Is Issue 20 the most hyped issue ever?
By
Adelie,
Posted on: 2011-04-02 06:48 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Actually, to me, it is a huge letdown. This is a supers MMO and rarely feels like it. I really thought the Barracuda SF kinda stunk. Nazis have too strong a presence in this game. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I'm pretty sure I18 got way more hype
 Punching Nazis is never a letdown - as I19 and I20 clearly show |
I really think the only issue that was above and beyond expectations was i12. I don't expect much from i20 - after a few years I have learned that if you keep expectations low then you don't get disappointed
I think the devs have also lost touch (a bit) with the players. They seem to add stuff that would fit better in a military/militia type MMO than here. There is also a very strong magic/mystical component to the game that makes it feel like something out of D&D. I don't mind this stuff too much but a lot of this content, to me, is not epic nor supers feeling.
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Yeah, the amount of doom over removal of leagues, the turnstile, or either of the new trials would have been epic. Though I think if leagues hadn't worked out that would be sad.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Imagine if they had stuck the turnstyle system in the standard closed beta and it didn't work. Then they had to remove it, when the NDA was lifted (as it always when an issue goes live) everyone would have known about it, and the DOOM cry would have been epic.
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I am willing to bet that there were things tested by those who signed NDAs that are not in issue 20. I am also willing to bet that they are still under an NDA for things they tested, and can't talk about. I have no proof, because I am sure they are not going to talk.
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Everyone is assuming that i20 was all they tested. Also with signed NDAs they can fall back on those same testers for future testing. There is no implied agreement because they signed in, they have a piece of paper to present to a judge along with the log in agreement. I like my house, I also like my account. I don't want to lose either. Leaking in the regular CB gets you banned from future CBs. I bet leaking after signing will at the least get your account banned.
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Well, consider the source material. Comics have been doing Nazis for ages.
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Originally Posted by TheJazMan
Actually, to me, it is a huge letdown. This is a supers MMO and rarely feels like it. I really thought the Barracuda SF kinda stunk. Nazis have too strong a presence in this game.
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No denying it. I agree. But, I think they play a lesser role and make for good cannon fodder. Unfortunately in CoX, they are very present and not bit players. I just really would rather see us take on a super team than militia. The Nazis aren't the only group...we have numerous military types and they are very prominent in game. It is too bad but what can you do |
Originally Posted by Scythus
Well, consider the source material. Comics have been doing Nazis for ages.
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The 5th Column are no longer Nazis; that was retconned so they could release the game in Germany. I can find the exact part of the exact law that forbids it in German media, but please, stop calling the 5th Column Nazis. )-:
Assumption: NDA = Hype.
ASSUMPTION PHAIL!!
The NDA was because they were bringing on player testing for things showing up a full 6 months before release. Leaks that early can tip off competitors to do something to steal the thunder. Whether or not you or anyone thinks the thunder is thunderous or not is besides the point. When you are involving non-employees in beta testing that early in the cycle, you never want a leak. Ever. Thus, a signed NDA.
Thinking that was simply a marketing ploy is failed thinking.
Then to throw up a rant base on a wrong assumption is double fail.
If one simply asked, "Why the NDA in the first place?", then one would have actually looked cleverly inquisitive.
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What.
The German law forbids no such thing. It forbids displaying the Swastika in public. That's about it. And the 5th, last I checked, are still Nazis. Hell, their new leader, Marc Bison as I like to call him, is named "Reichsman." You can't get more Nazi than that.
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Seriously. Requiring a signed NDA isn't what i'd usually consider "hype". The premise doesn't quite make less than no sense, but saying requiring a signed NDA=hype is, well, odd.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Since I have no idea what you are talking about I'd have to say no I20 is not the most hyped issue ever. I knew more about a lot of previous issues before they came out than I do about I20.
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i suspect it's because they were/are trying out a bunch of new systems and content. i wouldn't be surprised if there was stuff tested that may be showing up for several more issues. Also, like a number of others noted, if a system doesn't work or requires being massively scaled back and/or reworked then it's preferable to either not publicize it until it's ready or quietly scrap it.
To me hype is the stuff that's announced on the boards, in interviews with media outlets, and at places like PAX. Yes, having stricter confidentiality requirements makes people more interested in what's being hidden, but that isn't really hype from what i understand the word to mean.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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They're Nazis |
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
The 5th Column are no longer Nazis; that was retconned so they could release the game in Germany. I can find the exact part of the exact law that forbids it in German media, but please, stop calling the 5th Column Nazis. )-:
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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As is so often the trump card on the internet, a little research goes a long way.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
The German law forbids no such thing. It forbids displaying the Swastika in public. That's about it.
