were fixed... I don't have any MMs that I badge with or are above level 32).
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
Quote:
ah didnt know ty.
|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
It's against the board rules to create a petition. Just so you know, in case your thread disappears later and you think the devs are just hating on you or something.
. |
There are a couple of threads in the suggestions and ideas sub-forum regarding this topic. You may want to head there and add your experiences to them instead.
Here's a thread started by one of the most high-profile Mastermind users on the board, discussing the disparity in rewards between MMs and other character classes:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=3588703
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
Quote:
As I understand it, it was never "fixed" for MMs because it was declared to be "working as intended".
|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
From what I've heard, though, the MM drop rate is a known issue, and very likely one similar to the issues they had in i19 with the Praetorian zone events (I haven't followed enough to see if those were fixed... I don't have any MMs that I badge with or are above level 32).
|
Quote:
You wouldnt happen to have a link for that would you? Trying to wrap my head around the whole thing to figure out what else can be done.
|
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
As I understand it, it was never "fixed" for MMs because it was declared to be "working as intended".
|
my main is a mm and ive very very rarely gotten the 10 threads option (i think only once ever)
ive gotten a large amount of uncommons, enough rares to get 2 tier 3s for everything and 2 very rares (broke one down without thinking though so only have 1 tier 4)
right now hes only like 4 commons and 3 very rares off of having tier 4 of everything now
For those who were able to get above the uncommon on a mastermind do you have the attacks in your build or are you built mostly to support your pets and team? I think that might be the issue here. I have never gotten anything good on my mastermind and he does not have any of the crappy attacks. My guess in all of this if your active with the crappy attacks you might get more stuff. Well I refuse to respec into something that isnt going to truely help me like having all the other support abilities will.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Quote:
my mm has a full attack chain, im actually against supporting my pets and its honestly easier to resummon them in the trials|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
For those who were able to get above the uncommon on a mastermind do you have the attacks in your build or are you built mostly to support your pets and team? I think that might be the issue here. I have never gotten anything good on my mastermind and he does not have any of the crappy attacks. My guess in all of this if your active with the crappy attacks you might get more stuff. Well I refuse to respec into something that isnt going to truely help me like having all the other support abilities will.
|
my mains primary build has at least 5 attacks and his current build has 3 attacks + judgement, he mostly uses attacks while debuffs are recharging on his 2nd build so very active, mostly using pets as meatshields
Quote:
Here's the original summation, including the response by Castle:|
Originally Posted by atomicdeath
You wouldnt happen to have a link for that would you? Trying to wrap my head around the whole thing to figure out what else can be done.
|
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...8&postcount=21
I agree with Necro. It is an unpopular view for some reason but most MM attacks are just fine in my book considering the damage my pets are doing. Properly slotted you can do enough damage to draw a boss off of your pets solo (assuming you want to). As a group your pets do more damage but you are much more capable of focusing damage and can use inspirations.
I've never understood the "I don't ever want to resummon my pets" attitude. When you had to buff them individually yes it was a pain, but now it is better a pet should take the Alpha strike instead of a player when necessary.
MM pets are like potato chips. We'll make more.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
Quote:
My Thugs/Dark MM has Night Fall and Soul Tentacles (Soul Mastery) as the only actual 'attacks'. I've also got Soul Storm that deals some damage, and I've got a damage proc in Fearsome Stare. That's all of the damage I'm capable of dealing without the aid of pets. (Okay, I guess Howling Twilight does, like... 5 damage, tops.)|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
For those who were able to get above the uncommon on a mastermind do you have the attacks in your build or are you built mostly to support your pets and team? I think that might be the issue here. I have never gotten anything good on my mastermind and he does not have any of the crappy attacks. My guess in all of this if your active with the crappy attacks you might get more stuff. Well I refuse to respec into something that isnt going to truely help me like having all the other support abilities will.
|
I logged in for the first time in 3 weeks, ran the BAF 5 times, got 3% progress on unlocking the Lore slot, and built Ion Total Core Judgment. (And if I had planned ahead more, I could've crafted the Ion Total Core after the 4th BAF, before I had finished unlocking the slot.)
In all 5 runs, I only did two things that I don't do in normal missions: I set all of my henchmen to aggressive against the brainwashed Resistance, and I set Twilight Grasp to autofire while fighting the AVs. My reward tables were Uncommon, Common, Rare, Rare, Common. The two Rare tables were on 16-man leagues, but that was the only significant difference between the other 3 runs.
I suppose it may help that /Dark is a debuffing set, so my support powers are almost all offensive, but damage dealt clearly isn't the main criteria for 'participation'. (Though the healing from TG may have been a not insignificant factor.)
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
One thing I notice that may or may not be true is that I get better drops when I focus only on AVs and ignore support troops. If I help clear support mobs I get lower level rewards.
Again not sure if that is true but so far it has held up for me every time. Pets tend to get distracted REAL easy even if you tell them to attack a certain mob. You might try a Passive/Aggressive approach. Tell pets to ignore attacks and to attack target. (not a setting you would normally use much LOL) Don't know if that would work but its worth a shot.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
Quote:
That is a very significant difference because it's exactly what you need to do to get better reward tables.
|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
The two Rare tables were on 16-man leagues, but that was the only significant difference between the other 3 runs.
|
Quote:
FWIW the working theory I'm going off of is that its just records combat log information as participation. So it doesn't matter if your power does damage or not. It doesn't matter if you targeted an enemy or an ally to buff them. But what does matter is that pets don't show up in the combat log.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
I suppose it may help that /Dark is a debuffing set, so my support powers are almost all offensive, but damage dealt clearly isn't the main criteria for 'participation'. (Though the healing from TG may have been a not insignificant factor.)
|
It's possible for a Mastermind with an active non-pet secondary to get performance marks. Something like Thermal, Pain, or Dark might get a lot of points. But from what I've seen, people using Forcefield and Traps are getting really awful scores. I have a friend with Bots/FF, and even though he uses attacks, he gets threads and commons quite frequently.
My widow has buffs and attacks and does things like taunt AVs and stuff. I can usually get rares and uncommons with her, but not very rares (I got 2 over a huge number of runs). I suspect she's capable of "high" performance but not "max" performance, because she has very few and very weak AoEs. My Dominator on the other hand, who has about 7 AoEs that show up in the combat log, is getting nothing but rares and very rares (she already got 3 VRs in like 15 runs).
If it's tracking combat log information, spamming AoEs would fill that up really fast. But if your character relies on pets or powers that don't need to be used very often (Traps and FF for instance), the total number of entries in your combat log per run is going to be very low.
This is all theory of course.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Quote:
But henchmen damage goes to the combat log, and we've been told henchmen damage isn't being counted (at least for the Praetoria zone events, and I'm assuming the same 'participation' score is being used here).|
Originally Posted by Dispari
If it's tracking combat log information, spamming AoEs would fill that up really fast. But if your character relies on pets or powers that don't need to be used very often (Traps and FF for instance), the total number of entries in your combat log per run is going to be very low.
This is all theory of course. |
If it was just the combat log entries, MMs should be getting Very Rare nearly every TF, unless they're sticking the pets in Passive stance. Pets damage spams up the combat log more than anything else I've seen, even AoEs (6 pets, most of them have AoEs of their own).
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Quote:
I don't believe pets are being attributed to your contributions though (but maybe your robots are getting rare rolls!). Think of them in your combat log more as an insight and not something the server considers your doing. All you'd get points for would be using the power that summons them in the first place, and buffing them.
|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
But henchmen damage goes to the combat log, and we've been told henchmen damage isn't being counted (at least for the Praetoria zone events, and I'm assuming the same 'participation' score is being used here).
If it was just the combat log entries, MMs should be getting Very Rare nearly every TF, unless they're sticking the pets in Passive stance. Pets damage spams up the combat log more than anything else I've seen, even AoEs (6 pets, most of them have AoEs of their own). |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
I find it unlikely that the 'participation score' is sifting out henchmen messages from the cobat log, and using everything else. And it's obvious that it's not simply using every message in the log. Which suggests to me that the combat log doesn't haven't have anything specifically to do with rating participation. (Though there may be a correlation)
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
The thing is I don't think the server just copypastes your combat log and uses that. It sets up things as having been used by different entities. If you use Fire Blast then the server sees that you used it. But if your pet uses Fire Blast, it sees the pet as having used it. It doesn't go into your "file." If you have pets you can see their information in your combat log, but that doesn't mean the server sees it the same way.
This is just a theory though. It's obviously not just damage done, because you can "pass" the Praetorian events without attacking. I doubt the "participation" mechanic is anything too complicated. Just checking the length of combat log information seems pretty straightforward.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ultra_Violence
I agree with Necro. It is an unpopular view for some reason but most MM attacks are just fine in my book considering the damage my pets are doing. Properly slotted you can do enough damage to draw a boss off of your pets solo (assuming you want to). As a group your pets do more damage but you are much more capable of focusing damage and can use inspirations.
I've never understood the "I don't ever want to resummon my pets" attitude. When you had to buff them individually yes it was a pain, but now it is better a pet should take the Alpha strike instead of a player when necessary. MM pets are like potato chips. We'll make more. |
I used to lament over losing a Pet during a fight. Then I realized that my MM actually ACTIVATES his Primary set less than anyone but a Tank. Blasters, Trollers, heck even FF Defenders have to key their Primary powers more often than I do normally. With that in mind I don't bother to resummon after losing a Minion and if the mission is about done I won't even resummon a T2 right away.
The fact that the pets now zone with me has made a HUGE difference in this notion however.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
Quote:
The problem I have there is that my Traps/AR Defender has been doing exceedingly well in terms of reward table (4 very rares out of 10 runs). Now it could be that the AR portion is shifting things somehow except my AR/Dev Blaster has been doing quite a bit worse (1 rare and 5 uncommons so far).|
Originally Posted by Dispari
It's possible for a Mastermind with an active non-pet secondary to get performance marks. Something like Thermal, Pain, or Dark might get a lot of points. But from what I've seen, people using Forcefield and Traps are getting really awful scores. I have a friend with Bots/FF, and even though he uses attacks, he gets threads and commons quite frequently.
|
My Bots/Traps MM has been getting uncommon tables reasonably consistently, I did get a couple of commons while learning it but haven't seen that in a few runs and I've never gotten the 10 threads table.
I really wish a dev would clarify how it works.
Quote:
Im not sure what the criteria is either, but when I did the praetorian event solo, I didn't receive the option for the emote I was there for, I petitioned and was told to participate more. apparently there is a "trigger" minion you have to hit in that particular case...
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
This is just a theory though. It's obviously not just damage done, because you can "pass" the Praetorian events without attacking. I doubt the "participation" mechanic is anything too complicated. Just checking the length of combat log information seems pretty straightforward.
|
Quote:
I hate when my demons die but I try to get my zombies killed on purpose. I'm not sure why; it might just be the distinction between the two. "COME ON, they have 80%+ RES and 10%+ DEF and I have 3 heals and they STILL DIED?" Over "Welp a zombie died, not much I could've done about it. Oh hey, a ghost."
|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
I used to lament over losing a Pet during a fight. Then I realized that my MM actually ACTIVATES his Primary set less than anyone but a Tank. Blasters, Trollers, heck even FF Defenders have to key their Primary powers more often than I do normally. With that in mind I don't bother to resummon after losing a Minion and if the mission is about done I won't even resummon a T2 right away.
The fact that the pets now zone with me has made a HUGE difference in this notion however. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Quote:
If that was said its about the worst news you can receive on any topic...it is mostly off the known issues board and they have moved on...i hate to be the barer of bad speculation!
|
Originally Posted by Lazarillo
As I understand it, it was never "fixed" for MMs because it was declared to be "working as intended".
|
Ive been grinding these trials since i20 came out. Atleast 5 times per day, more on weekends. And as a bots/ff MM I have yet to get anything above uncommon, and only get uncommons 20% of the time.
I'm tired of hearing about people getting good drops while i get crapped on. (cry more I know)
Ive been reading through some other threads and there seems to be something to the randomness / participation thing. But from a Mastermind standpoint seems most of us get screwed.
/sign