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Wow, that must've taken some patience. Great work by that guy.|
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
Well, now you do.
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And um now to the point, people think that this was possible because of Fiera Aura, and not the massive number of T3 insp's used?
It's like saying, "An emp/ice fender just solo'ed the ITF; took 87 hours and 500m worth of insp's only! emp/ice is SO awesome"
Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
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Went through it; it's kinda for n00bs, isn't it?|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Uh...someone named Call Me Awesome posts in your thread with huge links in his signature to two Invulnerability guides and you want a pointer to "CMA's" guide to Invulnerability?
Look, my own impression of the guide AND the set aside, that's been one of the most talked-about and recommended guides on the forums for a long time. The indication that you're unfamiliar with it says volumes in itself. Yeah, Brutes aren't especially tanks. |
I am not sure what you're referring to in that guide that would change what I stated on tank survivability?
Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
I think his 300 DPS build had something to do with it, too, which has everything to do with Fire Aura... but little to do with the objective of this thread. I just posted the link because someone had referred to it: I consider it off topic.
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Slain, you're so off the page and away from what people know about Tanker sets, it's rather hard to respond to you. These threads get thrown out all the time, and people always throw Stone, Invlun, and Willpower in the top three, while agreeing that any set can tank well.
Your attitude toward Invuln just makes me question your judgement even more... it's really not that hard to softcap, and you saying it is compared to Electric just baffles me even more. It feels a lot more to me like you have a preference for a set and are doing anything you can to justify that preference. It gets even weirder when we're talking about survivability and someone gives you a build that has good global recharge in it, and you discount it as not enough for some reason.
Your lack of faith in Ice and Fiery is just... disturbing, too. Do you have any experience with either set? I'm rather dubious if you do, as everything you say goes against their numbers, what I have experienced with them, and what many others have experienced with them. You're going to have to make a stronger case for your points than questioning guides and ideas that have been around for a long while, and are based on the numbers you can see for the sets, and in-game experience.
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Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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They can have my fire tanks when they pry them from my cold dead hands. |
Originally Posted by Severe
no one should ever roll a fire tank....EVER!!
let me be the only one please and thank you. |
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Slain, you're so off the page and away from what people know about Tanker sets, it's rather hard to respond to you. These threads get thrown out all the time, and people always throw Stone, Invlun, and Willpower in the top three, while agreeing that any set can tank well.
Your attitude toward Invuln just makes me question your judgement even more... it's really not that hard to softcap, and you saying it is compared to Electric just baffles me even more. It feels a lot more to me like you have a preference for a set and are doing anything you can to justify that preference. It gets even weirder when we're talking about survivability and someone gives you a build that has good global recharge in it, and you discount it as not enough for some reason. Your lack of faith in Ice and Fiery is just... disturbing, too. Do you have any experience with either set? I'm rather dubious if you do, as everything you say goes against their numbers, what I have experienced with them, and what many others have experienced with them. You're going to have to make a stronger case for your points than questioning guides and ideas that have been around for a long while, and are based on the numbers you can see for the sets, and in-game experience. |
I didn't say the guide was wrong, I just said it doesn't tell me anything new.
Tell you what, I'll just drop 'best tank' argument completely, too many variables to count. Going on just survivability, let me put it down this way,
To have great survivability, you need great resistance, defense and regen.
Past capped defense, ideally in just s/l/e/n, resistance is the second most important factor, again, in s/l/e/n. If we all agree till here, let's go further.
You can cap almost every tank to s/l/e/n; after which what counts is resistance.
Invuln, though with great s/l resistance, has low e/n; which makes it's survivability on a capped tank, lesser than that of an elec/dark (if you take and slot tough on all the builds). Other than that, dark/elec also have self heals, which I am guessing helps survivability too?
Which is why I place them both above invuln on survivability.
If I am wrong, I would really like to know where.
About WP, I place it lower than invuln and the other two again, because of the resistance gaps; it does have great regen, mine goes up to close to 95hp/s with the rare alpha; but regen only counts 'if' you survive. Considering with careful play, one typically would, I find the regen on WP compelling, which is why I think it's a toss up between WP and invuln.
But since the resistance is lacking on WP, I am not sure how it's survivability would be considered higher.
Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
Quote:
Um, really? You do know that Dark & Elec both start with either no or very little defense so you have to build it from scratch? Invuln on the other hand starts with ~17% typed defense to all but Psi with one mob in melee if you slot Invincibility and Tough Hide... ~25% typed defense to all but Psi including Weave. Add the Steadfast unique and you're at ~28% defense to all but Psi. That's only 17% from the soft cap and that's before you start looking for further set bonuses. Electric would need to find another 34% in set bonuses to soft cap assuming the Steadfast and slotted Weave... more than twice the bonus that Invuln needs.|
Originally Posted by slainsteel
I didn't say the guide was wrong, I just said it doesn't tell me anything new.
Tell you what, I'll just drop 'best tank' argument completely, too many variables to count. Going on just survivability, let me put it down this way, To have great survivability, you need great resistance, defense and regen. Past capped defense, ideally in just s/l/e/n, resistance is the second most important factor, again, in s/l/e/n. If we all agree till here, let's go further. You can cap almost every tank to s/l/e/n; after which what counts is resistance. Invuln, though with great s/l resistance, has low e/n; which makes it's survivability on a capped tank, lesser than that of an elec/dark (if you take and slot tough on all the builds). Other than that, dark/elec also have self heals, which I am guessing helps survivability too? |
<edit to fix my numbers above>
Yes, Dark has Dark Regeneration, the most massive heal in the game... that's a sizeable chunk of it's durability right there. Nobody will question that Dark's heal is awesome. Elec has Energize, a 48% heal with a 30 second duration 190% regen bonus (slotted). On the other hand have you heard of a power called Dull Pain? You know, Invuln's tier 3 power that when slotted provides an 80% heal and a 60% hit point buff? Of course once you've managed to do the "difficult" task of soft capping that Invuln tanker you won't need it much. In the last week I've tanked the ITF, Apex, Tin Mage, Numina, Kahn, STF and Manticore with my Inv/Stone tanker. In the ITF I've used Dull Pain exactly ONCE. I used it twice in Tin Mage and once in the STF. Once an Invuln's build matures Dull Pain is a backup; not anything you'll need on a regular basis.
If you can add significant amounts of defense to Dark & Elec then they're quite good sets but they're both considerably harder to soft cap than Invuln. Additionally Invuln has 50% defense debuff resistance making it less likely to suffer from a cascading defense failure... something Dark & Elec both totally lack.
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Which is why I place them both above invuln on survivability. If I am wrong, I would really like to know where. About WP, I place it lower than invuln and the other two again, because of the resistance gaps; it does have great regen, mine goes up to close to 95hp/s with the rare alpha; but regen only counts 'if' you survive. Considering with careful play, one typically would, I find the regen on WP compelling, which is why I think it's a toss up between WP and invuln. But since the resistance is lacking on WP, I am not sure how it's survivability would be considered higher. |
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
..and everyone has been telling me that while also saying, invuln is a 'cheaper' tank; still don't get how it is 'better'?
I _started my premise with the fact that you'll at least cap s/l/e/n on all the tanks; since that is quite possible with sets and no inherrent defense power.
Half your post was about defense again; which I already said, is going to be capped on the important types on all sets, so I don't get it. How am I wrong?
Are you claiming that invuln s/l/e/n resistance is higher than that of an elec; or are you telling me that "after" def cap, this resistance doesn't make much of a difference?
I am looking at heals and regen as secondary attributes - only mentioning them for Dark/Elec to clarify that they aren't really losing out on heal/regen.
I am not even claiming anymore that I am 100% right, I am just asking 'how' I am wrong.
My point:
- Def cap can be reached on all tanks, next most important thing for survivability is resistance, which elec/dark have more of (on high end TF's, s/l/e/n being the most important ones)
- Invuln is not hard to soft-cap
- It's cheap to soft-cap
- Everyone says invuln is great, so it has to be better
- You know nothing about tanks
See my dilemma?
Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
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In my opinion, its in not factoring in +Health into your thinking. Assuming everyone has all the accolades, an Electric tanker will have +20% health, while an Invuln tanker will hit the cap with Dull Pain at about +71% health. Normalizing that difference, if you're going to compare Invuln resistances to Electric resistances, then the apples to apples comparison for Invuln's resistances should be something closer to about: 93% smash/lethal (yes: that is higher than the tanker res cap - that's due to being capped s/l + having higher health), and about 52-53% f/c/e/n/t. My guess is that Electric resistances end up for most builds with tough somewhere around 79% s/l, 56% f/c/psi. 90% energy, 48% negative. Electric wins on energy and psi, loses on smash, lethal and toxic, and basically draws on fire, cold, and negative. That is not an obvious net win for Electric. Its actually a net loss.|
Originally Posted by slainsteel
I didn't say the guide was wrong, I just said it doesn't tell me anything new.
Tell you what, I'll just drop 'best tank' argument completely, too many variables to count. Going on just survivability, let me put it down this way, To have great survivability, you need great resistance, defense and regen. Past capped defense, ideally in just s/l/e/n, resistance is the second most important factor, again, in s/l/e/n. If we all agree till here, let's go further. You can cap almost every tank to s/l/e/n; after which what counts is resistance. Invuln, though with great s/l resistance, has low e/n; which makes it's survivability on a capped tank, lesser than that of an elec/dark (if you take and slot tough on all the builds). Other than that, dark/elec also have self heals, which I am guessing helps survivability too? Which is why I place them both above invuln on survivability. If I am wrong, I would really like to know where. |
Where Electric might edge out Invuln is on Energize's heal or Power Sink's effects, but you dismissed healing and didn't mention endurance drain. You specifically focused on the damage mitigation effects of defense and resistance, and +health is effectively a damage resistive effect. Even factoring in the max health cap, the Dull Pain advantage equates to a significant strength over Electric Armor in the direct damage mitigation area outside of heals and regeneration.
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That's not true. An Electric Tank can take Weave and a Steadfast, too. The only def Elec Armor needs to account for is Invincibility and Tough Hide (~17.16% with 1 target). That's still a significant portion, mind you.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Um, really? You do know that Dark & Elec both start with either no or very little defense so you have to build it from scratch? Invuln on the other hand starts with ~17% typed defense to all but Psi with one mob in melee if you slot Invincibility and Tough Hide... ~25% typed defense to all but Psi including Weave. Add the Steadfast unique and you're at ~28% defense to all but Psi. That's only 12% from the soft cap and that's before you start looking for further set bonuses. Electric would need to find another 25% in set bonuses to soft cap... more than twice the bonus that Invuln needs.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In my opinion, its in not factoring in +Health into your thinking. Assuming everyone has all the accolades, an Electric tanker will have +20% health, while an Invuln tanker will hit the cap with Dull Pain at about +71% health. Normalizing that difference, if you're going to compare Invuln resistances to Electric resistances, then the apples to apples comparison for Invuln's resistances should be something closer to about: 93% smash/lethal (yes: that is higher than the tanker res cap - that's due to being capped s/l + having higher health), and about 52-53% f/c/e/n/t. My guess is that Electric resistances end up for most builds with tough somewhere around 79% s/l, 56% f/c/psi. 90% energy, 48% negative. Electric wins on energy and psi, loses on smash, lethal and toxic, and basically draws on fire, cold, and negative. That is not an obvious net win for Electric. Its actually a net loss.
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[edit: To be more specific, the MaxHP change went live in Issue 18, along with Bruising.]
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I like numbers |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In my opinion, its in not factoring in +Health into your thinking. Assuming everyone has all the accolades, an Electric tanker will have +20% health, while an Invuln tanker will hit the cap with Dull Pain at about +71% health. Normalizing that difference, if you're going to compare Invuln resistances to Electric resistances, then the apples to apples comparison for Invuln's resistances should be something closer to about: 93% smash/lethal (yes: that is higher than the tanker res cap - that's due to being capped s/l + having higher health), and about 52-53% f/c/e/n/t. My guess is that Electric resistances end up for most builds with tough somewhere around 79% s/l, 56% f/c/psi. 90% energy, 48% negative. Electric wins on energy and psi, loses on smash, lethal and toxic, and basically draws on fire, cold, and negative. That is not an obvious net win for Electric. Its actually a net loss.
Where Electric might edge out Invuln is on Energize's heal or Power Sink's effects, but you dismissed healing and didn't mention endurance drain. You specifically focused on the damage mitigation effects of defense and resistance, and +health is effectively a damage resistive effect. Even factoring in the max health cap, the Dull Pain advantage equates to a significant strength over Electric Armor in the direct damage mitigation area outside of heals and regeneration. |
So when I dismissed healing, I was essentially dismissing healing/regen and max health. If you bring one into the picture, you have to bring all three.
The elec tank build I've made is,
- 81% s/l resist
- 90% elec resist/51% negative resist
- 58% Fire/Cold resist
- Energize comes up every 37 seconds and heals for 54% hp
- 479% regen with energize
- 130% from tanker base
Looking at these numbers, if you factor in DP, assuming it's perma, and well slotted, the invuln tank probably has a 80% heal every 1m10s or so, and 60% more hp; but he has no real +regen power other than health.
If you factor that in, the hp gap between Invuln and Elec lowers; and with resistances where they are for my build, would put elec back on top.
I believe you had come up with a formula in which you could plug-in resitance/defense/hp/regen in and get a total number for survivability that could be used in comparison? If so, we could just use that.
I also believe either you or someone else came up with a formula to convert heals to regen, that could factor in the heals.
Ideally, this should not be determined this way, by banter, opinions and individual game play experiences; I trust numbers more than anything else.
Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
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That slipped my mind: in fact that means the tanker cap is about +88.6%, and an Invuln can fully benefit from DP and accolades. That would increase the Invuln +health edge from about 42.5% to about 50%. It wouldn't change the basic point, but it would shift the numbers slightly more in invuln's favor.
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Originally Posted by Sarrate
I was about to raise this exact point on Invuln's +MaxHP, but you beat me to it. Of course, it would factor slightly more in Invuln's favor because the Tanker HP cap was raised from ~3212 to ~3534.
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Quote:
Yes and no. Dull Pain has a heal, but discounting that the +health in Dull Pain can be viewed as a resistive-like damage mitigation. It doesn't stack with resistance per se, but it acts like resistance in most other respects. Mathematically speaking, +health is usually viewed as an independent damage mitigation ratio, not a boost to regen. In absolute numbers it boosts regen, but not in a percentage sense which is how most calculations are done.|
Originally Posted by slainsteel
So when I dismissed healing, I was essentially dismissing healing/regen and max health. If you bring one into the picture, you have to bring all three.
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To put it another way, if we ignore the effect of heals, then something with 60% more health takes 60% more damage to kill, all other things being equal. That's how we usually view +health: as essentially reducing the impact of damage, similar to how resistance works (but independently).
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The elec tank build I've made is,
Looking at these numbers, if you factor in DP, assuming it's perma, and well slotted, the invuln tank probably has a 80% heal every 1m10s or so, and 60% more hp; but he has no real +regen power other than health. If you factor that in, the hp gap between Invuln and Elec lowers; and with resistances where they are for my build, would put elec back on top. I believe you had come up with a formula in which you could plug-in resitance/defense/hp/regen in and get a total number for survivability that could be used in comparison? If so, we could just use that. |
A Mids block would be useful, to extract the type-by-type numbers, for each build.
Another reason for the Mids block would be to validate certain numbers. For example, a 37 second recharge on Energize is 324% total recharge. That implies global recharge on the order of 124%. But perma-hasten requires global recharge closer to 175%, which suggests your build doesn't have perma-hasten. Its probably closer to 24 seconds of downtime on Hasten, which means the average recharge on Energize is closer to 39 seconds, with the worst case scenario being about 42 seconds. Stuff like that can be significant.
At a glance, though, Energize would make that build tend to beat a strong Invuln build in long term survivability if that build is soft-capped. If its not, Invuln will tend to have the advantage in defense given it has both tough hide and invincibility, and its then anyone's game.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Yes and no. Dull Pain has a heal, but discounting that the +health in Dull Pain can be viewed as a resistive-like damage mitigation. It doesn't stack with resistance per se, but it acts like resistance in most other respects. Mathematically speaking, +health is usually viewed as an independent damage mitigation ratio, not a boost to regen. In absolute numbers it boosts regen, but not in a percentage sense which is how most calculations are done.
To put it another way, if we ignore the effect of heals, then something with 60% more health takes 60% more damage to kill, all other things being equal. That's how we usually view +health: as essentially reducing the impact of damage, similar to how resistance works (but independently). Not so much a formula, but I do have a spreadsheet. The question would be whether, given those numbers above, you also have soft-capped defense, and given that seems to be a potentially very expensive custom build, there would need to be a comparable Invuln build to compare to. A Mids block would be useful, to extract the type-by-type numbers, for each build. Another reason for the Mids block would be to validate certain numbers. For example, a 37 second recharge on Energize is 324% total recharge. That implies global recharge on the order of 124%. But perma-hasten requires global recharge closer to 175%, which suggests your build doesn't have perma-hasten. Its probably closer to 24 seconds of downtime on Hasten, which means the average recharge on Energize is closer to 39 seconds, with the worst case scenario being about 42 seconds. Stuff like that can be significant. At a glance, though, Energize would make that build tend to beat a strong Invuln build in long term survivability if that build is soft-capped. If its not, Invuln will tend to have the advantage in defense given it has both tough hide and invincibility, and its then anyone's game. |
I have both builds - I am using the spiritual T4 on both; give me about 10 minutes and I'll post both blobs here, I need to fixup the invul to get better regen (started working on the invuln again after the last few posts).
Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
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Assuming that both Tankers have 45% def (ie: not factoring it in at all to these calculations, as they'd inflate numbers equally) and that the Invuln Tanker has the same regen as you w/o Energize (~263%) and has base res numbers to exotics (~31.2%, since I don't know where your higher than slotted res - Cardiac or set bonuses), a quick spreadsheet looks like this:|
Originally Posted by slainsteel
The elec tank build I've made is,
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Code:
Effective HP Effective Regen Elec Inv Elec Invuln s/l 12828.95 35340 377.99 533.07 e 24375 5136.63 718.18 77.48 ne 4974.49 5136.63 146.57 77.48 f/c 5803.57 5136.63 170.99 77.48
The thing that I'd give Invuln a lot of credit for is having def resistance and Invincibility's scaling to provide a buffer against def debuffs (and tohit buffs) in large groups.
[edit: Whoops, I just realized I assumed you were softcapping to f/c, too. If you're not, Invuln will beat Elec Armor for those two, as well. (Assuming pure f/c damage.)]
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I think I may not have phrased that quite right and I see I goofed. Ack, math... why was I figuring 40% instead of 45%????|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
That's not true. An Electric Tank can take Weave and a Steadfast, too. The only def Elec Armor needs to account for is Invincibility and Tough Hide (~17.16% with 1 target). That's still a significant portion, mind you.
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Brain fart.Anyway, to correct my figures Invuln starts with a base with slotted Invincibility, Tough Hide and Weave of ~25% while Electric starts out with a base assuming slotted Weave of 7.8%. That means Invuln needs to find, with set bonuses, 20% defense while Electric needs to find 37.2% defense.
Getting to Slainsteel's comment
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..and everyone has been telling me that while also saying, invuln is a 'cheaper' tank; still don't get how it is 'better'? I _started my premise with the fact that you'll at least cap s/l/e/n on all the tanks; since that is quite possible with sets and no inherrent defense power. |
The fact is that non-defense tankers are NOT going to manage to soft cap more than one position or type absent some serious build compromises or multi-MULTI billion inf builds. Invuln CAN do this without any compromises in the build.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Alright, so made a few adjustments to my invuln build and my elec build for regen - changed around few things to give them both pretty high regen.
Kept the same primary for both; using elec since it has pretty good mitigation and the AoE's allow slotting some pretty nice +def bonuses - plus /elec is my favorite on tanks anyway
Both these tanks are done up for maximum survivability to s/l/e/n; totally ignoring f/c _and psi damage. My stoney has something like 5% psi def and resistance and he yet has to face a problem.
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Code:
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Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
Quote:
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Originally Posted by slainsteel
Fire (don't roll a fire tank, really)
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Well for the purposes of OPs request that's applicable, but for general tanking advice it isn't, especially following Castle's buffs to the primary last year.
Like some others have mentioned, it is possible with some investment to do all the things on a Fiery Aura tank that you could with any other set, like tank Hamidon, solo tank Recluse (stf), both of which I've done on my fire/mace, along with likely everything else on your list of 'fire tanks can't do this'.
I think you were trying to be helpful to OP, but a fire tank can be a beast, so a blanket statement to avoid the set like the plague is not solid advice.
.
