SOs and SFs

Hi All,

I subbed after the introduction of the set IOs, so I have no idea what it was like with just SOs. In the forums, I see posts recommending certain sets to be more survivable and then someone points out that players used to do such and such SF with just SOs.
If the game is playable with just SOs, how come people are spending billions on a build, and complaining about the price of purples and pvp IOs? I also see some elitism for certain TFs, such as only inviting IOd toons for a speed run. In one specific ITF, the team only needed 1 more to make 8, but the leader passed on several toons that broadcasted because they didn't have sets. He checks the sets before inviting the last one.
What happened? Were the powersets nerfed? Are the SF/TFs more difficult?
I love the crafting system and all, and I think it's great, but I'm just curious...

People spend billions on a build because they want the best build possible. Sometimes this allows them to do things they weren't before but most of those things involve adding arbitrary difficulty (i.e. using higher difficulty settings, soloing AVs/GMs etc.). IOs are not required for any SFs/TFs/Trials in the game although they can help a marginal team do better. As for the discrimination, it's no different from any of the other team building "rules" people use (such as having a tank and a healer), when I see someone doing it I tend to just make a note to avoid teaming with them in the future.

People spend their inf on IOs because what else are you going to spend it on? It's not necessary to be able to play the game, but improving your character is after all a large part of an MMO.

People who insist on IOs are either dumb enough to think it's actually needed, or just want to steamroll everything with overpowered characters instead of possibly needing to use strategy from time to time.

I have never seen someone rejected for a TF/SF because they don't have sets. I'm convinced this is a myth propagated by people who don't understand how to use sets.

Refusing to team with people who aren't IO'd out is right up there with refusing to start a mission until the team has a particular archetype and/or power set on the list of red flags that drive me to start clicking the "Quit Team" button and not stop until I've punched a hole through my mouse. This isn't EverQuest or Warcraft. There's nothing that can't be done with a full team, and there's no reason to be that competitive or that picky. Especially since the developers still balance the content around SOs, not IOs. Aside from the very recent Incarnate stuff, IO sets are the CoH "endgame." They're something to strive for. They're not a prerequisite.

Whilst I won't judge people (actually maybe I will a little) on how they make up their group the game is easy enough that any configuration can pretty much breeze through just about any TF so long as the players are competent.

I remember when someone said that my SS/FA brute wasn't enough damage and they wanted a Blaster instead. I considered it a blessing to get that kind of forewarning before committing to something

The thing that baffles me about people like the one that the OP described is that you can't check someone's build. If I /info'd someone, and they were frankenslotted, they'd be far more effective than someone slotted with pure SOs, but would look exactly the same on the /info screen, except maybe a few crappy 2-piece bonuses. On the other hand, if you checked a Axe/SR brute who had each armor one-slotted with a Luck of the Gambler +recharge, and every attack six-slotted with Kinetic Crash for the +rech bonus, he'd do less damage than an SOed character, and would die quicker. Plus, changing all his knockdown to knockback would frustrate some teammates, and possibly himself. Buy hey, he'd have a long list of set bonuses!

TL;DR: What the /info screen says doesn't tell you anything useful about the character, or the player using it.

Seeing set bonuses shows IO's are in place. It does not mean it is a good build. Could be all Kinetic Crash which has wonderful set bonuses and is good in the right powers, not so good in all your attack powers.

Not seeing set bonuses does not prove you arent IO'd... you could be hyper franken-slotted for extreme efficiency with regards to slots / power. Something I am often tempted to do with my Peace Bringer so I can have more free slots available.

So, ya, guy was a huge dork....

What I don't really understand is, when you make a super awesome IO'ed, can-take-on-the-whole-world build, you usually try to show off with it, right? Wouldn't you be more inclined to invite less-awesome built characters along so you can carry them on your shoulders uphill with with banana peel slippers?

Of course, I guess with the new incarnate content and slots, people don't want to show off and just want to get stuff done?

All of my level 50s are IOed out with level 35 common IOs. I have one very lightly IOed level 42 Ill/rad and that's basically it. Eventually I'll get around to updating some builds with sets, but it takes time to plan a build and time to acquire the funds of the build depending on how crazy I want to go with it. I would rather just go play a character.

(quick reply)

The biggest thing IO sets do is improve solo / non-optimized team performance. With a decent team composition it's quite possible to steamroll TFs with only SOs, but IO builds let people do it much faster or with less rounded teams. At the extreme high end it allows insanely fast clear times by letting teams break into multiple groups and split up, with each group clearing part of a map. It also allows soloing or duoing TFs in some cases... plus it's just fun to be able to turn up the difficulty and mow down purples a dozen at a time.

Still, a well balanced group provides far more benefit than any possible IO build... "well balanced" in this case meaning lots of different types of Defenders or Corruptors. When everyone's speed boosted, softcapped, immune to mez, damage capped, recovering more end than they could possibly use, and regenning faster than a Regen Scrapper it's pretty hard not to completely smash anything you run into.

Posting just to echo Stryker's sentiments about buffs in TF's.

A single Kinetic defender with SO's, who maintains speedboost, is worth tens of millions in recharge bonuses.

A single Force Field or Cold defender maintaining shields is worth hundreds of millions in defense bonuses.

Most other buffs, heals, debuffs, Controls, and similar, cannot be quantified in monetary terms because there are no IO set bonuses that compare with confusing an entire spawn, flooring their resistance, and buffing your damage to the cap.

Never mind that these characters are ALSO gonna be SHOOTING AND KILLING things, on top of all this.