Batman: Rebooted!

I like to think it's because of his own personal shortcomings. I recently watched 'Under the Red Hood' and I liked that Bruce's explanation for why he didn't kill was because if he started he wouldn't be able to stop. Like he recognizes his own weaknesses and knows that if he steps outside of the boundries he's drawn for himself, he'll inevitably become something he doesn't want to be.



And on a slightly more pithy note:


Well, if the "it's a comic book" explanation doesn't work, how about the "it's an action movie" explanation?

If the Transporter happened in real life, Jason Statham would've been dead within the first fifteen to twenty minutes. Aren't movies and comics what we go to so we CAN see something impossible?

Jackie Chan can't really fight off an army of dudes; he'd be overwhelmed fairly quickly. And these are movie's that are supposed to be taking place in our reality. Batman already operates within a fantastical world, why should that change for a movie?

Of course, I don't know why I'm arguing since I already said that I thought the Nolan movies were great. Guess I forgot that on the internet you can't state any critiques you might have for a product without someone assuming you hate it and telling why it's actually so much better than what YOU envisioned.

Hows that any different than anyone who actually has powers or an item that grants them abiltiies far beyond a normal person? I mean No one says the Flash should give up his powers and act norm because he's been powered for too long and it's making him soft.



You could apply that same logic to everyone who has an item that could be ganked. (green lantern, Thor, Ironman, etc.) I mean every super hero with a power that could be copied should off themselves to prevent someone evil from stealing it. Anything could be used for good or evil, all depends on the user. People who have the means to do good shouldn't be so afraid of screwing up they do nothing. Otherwise no one would do anything out of fear of being somehow having it turned against them.


While thats interesting, but killing people and being properly prepared are too very different things. If your life is full of crazy crap trying kill you on a regular basis then may be investing in some sort of super means is not only prudent for you but everyone you care about. If anything you don't care enough about your friends and family if you know fully some jerk like Darkseid could roll up on a moments notice and you failed to do anything about it despite being able to. If your morale fiber is so flimsy that being outfitted with some new tech or powers crumbles you then you probably have no business being a crime fighter in the first place.(and if you really cared then your mission should be finding someone else to empower who can like Shazam does.) if everyone else with powers manages to keep themselves in check I dont see why batman is such a pansy about stepping up to the big leagues if he could.


That's great as there's always going be a certain amount of rule of cool in effect. But to go well batman can just jump kick his way thru an army of doomsday clones who are even 50% of the strengh of the original because he's batman...Im sorry thats just going too far. Not to say that scenario can't exist...just then you need give a logic reason why said feat has happened. Anything can happen in comics there's just need be a well written explaination for it.(or some explaination, I prefer a dumb one over it's a comic deal with it.)

I never suggested you hated the films. I think most people around here say I think they re overrated, but decent films. I merely agree with Nolan's assessment. If the goal is to be this dark stealthy vigilante who's the ultimate human hero then he should stick to fighting proper threats of non powered to low level threats.

Having him in a world with powers makes him seem silly for doing what he's doing. It would be like someone riding a horse across country in this day in age to deliever a letter when we can just send an email or text and achieve the same end result with little effort. (the pony express died the day the telegraph was invented.) It's just not sane or practicular in the context of someone like Superman can come in and clean house in the blink of an eye. (simliar to how the original Nightowl retired when Doc manhatten came on to the scene.) If batman were alone in his universe or a period piece like Sherlock holmes then I can justify how he operates. Otherwise he's just riding around in a wheel chair for the fun of it if he never attempted to grant himself more ability.

You said a lot, and I don't mean to cherry pick your quote, I just hate over-sized quotes and this section seems to be the meat of your disdain. That said, I don't really see the logic in the argument. In the suit, Bale delivers, IMO, the persona of a man that should not be messed with. In the comics, isn't that the reason Wayne creates the suit? To strike fear? Because just him in black street clothes wasn't going to cut it?

Yeah, Chuck Connors can give the presence to let people know not to mess with him. But Chuck Connors isn't trying to hide the fact that he's Chuck Connors. Meanwhile, Bruce Wayne doesn't want to let on that he's Batman. Bale, when walking around as Bruce, shouldn't be putting off a Don't-Mess-With-Me vibe. And he doesn't. He acts in a way expected of millionaire playboy. He gives off the aire of a millionaire playboy. And when in costume, he gives off the vibe of Don't-Even-Think-Of-*******-With-Me, IMO.

Hmm. How big an army are we talking?

By that logic nearly 50% of superheroes would have to be retired cause the Superman-level ones are more powerful than them. The Question would be out of a job. Heck, the entire Bat-family is apparantly obsolete. Green Arrow and Hawkeye are out. Even Capt. America would be up for the chop since he's nowhere near Iron Man or Thor level.


It just seems like such a strange argument to me. I'm not against making a "Batman in the real world" movie, and Nolan really hit it outta the park. I just don't cotton to the claims that Batman ONLY makes sense in that setting.



No, wait. Actually, I DO agree with that statement. I just don't give a ****. It's like when people point out that Indiana Jones could never survive falling out of a plane on a life-raft or be saved from a nuclear explosion by a fridge.

Who cares?

That's one of the main reasons I GO to movies (or read comics). I WANT to see the scrappy hero overcome odds he should have no chance of surviving.

Also, why is Batman always the one to get called out on this? There are plenty of characters with the exact same dynamic, yet nobody seems to say anything about them. I'm guessing it's just cause Batman's really popular.

It's hard to explain, because it is so intangible and today's actors don't often portray that sort of authority or presence. It is easiest to see in the scenes with Freeman and Caine, both portraying characters where he doesn't have to 'pretend' he's not Batman. They both pop off of the screen, whereas Bale doesn't. He never really carries the weight necessary to be convincing that he could be confused for a superhero.

Actually I can see Batman in a world with Superman.

For all that Superman is, he can't be everywhere at once. This has been proven time and time again.

Sure, Superman could go to Gotham and keep the streets clean, but then other things begin to happen...

...new criminals show up who think they can take out Superman. So, a city who's crime was relatively low powerlevel, but smart and/or connected, just got new superpowered criminals!

or

...Gotham's streets are cleaned, but it takes constant vigilance from Superman to keep it that way, and thus Metropolis starts to go down.

Now, as for them on the same team it can work, but when one looks at Batman's solo title and then at JLU it just falls apart in so much as you wonder why he doesn't use the tech to begin with.

I think it's more because out of the JLU, Batman is more popular than say Green Arrow.

Marvel has a few heroes who've been put in over what their usual solo title would go...like Spider-Man in space! But he doesn't tend to get big bad new tech out of it, and it happens less often.

I guess I don't see a reason for him to be intimidating with the people he's got the closest relationships with. Why would he need to carry that presence with Alfred? I found Bale's performance to be very believable. For instance, this isn't a seasoned Batman. He hasn't been that hardened yet. The Joker is the first big player to come along that causes public opinion to turn on the Batman. At the beginning of the Dark Knight, he's a man with no limits, he even acts that way with Alfred. By the end, he's learned he might, and he has to deal with that, like in the scene with Alfred after Rachel's death. Both perfomances were what I would expect of a man in that situation.

But hey, to each their own.

No has more to do with how Batman is presented. JL batman and solo batman are often written like two completely different chaarcters. Any of other characters you named for most part stay fairly consistent in their MO and tend to stick to threats that fit their style. Such as the gap between most avengers foes and Captain America isn't as remotely as vast as most JL foes to batman and Cap doesn't need to force the plot in a direction to show how important and useful he is. Batman does.(which if you want to me show some fairness Wolverine another character who's been broken into pieces due to too many cooks in the kitchen writing him and just being in too many places. Is he a maverick, a team player, a leader...depends on the issue. Marvel atleast is willing joke about it.)

Batman in his regular books will actually have some difficulty dealing with his own rogues, then in some other book he's supposedly able to take down any super being with time to plan and the plot is often railed into making him seem useful and important.(Superman never has this probelm, if anything DC spends more time trying convince us why the story isn't over in two secs.) People are written like idiots or job to make batman seem formidable, but all does is usually show how inferior Batman really is. He's more or less Marvel's answer to squirel girl, only marvel has the sense to make the nonsensical victories off panel.

I'd be fine if they had say batman evolve from a street level hero to a guy who fights global threats over time as other posters said in this thread, as that's natural progression. I can get behind that as thats a great way for the current films to move toward the justice league, and we see Batman ramp up the tech he's throwing around to fit into the line up.

Not this Samus Aran set up whom seems go back to his default once the larger threat is over. I mean for a guy who's whole thing is he's supposed to be always prepared to be walking around with his nolan verse lvl gear on a daily basis seems silly. Batman is only as smart as the people writing him and often there's just too much plot convience and jarring moments. I can handle a few nuke the fridge moments (I laughed when it happened in the movie.),especially if they re done tongue in cheek but I'd prefer alot less of them. It doesn't help that DC always trying remind us that
s he's not super human. Can't have it both ways. (.....well they can but it definitely rubs me the wrong way.)

You mean Green Arrow fights people like Darkseid in his book too?

I didn't read any of Hawkeye's minis; did he solo Ultron in one of those?


As Durakken pointed out, in the JLA setting, Batman works best as the tactician. In that aspect he DOES surpass the other members.

Of course there are plenty of examples of lazily written Batman using deus ex machina to defeat a villain, but that's true of any character. That's how we got the "Batman can breathe in space" joke. But I don't think bad writing should count against a good character.

People who complain about Batman "only working" in his own world strike me as the same ones who complain that Superman is a bad character because he's too overpowered. Batman has his strengths within the Justice League, all it takes is some logic and imagination to make him "work".

But that requires an actor and script that can pull that off.........

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SUPPORT - IT'S NOT JUST A GROUPING OF ATs
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More Than a Game
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This.

No.

Bruce Wayne is not "the" mask nor is The Batman. They are both masks. The true character is that person who he is when he isn't out patrolling and putting the fear of himself into criminals and when he's not out gallivanting as a playboy. He's the man that offers jobs to the criminals and gives them a chance to go straight, he's the guy that took in Dick, Jason, Tim, Bane, Damian, Jean-Paul, and a number of others, and was raised by Alfred. The one who makes hard decisions and puts on a hard face while trying to get the best for people. He's the one that realizes his way of life is crap and would love to not have to be The Batman, but knows he could never give it up, and pushes people away because he doesn't want them to go down the hard road he has.

The Batman is a myth.
Bruce Wayne is a tool.
Matches Malone is a con.

The man is none of these, but his friends do call him Bruce, and it is the name his parents gave him, so I doubt he'd truly go by anything else so while he is not the Bruce Wayne that is the public face, he is still Bruce Wayne the private face.

Hell, I have a character based off of her (Girl Crush in my sig).

They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!

@Starflier