Would be nice.
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This is why I play redside.
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Renault is probably the worst SF for needless zoning. The jerk won't give you his number until halfway through either.
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If we're talking needless zoning, let's talk Numina. |
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Renault is probably the worst SF for needless zoning. The jerk won't give you his number until halfway through either.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Worse now that they added the two "fixed" (were they ever broken?) missions.
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they werent broken per se, but they were missing from the tf|
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
Worse now that they added the two "fixed" (were they ever broken?) missions.
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honestly i liked the tf more when they WERE missing than now with them which is requiring an extra trip to mercy (merged ferry system makes that a tad easier though)
I don't mind the zoning if there's a valid reason for it (even if I did have to stifle a few groans when a Grandville contact sent me to Thorn Isle in Nerva for the umpteenth time...) I do dislike the primarily blueside tendency to place missions in utterly absurd zones, like the law office in Perez Park, or (my personal favourite) the comic book convention in Crey's Folly.
All missions need to be in the same zone. No, wait, the same door. In fact, all task forces now take place on different levels of the building. Wait, no,that's too tedious. All task forces need to be completed in one 10'x10' room. Hate to have anyone be distressed because they had to go down a hall or actually *move.* And at the beginning of a TF, everyone gets a temp power, "Kill everything." One click and they all die. No travel worries. No END worries. No resistance/defense/SO/IO/Set worries. And no text other than "go hit the button." Wait, that might be too much. People may have to read a sentence. Yep, everyone goes to the contact and - no, they may need to find a door. They're just instantly teleported to a 10x10 room with a big "Hit the kill now button" banner in their faces. Yep, that's what we need, NAO.
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Wait, let me try.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
All missions need to be in the same zone. No, wait, the same door. In fact, all task forces now take place on different levels of the building. Wait, no,that's too tedious. All task forces need to be completed in one 10'x10' room. Hate to have anyone be distressed because they had to go down a hall or actually *move.* And at the beginning of a TF, everyone gets a temp power, "Kill everything." One click and they all die. No travel worries. No END worries. No resistance/defense/SO/IO/Set worries. And no text other than "go hit the button." Wait, that might be too much. People may have to read a sentence. Yep, everyone goes to the contact and - no, they may need to find a door. They're just instantly teleported to a 10x10 room with a big "Hit the kill now button" banner in their faces. Yep, that's what we need, NAO.
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All missions should alternate from the farthest reach of the Storm Palace to the farthest corner of Dark Astoria, with a stop to talk to an NPC at the back corner of The Hive. Because not making people travel long distances for no reason would be too easy.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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You're complaining about *zoning.* You're in a city. Yes, you may have to cross the street. |
Originally Posted by Dispari
Wait, let me try.
All missions should alternate from the farthest reach of the Storm Palace to the farthest corner of Dark Astoria, with a stop to talk to an NPC at the back corner of The Hive. Because not making people travel long distances for no reason would be too easy. |
We've got another thread whining about ambushes. Yet again. Because, OH MY GOD, my powers might not be up yet! I may have to do something other than stand still, take a nap, and pick a target after a while!
How much easier and more *dumbed down* does this game have to get?
Hell, put my suggestion in place and someone would complain that OMG, we have to PUSH a BUTTON!
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Crossing the street isn't crossing 5 zones for no reason. Especially going to obscure zones like Dark Astoria. In fact, one of the reasons I'm opposed to constant zoning is it makes my client crash faster.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
You're complaining about *zoning.* You're in a city. Yes, you may have to cross the street.
We've got another thread whining about ambushes. Yet again. Because, OH MY GOD, my powers might not be up yet! I may have to do something other than stand still, take a nap, and pick a target after a while! How much easier and more *dumbed down* does this game have to get? Hell, put my suggestion in place and someone would complain that OMG, we have to PUSH a BUTTON! |
And dumbing down isn't the same thing as removing pointless time sinks. Unless you think there's actually a challenge presented by going to another zone.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Then perhaps you should be up in tech issues/bugs.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Crossing the street isn't crossing 5 zones for no reason. Especially going to obscure zones like Dark Astoria. In fact, one of the reasons I'm opposed to constant zoning is it makes my client crash faster.
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Well, there is Fort Trident... And the Crucible...
Hello? Is this thing on?
*taps forum mike*
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I said one of, not the only reason (and yes I've petitioned and sent support tickets numerous times). It's still annoying to have to travel from Steel to Dark Astoria, to Eden, to wherever. Especially since there's no actual reason for it to happen other than to waste time.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Then perhaps you should be up in tech issues/bugs.
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As I said, dumbing down would mean it makes the content easier or more accessible to less skilled players. Making enemies easier or missions shorter. There's no challenge or difficulty in traveling somewhere. Removing travel time does not dumb down things in any way. It simply removes pointless padding.
You're free to be in favor of pointless padding, but that's not the same thing as giving the players an "I win" button.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Good point.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
As I said, dumbing down would mean it makes the content easier or more accessible to less skilled players. Making enemies easier or missions shorter. There's no challenge or difficulty in traveling somewhere. Removing travel time does not dumb down things in any way. It simply removes pointless padding
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
All missions need to be in the same zone. No, wait, the same door. In fact, all task forces now take place on different levels of the building. Wait, no,that's too tedious. All task forces need to be completed in one 10'x10' room. Hate to have anyone be distressed because they had to go down a hall or actually *move.* And at the beginning of a TF, everyone gets a temp power, "Kill everything." One click and they all die. No travel worries. No END worries. No resistance/defense/SO/IO/Set worries. And no text other than "go hit the button." Wait, that might be too much. People may have to read a sentence. Yep, everyone goes to the contact and - no, they may need to find a door. They're just instantly teleported to a 10x10 room with a big "Hit the kill now button" banner in their faces. Yep, that's what we need, NAO.
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You're overcomplicating it and making it too much work.
When you select a mission from the contact, all XP for all kills, and mission bonuses for the entire arc should be delivered immediately.
Thelonious Monk
Let's make the game contain one building with infinite missions.
Unnecessary Zoning 15 yard Penalty
I am Glad that there are not that many zones Redside. Travel will be a bit better when i20 comes out with the 2nd Black Helicopter spot in Nerva and GV. This was by design, because the devs realized the mistake they made Blue Side. 2 x 1-6 , 2 x 10-19, 2 x 20-30, 2 x 30-40, not to mention all the hazard zones. They even tried to correct that by make 2 of them into psuedo hazard zones (Hollows and Faultline).
So the Next time you see a post that asks for more Zones "just for one side" vote no. Co-Op zones add expansion.
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Personally I'm against new zones when we have so many unused ones as-is. But that's a whole 'nother discussion.
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Originally Posted by Blood_Beret
Unnecessary Zoning 15 yard Penalty
I am Glad that there are not that many zones Redside. Travel will be a bit better when i20 comes out with the 2nd Black Helicopter spot in Nerva and GV. This was by design, because the devs realized the mistake they made Blue Side. 2 x 1-6 , 2 x 10-19, 2 x 20-30, 2 x 30-40, not to mention all the hazard zones. They even tried to correct that by make 2 of them into psuedo hazard zones (Hollows and Faultline). So the Next time you see a post that asks for more Zones "just for one side" vote no. Co-Op zones add expansion. |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I said SF. Not TF. Redside pretty much did away with pointless zoning and only has missions in other zones if there's a reason for them to be there. Renault sends you to Nerva because there aren't any Longbow in Sharkhead. It sends you to Mercy because that's where Ghost Widow's tower is. Blueside just sticks mission doors in random zones with no rhyme or reason.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
If we're talking needless zoning, let's talk Numina.
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The Numina hunts are just silly, they're needless missions not just needless zoning.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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When zoning is genuinely pointless, like especially when its random meaning the mission author didn't even care where you went, I think there's no harm in re-evaluating whether that zoning is really necessary or not.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
And dumbing down isn't the same thing as removing pointless time sinks.
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However, you seem to be stating not just the suggestion that unnecessary zoning should be removed, but the stronger statement that zoning is never necessary, and therefore it should always be removed. That's extreme. If the story calls for a mission to take place in zone X for context purposes, it should take place in zone X. If the next mission is supposed to take place in zone Y, then that's where the players should go. It should be, for sanity's sake, uncommon for people to be sent all over creation with very little activity in between, but that's a matter of degree.
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Ah yeah, I usually equate TF=SF.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I said SF. Not TF. Redside pretty much did away with pointless zoning and only has missions in other zones if there's a reason for them to be there. Renault sends you to Nerva because there aren't any Longbow in Sharkhead. It sends you to Mercy because that's where Ghost Widow's tower is. Blueside just sticks mission doors in random zones with no rhyme or reason.
The Numina hunts are just silly, they're needless missions not just needless zoning. |
As usual things are better redside. For a while my Widow was blueside and I was going to do some of the Oro badges. Since there are basically three versions of "do this with no travel powers," I got stuck in a 20+ mission arc where every single mission was in a different zone. I spent 3/4 of the arc walking. It was not a fun experience.
I waited until that char went back redside to work on Oro badges again.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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If it were I20 already, the traveling for Renault would be trivially easy with a Black Helicopter in Sharks going to Kalinda or the other side of Mercy and a Black Helicopter right there at Agincourt in Nerva. You're welcome.
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Yesterday I bounced into two TFs with my Widow that I hadn't done in months (possibly years): both the WSTs. I started with Manticore, groaning each trip from Faultline to Dark Astoria (especially painful on a rogue). Afterward I was thinking that the Renault would be better, but it was sending us into the middle of Nerva and to the odd ends of Mercy. Each trip as eye-rollingly lame as the last. Traveling around with Ninja Run and Flight, the other TFs in the past have been just as bad. Just a reminder of old content and why it's generally avoided.
I know we've gotten enhancements to travel in recent times. Ships go to more places, fly and sprint are faster, and whatnot. But it's still not a solution to the real problem: asking you to zone is nothing but an ancient relic of time-wasting past; an artificial lengthener to slow you down and make the content feel longer than it is.
There's no actual purpose to being asked to zone, especially numerous times. Each mission taking place in a separate zone is just unnecessary. There's rarely any actual need for missions to take place in different zones; a lot of older missions are even flagged so that they can occur in various random zones. The only time zoning is super necessary is when the story calls for it (if it's specifically taking place in a certain location, in which case the missions should mostly all be taking place there) or if you're taking to an NPC (which is mostly a waste of time).
Newer TFs and arcs accomplish storytelling without requiring us to change zones for every mission. Can older TFs and arcs be updated to be similar?