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While the law doesn't come right out and say "don't specify that your characters are Nazis," it does definitely fall under the guidelines laid out in Strafgesetzbuch section 86a. If nothing else, it's borderline enough that the NCsoft legal department required the retcon as a safeguard:
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Originally Posted by Strafgesetzbuch ยง 86a
Section 86a Use of Symbols of Unconstitutional Organizations
(1) Whoever: 1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (Section 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in Section 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or 2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. (2) Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto. (3) Section 86 subsections (3) and (4), shall apply accordingly. |
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That law doesn't mean what you think it means.|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
As is so often the trump card on the internet, a little research goes a long way.
While the law doesn't come right out and say "don't specify that your characters are Nazis," it does definitely fall under the guidelines laid out in Strafgesetzbuch section 86a. If nothing else, it's borderline enough that the NCsoft legal department required the retcon as a safeguard: For the confused, we're talking subsection (1) sentence 2 and the definition specified in subsection (2). |
Can you tell me just where in this lineup of symbols the fictional 5th Column skull with a V symbol appears? I don't see it.
The law applies to SYMBOLS and PROPAGANDA not fictional portrayals of Nazis.
And there's never been a retcon.
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Strange, then, that Germany has banned video games for that very reason.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
The law applies to SYMBOLS and PROPAGANDA not fictional portrayals of Nazis.
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Is i20 one of the most complained about issues, before it's even been released, ever?
<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]
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I'm surprised George Lucas and Steven Spielberg haven't used a little CGI magic to make the Indiana Jones movies compatible with German law so they wouldn't be banned from being shown or sold there - like change all the swastikas to something like |
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
While the law doesn't come right out and say "don't specify that your characters are Nazis," it does definitely fall under the guidelines laid out in Strafgesetzbuch section 86a. If nothing else, it's borderline enough that the NCsoft legal department required the retcon as a safeguard
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so as no one would think that they were showing Nazis.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Have you ever seen a Swastika IN THE GAME? Again, these bannings were because of the symbols.
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Strange, then, that Germany has banned video games for that very reason.
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Incidentally, there's a brief article on the wiki, regrettably without sources, touching on tidbits of information in regards to the 5th Column retcon.
Among them is the statement that the devs at one point planned to specify the 5th Column as Italian rather than German. It's a bit farfetched that they would consider revising their intellectual property unless legal issues got in the way.
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It was considered, but if you read further.|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Incidentally, there's a brief article on the wiki, regrettably without sources, touching on tidbits of information in regards to the 5th Column retcon.
Among them is the statement that the devs at one point planned to specify the 5th Column as Italian rather than German. It's a bit farfetched that they would consider revising their intellectual property unless legal issues got in the way. |
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| All 5th Column re-appearances have been the original 5th Column, not Italian fascists. |
I wonder why they didn't ban Issue 15 then - Reichsman is kinda Nazi
Or maybe on Axis Earth, after the Nazis won the war, they decided to stop being Nazis?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Are you under the assumption that I believe the 5th Column to be Italian? My point is that they considered making that way, to the point that it was informally announced that it would be done. I don't see that happening without a Germany-shaped wrench getting thrown in the works.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
It was considered, but if you read further.
Wrong again, Mr. "Perfect." |
Logic is clearly lost by this point, obviously, as you've resorted to flaming and jumping to conclusions. What other gems will you put to use in your attempt to "win" an interpretation of a retcon?
Any idea why Reichsman would speak German if he wasn't a Nazi? As far as I know, the only fascists in Germany during the war were Nazis - which is why the 5th Column all have German titles, and use German words.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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You keep mentioning a "retcon."|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Are you under the assumption that I believe the 5th Column to be Italian?
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| Logic is clearly lost by this point, obviously, as you've resorted to flaming |
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| and jumping to conclusions. What other gems will you put to use in your attempt to "win" an interpretation of a retcon? |
Also relevant:
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Well, it's an alternate reality, as evidenced by the interdimensional travel and super powers and what-not. I always thought of the 5th Column as some arbitrary, non-descript German military group not related to Nazism... Something like the Malta Group, but for super-serum soldiers.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Any idea why Reichsman would speak German if he wasn't a Nazi? As far as I know, the only fascists in Germany during the war were Nazis - which is why the 5th Column all have German titles, and use German words.
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It's also an alternate reality ostensibly named AXIS Amerika.
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Well, it's an alternate reality, as evidenced by the interdimensional travel and super powers and what-not. I always thought of the 5th Column as some arbitrary, non-descript German military group not related to Nazism... Something like the Malta Group, but for super-serum soldiers.
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The 5th Column was utterly removed from the game and replaced with the Council. Even Burkholder's description was modified to reference "another villainous group."|
Originally Posted by Scythus
First I'd like to know what this "retcon" was, because I haven't seen it. Ever.
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Something about the 5th Column really spooked the devs so bad they gutted it completely. And not long after, CoH was released in Germany.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork