In your personal opinion...


Acemace

 

Posted

Using the builds as posted, plugging numbers into my survivability spreadsheet generates the following results (assuming I typed everything in correctly):

Code:
Sustainable	Smash		                5043.56	11260.89
(points/s)	Lethal		                5043.56	11260.89
        	Fire		                559.80	1566.69
        	Cold		                559.80	1566.69
        	Energy		                8099.54	2221.42
        	Negative		        1619.91	2221.42
        	Toxic		                243.54	181.34
        	Psi		                400.40	123.20
        	Nonpositional Psi		229.58	108.97
        	composite (66% s/l)		1246.66	1015.79
        	weighted average		3974.61	7878.36
        	Relative (Invuln = 1)		27.09	22.07
				
180 second surv	Smash		                5946.55	15036.49
        	Lethal		                5946.55	15036.49
        	Fire		                660.03	2091.98
        	Cold		                660.03	2091.98
        	Energy		                9549.67	2966.23
        	Negative		        1909.93	2966.23
        	Toxic		                287.15	242.14
        	Psi		                472.09	164.51
        	Nonpositional Psi		270.69	145.50
        	composite (66% s/l)		1469.86	1356.37
        	weighted average		4686.22	10519.85
        	Relative (Invuln = 1)		18.20	16.80
				
60 second surv	Smash		                7752.54	22587.69
        	Lethal		                7752.54	22587.69
        	Fire		                860.48	3142.55
        	Cold		                860.48	3142.55
        	Energy		                12449.94	4455.84
        	Negative		        2489.99	4455.84
        	Toxic		                374.35	363.74
        	Psi		                615.46	247.12
        	Nonpositional Psi		352.89	218.57
        	composite (66% s/l)		1916.27	2037.53
        	weighted average		6109.44	15802.83
        	Relative (Invuln = 1)		12.76	13.57
				
30        	Smash		                10461.52	33914.48
        	Lethal		                10461.52	33914.48
        	Fire		                1161.16	4718.41
        	Cold		                1161.16	4718.41
        	Energy		                16800.34	6690.26
        	Negative		        3360.07	6690.26
        	Toxic		                505.16	546.14
        	Psi		                830.53	371.04
        	Nonpositional Psi		476.21	328.18
        	composite (66% s/l)		2585.87	3059.27
        	weighted average		8244.27	23727.30
        	Relative (Invuln = 1)		10.17	12.03
Sorry for the ugly formatting: this is a lot more difficult in our messed up vBulletin than it was with the old forums, or a hammer, chisel, and rock tablet for that matter. The first column is Electric, and the second Invuln. The important numbers are the relative composite numbers:

Continuous: Relative (Invuln = 1) 27.09 22.07
180 seconds: Relative (Invuln = 1) 18.20 16.80
60 seconds: Relative (Invuln = 1) 12.76 13.57
30 seconds: Relative (Invuln = 1) 10.17 12.03

What this says is that Electric, with a fast recharging Energize, can sustain a higher level of damage than Invuln can: about 23% more. However, on time scales somewhere around 120 seconds or lower, Invuln can sustain higher levels of burst damage on average: 18% more in 30 second bursts.

Its hard to call a winner here, because it depends on what you're most concerned about: sustainable tanking, or alpha strike bursts. With its massively higher health and almost impenetrable smash/lethal performance, Invuln tends to win on burst. With higher healing and regen, Electric will generally win in the long run on long term performance.

Its clear, though, going back to your original assessment:

Quote:
Stone (king of the hill in survivability, by miles and miles)
Elec (expensive though to soft-cap)
Dark (KB can be an issue, plus expensive to soft-cap)
WP (again expensive to soft-cap)
Invuln (almost impossible to totally soft-cap unless giving up a lot)
SD (best for damage)
-- below this, really don't bother
Ice
Fire (don't roll a fire tank, really)
Invuln is a lot better than I think you were originally giving it credit for. Its the only one you suggested had to give up a lot in the build to soft cap, when its much easier to do so for Invuln than say Dark or Electric, but I don't think you own posted Invuln build gives up a lot for soft-capping, and it can be done even easier than that (your Invuln build even has more recharge than your Electric build - I'd say its Electric that is compromising more to get softcapped defenses, and doesn't even get there with Fire/Cold). And overall, your own Invuln build's survivability is comparable to your Electric's survivability, and while Electric has better long-term survivability and energy drain as a secondary damage mitigation effect, Invuln has better alpha strike resilience - something you yourself originally focused on with mitigation - and better defense debuff resistance to maintain those high defenses.

I'd say when it comes to the absolute best Invuln builds verses the absolute best Electric builds possible (which I'm not conceding either of these are), Invuln and Electric are probably comparable. Everywhere else my guess is that Invuln holds on to that strength better than Electric does. Invuln can keep defenses higher longer, and has invincibility for situations with more than one target to further buttress defense, and the better DDR. And as you take resources away, my guess is that Invuln reconfigures to cheaper but still relatively strong builds more gracefully than Electric.

I think an absolute statement about which one is stronger would be difficult to prove.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by slainsteel View Post
You do realize the OP is about 'survivability' right? If you're putting WP and Invuln over Elec/Dark in survivability, I am guessing you need to start IO'ing your tanks.
Maybe. Here is my current WP/Mace build. It is possible I am utilizing my experience with using SoW to place WP higher in the ranking than I should in a no tier 9 contest, but I do not think so.

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If I load up on some more expensive IOs, sacrifice a small amount of attack strength, and change my APP I could likely be more survivable with the following build.

Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
And overall, your own Invuln build's survivability is comparable to your Electric's survivability, and while Electric has better long-term survivability and energy drain as a secondary damage mitigation effect, Invuln has better alpha strike resilience - something you yourself originally focused on with mitigation - and better defense debuff resistance to maintain those high defenses.
I think it is important to note that the Electric build in this comparison does not have energy drain as mitigation, it lacks Power Sink. That is important also from on offensive standpoint, because that Electric build has bad endurance use while Energize is active, and absurdly unplayable end use for the brief Energize downtimes.

That Electic build is, IMO, nearly unplayable.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

At a glance, my mental calculations suggest both Willpower builds are weaker than the posted Invuln and Electric builds, although that is against a single target. They both close that gap and enters the same territory the other two builds are in when RTTC is saturated, the latter especially. Invuln can't gain as much from scaling up invincibility, because that build is already soft capped to everything Invincibility would help with.

There's a chance of the second build exceeding Invuln's and Electric's performance under RTTC saturated levels, but I've now exceeded my calculation limits for a Friday night and will have to look at it more closely when I once again care more about Willpower survivability than I do about my blood alcohol level.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
I think it is important to note that the Electric build in this comparison does not have energy drain as mitigation, it lacks Power Sink. That is important also from on offensive standpoint, because that Electric build has bad endurance use while Energize is active, and absurdly unplayable end use for the brief Energize downtimes.

That Electic build is, IMO, nearly unplayable.
Well, that would be a side issue to the survivability question. I wouldn't go so far as to say its unplayable: if you have a low-offense tanking style, it could work for you. In the days before inventions people had to make hard choices about whether to run in Granite also.

Although I will say that I would never play the posted Electric build. In my opinion it sacrifices too much endurance management and offense. If I wanted Electric's resistances and was willing to spend a couple billion to soft cap myself, and I wanted my endurance to suck, I'd play Dark Armor.

I also would never play Electric without Power Sink, but it does still have some endurance drain as mitigation because it does have lightning field. Its not as good as having Power Sink *and* Lightning field, but it will act to reduce the endurance pool available to critters, which does have some mitigative effect. Probably not too dissimilar from the small mitigative effect of RTTC's debuff. Invuln lacks this type of extra foe debuff mitigation that sets like Dark, Electric, Willpower, and Ice have, which is why I mentioned it in passing.


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Posted

In the battle of Elec vs. Inv I would still take Inv. Inv's exotic resistances are lower, yes, but they're not weak. Middling really. Inv's higher S/L resistance is more significant given the amount of S/L damage in the game. And Inv has Debuff Defense Resistance making it much better when faced with debuffs.

I'm not saying Elec sucks, or doesn't have good points. It does. But Inv is comparable and, in a number of cases, superior in survivability. Elec meanwhile has case where it has superior survivability in addition to a damage aura.

Which is better depends, on the most part, your play style and preferences.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Using the builds as posted, plugging numbers into my survivability spreadsheet generates the following results (assuming I typed everything in correctly):

Code:
Sustainable	Smash		                5043.56	11260.89
(points/s)	Lethal		                5043.56	11260.89
        	Fire		                559.80	1566.69
        	Cold		                559.80	1566.69
        	Energy		                8099.54	2221.42
        	Negative		        1619.91	2221.42
        	Toxic		                243.54	181.34
        	Psi		                400.40	123.20
        	Nonpositional Psi		229.58	108.97
        	composite (66% s/l)		1246.66	1015.79
        	weighted average		3974.61	7878.36
        	Relative (Invuln = 1)		27.09	22.07
				
180 second surv	Smash		                5946.55	15036.49
        	Lethal		                5946.55	15036.49
        	Fire		                660.03	2091.98
        	Cold		                660.03	2091.98
        	Energy		                9549.67	2966.23
        	Negative		        1909.93	2966.23
        	Toxic		                287.15	242.14
        	Psi		                472.09	164.51
        	Nonpositional Psi		270.69	145.50
        	composite (66% s/l)		1469.86	1356.37
        	weighted average		4686.22	10519.85
        	Relative (Invuln = 1)		18.20	16.80
				
60 second surv	Smash		                7752.54	22587.69
        	Lethal		                7752.54	22587.69
        	Fire		                860.48	3142.55
        	Cold		                860.48	3142.55
        	Energy		                12449.94	4455.84
        	Negative		        2489.99	4455.84
        	Toxic		                374.35	363.74
        	Psi		                615.46	247.12
        	Nonpositional Psi		352.89	218.57
        	composite (66% s/l)		1916.27	2037.53
        	weighted average		6109.44	15802.83
        	Relative (Invuln = 1)		12.76	13.57
				
30        	Smash		                10461.52	33914.48
        	Lethal		                10461.52	33914.48
        	Fire		                1161.16	4718.41
        	Cold		                1161.16	4718.41
        	Energy		                16800.34	6690.26
        	Negative		        3360.07	6690.26
        	Toxic		                505.16	546.14
        	Psi		                830.53	371.04
        	Nonpositional Psi		476.21	328.18
        	composite (66% s/l)		2585.87	3059.27
        	weighted average		8244.27	23727.30
        	Relative (Invuln = 1)		10.17	12.03
Sorry for the ugly formatting: this is a lot more difficult in our messed up vBulletin than it was with the old forums, or a hammer, chisel, and rock tablet for that matter. The first column is Electric, and the second Invuln. The important numbers are the relative composite numbers:

Continuous: Relative (Invuln = 1) 27.09 22.07
180 seconds: Relative (Invuln = 1) 18.20 16.80
60 seconds: Relative (Invuln = 1) 12.76 13.57
30 seconds: Relative (Invuln = 1) 10.17 12.03

What this says is that Electric, with a fast recharging Energize, can sustain a higher level of damage than Invuln can: about 23% more. However, on time scales somewhere around 120 seconds or lower, Invuln can sustain higher levels of burst damage on average: 18% more in 30 second bursts.

Its hard to call a winner here, because it depends on what you're most concerned about: sustainable tanking, or alpha strike bursts. With its massively higher health and almost impenetrable smash/lethal performance, Invuln tends to win on burst. With higher healing and regen, Electric will generally win in the long run on long term performance.

Its clear, though, going back to your original assessment:



Invuln is a lot better than I think you were originally giving it credit for. Its the only one you suggested had to give up a lot in the build to soft cap, when its much easier to do so for Invuln than say Dark or Electric, but I don't think you own posted Invuln build gives up a lot for soft-capping, and it can be done even easier than that (your Invuln build even has more recharge than your Electric build - I'd say its Electric that is compromising more to get softcapped defenses, and doesn't even get there with Fire/Cold). And overall, your own Invuln build's survivability is comparable to your Electric's survivability, and while Electric has better long-term survivability and energy drain as a secondary damage mitigation effect, Invuln has better alpha strike resilience - something you yourself originally focused on with mitigation - and better defense debuff resistance to maintain those high defenses.

I'd say when it comes to the absolute best Invuln builds verses the absolute best Electric builds possible (which I'm not conceding either of these are), Invuln and Electric are probably comparable. Everywhere else my guess is that Invuln holds on to that strength better than Electric does. Invuln can keep defenses higher longer, and has invincibility for situations with more than one target to further buttress defense, and the better DDR. And as you take resources away, my guess is that Invuln reconfigures to cheaper but still relatively strong builds more gracefully than Electric.

I think an absolute statement about which one is stronger would be difficult to prove.

Thank you for running the numbers!
So my original post did get invuln wrong, I was under the mistaken impression that it was really hard to soft-cap, especially after I started playing with the build more (reading the data on this thread).

I would still put elec higher in survivability, based on your numbers; but of course, it is a far less versatile tank than invuln.


The only TF I have seen a tank really have issues with burst damage when really well built, has been the STF - in which case, I've seen elec always do much better because of it's high /elec resistance. Almost every other TF, most well built tanks do about the same (again, with the exception of stone, which does considerably better).


What are your thoughts on dark? Considering dark regeneration, I would suppose it would rate higher than everything else on the table? High resistance, easier to soft-cap (not as much as invuln or WP, but more than ice/fire) and a crazy heal power.


Virtue Speed Junkie
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Posted

Can I just ask, not being rude, but, without all the fancy numbers and acronyms... if one of you, my learned colleagues, could explain for me in, complete and utter buffoon terms (thats me), what this softcap and hardcap is you speak about?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoss Eyepatch View Post
Can I just ask, not being rude, but, without all the fancy numbers and acronyms... if one of you, my learned colleagues, could explain for me in, complete and utter buffoon terms (thats me), what this softcap and hardcap is you speak about?
The soft cap refers to defense. Most enemies have a 50% chance to hit you, and the absolute minimum they can have is 5%. That means any amount over 45% defense doesn't really do anything. You can go higher than 45%; the game allows it, there is just very little benefit to doing so. Thus the soft cap is 45%. For more reading, I suggest the softcap guide in my signature.

The hard cap most often refers to resistance, but every quantity in the game has a hard cap. Tanker resistance cannot go above 90%; the game will not allow it. Defense, hit points, regen, run/jump/fly speed... all of these values have a hard cap.

TL;DR Soft means you can go above, just no reason to. Hard means no matter what, you cannot go above.


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Posted

I don't have the time to calculate it right now, but I'm pretty sure my Electric/Dark build is tougher than an Invuln when I have a small defense inspiration active.

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|30B44D46D6B3948CC7A3793C331ECF218FE73FA9E7FCEE|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by slainsteel View Post
The only TF I have seen a tank really have issues with burst damage when really well built, has been the STF - in which case, I've seen elec always do much better because of it's high /elec resistance. Almost every other TF, most well built tanks do about the same (again, with the exception of stone, which does considerably better).
ELM is almost custom made for tanking LR. Not only for the capped En resists and high S/L, but complete immunity to end drain. Even in full Granite + Rooted (so 80%-ish end drain resists), I have to pack a few blue pills in case LR gets in enough lucky Chaingun hits in a row.

Actually, a lot of Incarnate content may see ELM shining more and more. Well, until they start throwing in more Hydra.


An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by slainsteel View Post
High resistance, easier to soft-cap (not as much as invuln or WP, but more than ice/fire)
Not to keep picking, but where do you get the impression that Dark is closer to the soft cap than Ice? I'm not an Ice expert, but sn't Ice relatively easy to soft-cap?


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by slainsteel View Post
Which is why I place them both above invuln on survivability.
If I am wrong, I would really like to know where.
I highlighted it in yellow for you. Really, it's that simple.


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
Not to keep picking, but where do you get the impression that Dark is closer to the soft cap than Ice? I'm not an Ice expert, but sn't Ice relatively easy to soft-cap?
You're right, it's extremely easy to soft-cap Ice to S/L/E/NE. Fully slotting the Ice armors, plus CJ and Weave get you to 39% defense *without* EA. With the Steadfast +def and EA slotted for defense, an Ice tank would be soft-capped with one in range of EA.

Ice has its own weaknesses, notably no native resistance to S/L/E/NE, but difficulty/expense of soft-capping it is definitely *not* one of them.


My Characters

Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_p View Post
Out of curiosity, how's your tank do against Incarnate content? If not in beta, then say the clocks in Tin Mage, or if you tackle all 4 AVs at once at the end (Neuron, Bobcat, 2 Warwalkers)? My softcapped Fire tank gets chewed up pretty badly esp at that last fight (and yeah, I finally "get" to use my T9), but my Stony snoozes through like always.
Did the Tin Mage TF, with my fire/fire/pyre tank, nearly snoozed through the final fight. The only deaths on my team were squishies that though they were melee and got caught in an AoE. Can't save stupid.

btw, my Fire tank does not have near the investment that Severe's tank has, but is at least as tough as a fully SO'd Inv tank, probably more. No purple sets at all, but decent high end IO sets.


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Posted

As someone with a 10+ Billion Elec Tanker biuld, I'll throw my numbers out here.

Res:
S/L 88.65%
En 90% (128% something)
Neg 57%
Fire 68%
Cold 68%
Psi 71%
Toxic 3% (bleh)

* Had capped S/L res but I swapped out a power for one I liked the function on. Could very easyly swap back to the other power and cap S/L at no impact to the biuld.

Def:
S/L 45.56%
M 38%
En/Neg 24.58%
R 22.58%
F/C 19.58%
AoE 19.58%
Psi 19.58%
* Little foggy on the melee final number *



As to whos the better tanker... Inv vs Elec. First of all, Elec doesn't compete with Inv until its packing some Influence investment. A 50 Inv vs 50 Elec with SOs, Inv wins hands down for raw tanking due to the Def. Elec becomes a beast once you soft cap the S/L Def. If your Looking for Top of the Line Tanker and not willing to put the cash into the biuld, you might as well play Inv. (*Style and Theme sidelined... Play what ever you want for fun/theme). Inv. will preform overall at higher levels then Elec will until you hit a certain level of IOing.

From personal experiences in game.... I am going to have to say Elec wins out vs Inv. This is in general content vs basicly anything you throw at them. Inv will beat out Elec on certain types of encounters. Just like Elec will beat out Inv on others (LGTF Elec feels like Granite without the limitations).

Over all my vote... Elec

They both tank differently, and thats important to keep in mind when compareing them.
So its not a difinitive answer in the slightest.

A final note on tanking... I think its VERY important to remember that Mobs engageing a High end Elec tanker will not have End for very long. This is pretty huge when it comes to tanking. When enemies end up standing around due to no end, and taking basic brawl style swings at the tanker what you can "tank" sky rockets.
This is something Inv Cannot replicate no matter how much you spend on the biuld, and its a big factor in tanking capacity vs groups. Not to mentioned drained enemies poss much less threat to the rest of the team.
Granted.. Sapping is of limited us vs AVs and Monsters without help.


On a Side Note:
To Date in Tin Mage. 8 Runs and have not fallen


Main: Praetor Imperium Elec/SS/Mu

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by slainsteel View Post
Invuln (almost impossible to totally soft-cap unless giving up a lot)
Uh. WHAT?!?!?



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by slainsteel View Post
Really? Show me an invuln build that is soft-capped and doesn't lose out on damage and recharge.

By soft-cap, I mean soft-cap to all except Psi, not just s/l.
I dunno. How's this?

Softcapped SLENFC with one enemy in range.
No attack has less than 93% damage improvement.
And you have 97% recharge.
Recovery is 3.5x resting endurance consumption.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- GA-3defTpProc:50(A), RctvArm-ResDam:40(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(3), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(48)
Level 1: Jab -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(11), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(11)
Level 2: Resist Physical Damage -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A), RctvArm-ResDam:40(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(7), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(7), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(50)
Level 4: Haymaker -- Mako-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:50(13), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:50(13), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), Mako-Dam%:50(50)
Level 6: Dull Pain -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(17), RechRdx-I:50(17)
Level 8: Unyielding -- Aegis-ResDam:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(19), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(19)
Level 10: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt:50(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg:50(21), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(21), Zinger-Acc/Rchg:50(23), Zinger-Taunt/Rng:50(23), Zinger-Dam%:50(25)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(25), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(27)
Level 16: Combat Jumping -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(27)
Level 18: Invincibility -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(29)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- Mako-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:50(31), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:50(31), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), Mako-Dam%:50(50)
Level 22: Weave -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(33)
Level 24: Super Jump -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(34), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(34)
Level 28: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(34), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(36), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(37), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(43), GSFC-Build%:50(46)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(36), RechRdx-I:50(36)
Level 32: Resist Energies -- Aegis-ResDam:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(37), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(48)
Level 35: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(37)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(40), Erad-%Dam:30(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(42), RechRdx-I:50(42)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-EndMod:50(A), P'Shift-End%:50(48)
Level 49: Hover -- DefBuff-I:50(A)
Level 50: Spiritual Radial Paragon
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(43), RgnTis-Regen+:30(43)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod:50(40), P'Shift-End%:50(42)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
  • 11% DamageBuff(Smashing)
  • 11% DamageBuff(Lethal)
  • 11% DamageBuff(Fire)
  • 11% DamageBuff(Cold)
  • 11% DamageBuff(Energy)
  • 11% DamageBuff(Negative)
  • 11% DamageBuff(Toxic)
  • 11% DamageBuff(Psionic)
  • 13.19% Defense(Melee)
  • 16.63% Defense(Smashing)
  • 16.63% Defense(Lethal)
  • 16.63% Defense(Fire)
  • 16.63% Defense(Cold)
  • 17.25% Defense(Energy)
  • 17.25% Defense(Negative)
  • 6% Defense(Psionic)
  • 21% Defense(Ranged)
  • 13.19% Defense(AoE)
  • 27.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 19% FlySpeed
  • 119.47 HP (6.375%) HitPoints
  • 19% JumpHeight
  • 19% JumpSpeed
  • MezResist(Held) 6.6%
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 11.55%
  • MezResist(Sleep) 1.65%
  • MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
  • MezResist(Terrorized) 2.75%
  • 4.5% (0.075 End/sec) Recovery
  • 20% (1.565 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 34% RunSpeed

------------
Set Bonuses:
Gladiator's Armor
(Temp Invulnerability)
  • 3% Defense(Melee), 3% Defense(AoE), 3% Defense(Ranged), 3% Defense(Smashing), 3% Defense(Lethal), 3% Defense(Fire), 3% Defense(Cold), 3% Defense(Energy), 3% Defense(Negative), 3% Defense(Psionic)
Reactive Armor
(Temp Invulnerability)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
  • 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.625% Defense(Ranged)
  • 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.625% Defense(Melee)
Kinetic Combat
(Jab)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
  • 28.11 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
  • 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.875% Defense(Melee)
Steadfast Protection
(Resist Physical Damage)
  • 3% Defense(Melee), 3% Defense(AoE), 3% Defense(Ranged), 3% Defense(Smashing), 3% Defense(Lethal), 3% Defense(Fire), 3% Defense(Cold), 3% Defense(Energy), 3% Defense(Negative), 3% Defense(Psionic)
Reactive Armor
(Resist Physical Damage)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
  • 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.625% Defense(Ranged)
  • 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.625% Defense(Melee)
Mako's Bite
(Haymaker)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 3.3%
  • 28.11 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
  • 3% DamageBuff(All)
  • MezResist(Held) 3.3%
  • 3.75% Defense(Ranged), 1.875% Defense(Energy), 1.875% Defense(Negative)
Aegis
(Unyielding)
  • 5% RunSpeed
  • 3.125% Defense(Fire,Cold), 1.563% Defense(AoE)
Perfect Zinger
(Taunt)
  • MezResist(Terrorized) 2.75%
  • 10% (0.782 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
  • 3.125% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.563% Defense(Melee)
Aegis
(Tough)
  • 5% RunSpeed
  • 3.125% Defense(Fire,Cold), 1.563% Defense(AoE)
Luck of the Gambler
(Invincibility)
  • 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Mako's Bite
(Knockout Blow)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 3.3%
  • 28.11 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
  • 3% DamageBuff(All)
  • MezResist(Held) 3.3%
  • 3.75% Defense(Ranged), 1.875% Defense(Energy), 1.875% Defense(Negative)
Luck of the Gambler
(Weave)
  • 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Luck of the Gambler
(Tough Hide)
  • 10% (0.782 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control
(Rage)
  • 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
  • 35.14 HP (1.875%) HitPoints
  • 2.5% (0.042 End/sec) Recovery
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
  • 2.5% Defense(Melee), 1.25% Defense(Lethal), 1.25% Defense(Smashing), 2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative), 2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold)
Aegis
(Resist Energies)
  • 5% RunSpeed
  • 3.125% Defense(Fire,Cold), 1.563% Defense(AoE)
Obliteration
(Foot Stomp)
  • MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
Multi Strike
(Foot Stomp)
  • MezResist(Sleep) 1.65%
Thunderstrike
(Laser Beam Eyes)
  • 2% (0.033 End/sec) Recovery
  • 2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
  • 7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 4% RunSpeed, 4% FlySpeed, 4% JumpSpeed, 4% JumpHeight
  • 2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative)
Performance Shifter
(Physical Perfection)
  • 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
Performance Shifter
(Stamina)
  • 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed




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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by slainsteel View Post
Maybe our standards are different here; 60% rech isn't 'solid' recharge - I have better Invuln builds than that and I still find them inadequate.

Though, I must say, I went back and looked at invuln again after this thread, and it is actually rather good. If I wasn't going for pure survivability, it looks like a good option.

Though, when it comes to pure survivability, on really expensive builds, elec/dark still out-do it.

Sorry, but for a tank, recharge comes DEAD FREAKIN' LAST in terms of survivability considerations.

Defense > Resist > +HP > Regen/Heal > +Damage > +Recharge



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by slainsteel View Post
Did he get the T3's while doing the TF? Or bought them from the market?
If they came from the TF then it's fair game.
Completely and utterly irrelevant. Whether they come from that particular TF, were on-hand beforehand from other TFs, came from SG stores, were bought on the market, etc. It doesn't matter.

Your ideas of "fair game" are laughable. There's only "What works" and "What doesn't work". The latter usually involves you frenching floorboards.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
Uh. WHAT?!?!?
This is why it helps to read the full thread before posting (something I myself don't do at times)
I already conceded a while ago that Invuln is easier to soft-cap than /elec and /dark.


Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
Completely and utterly irrelevant. Whether they come from that particular TF, were on-hand beforehand from other TFs, came from SG stores, were bought on the market, etc. It doesn't matter.

Your ideas of "fair game" are laughable. There's only "What works" and "What doesn't work". The latter usually involves you frenching floorboards.
*sigh*
Really, next time, read the rest of the thread before posting; honestly, a _really good idea :-\


Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
Sorry, but for a tank, recharge comes DEAD FREAKIN' LAST in terms of survivability considerations.

Defense > Resist > +HP > Regen/Heal > +Damage > +Recharge
The value (or lack thereof) for recharge depends on the set. Fire and Dark want those heals recharging as fast as possible. For WP, yeah, recharge is pretty useless.


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syntax42 View Post
I don't have the time to calculate it right now, but I'm pretty sure my Electric/Dark build is tougher than an Invuln when I have a small defense inspiration active.

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Okay. So you're good for 20 minutes. Then what?



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Posted

Buff Inv then?



ok i'll bite...
Cap s/l/c/f/e/n defense
36% f/c res
33.5 e/n res
386% regen
47.5% recharge before hasten
44.9% heal every 11-13 seconds

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