So lets address the issue of how expensive it is to build a strong Invuln relative to other sets. I took your Invuln build and just shuffled things around a little bit, knocking out both PvP recipes (+3% defense, +3% resist) which cuts the cost of the build practically in half. It still is soft-capped to s/l/e/n, and s/l/f/c/e/n is still in all cases higher than your Electric build. Psionic, which started off slightly higher in your Invuln build than your Electric build is now a hair under. Resists are now a bit lower with the removal of the 3% resist IO but with the shuffling S/L is still capped.
Technically Hasten is no longer perma in my variant, but its only got a gap of about a second or so.
I'm sure someone else could do better, especially with a clean rebuild, but this was just a quick proof of concept that at least with regard to how much effort it takes to get Invuln to the same high performance as your Electric build gets to, the costs are not higher, they are lower.
As to the relative strengths of the build, I'll be looking at that next.
Code:
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Quote:
you forget the only arguement from anyone not a fire tank is it costs too much money to make a beast. this is why i dont call invul "better" then a fire tank but "easier".
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Originally Posted by Acemace
Well for the purposes of OPs request that's applicable, but for general tanking advice it isn't, especially following Castle's buffs to the primary last year.
Like some others have mentioned, it is possible with some investment to do all the things on a Fiery Aura tank that you could with any other set, like tank Hamidon, solo tank Recluse (stf), both of which I've done on my fire/mace, along with likely everything else on your list of 'fire tanks can't do this'. I think you were trying to be helpful to OP, but a fire tank can be a beast, so a blanket statement to avoid the set like the plague is not solid advice. . |
I'm just throwing this out there, but is the Elec/Elec build even functional? Accuracy is abyssmal, for starters. Assuming you find a way to hit, I don't see any sort of attack chain in the build, so the DPS will be worthless. It softcapped S/L/E/N, sure, but the cost was WAY too high in both influence and lost set bonuses elsewhere.
Looking over the powers available, I just don't see a viable S/L/E/N-softcapped build coming out of Elec/Elec. It'd be better to softcap S/L and get within a small purple of E/N/F/C. You could maintain great survivability working from that angle and still keep some pretense of offense, but it wouldn't be in the same league as Stone, Invuln, WP or Dark.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
So lets address the issue of how expensive it is to build a strong Invuln relative to other sets. I took your Invuln build and just shuffled things around a little bit, knocking out both PvP recipes (+3% defense, +3% resist) which cuts the cost of the build practically in half. It still is soft-capped to s/l/e/n, and s/l/f/c/e/n is still in all cases higher than your Electric build. Psionic, which started off slightly higher in your Invuln build than your Electric build is now a hair under. Resists are now a bit lower with the removal of the 3% resist IO but with the shuffling S/L is still capped.
Technically Hasten is no longer perma in my variant, but its only got a gap of about a second or so. I'm sure someone else could do better, especially with a clean rebuild, but this was just a quick proof of concept that at least with regard to how much effort it takes to get Invuln to the same high performance as your Electric build gets to, the costs are not higher, they are lower. As to the relative strengths of the build, I'll be looking at that next. Code:
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I never said Elec is cheap, I said it's more survivable. In fact, throughout the thread (except my initial post) I've argued that it's cheaper to soft-cap an invuln.
Do keep the builds expensive - I wanted to verify/find out, if elec is still worth it despite spending billions upon billions on the build (I do have fully soft-capped invuln builds that are about a billion or so, but you said you wanted to compare 'comparable' builds
)
Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by streetlight
I'm just throwing this out there, but is the Elec/Elec build even functional? Accuracy is abyssmal, for starters. Assuming you find a way to hit, I don't see any sort of attack chain in the build, so the DPS will be worthless. It softcapped S/L/E/N, sure, but the cost was WAY too high in both influence and lost set bonuses elsewhere.
Looking over the powers available, I just don't see a viable S/L/E/N-softcapped build coming out of Elec/Elec. It'd be better to softcap S/L and get within a small purple of E/N/F/C. You could maintain great survivability working from that angle and still keep some pretense of offense, but it wouldn't be in the same league as Stone, Invuln, WP or Dark. |
If I were to build my elec/elec, I'd lower the def to the 40's and simple keep a few small purple's around - but this discussion is around higher survivability of a toon solo, so I assuming it doesn't really mean inspirations. On the flip side, if I were to play an invuln, I'd just keep a few oranges around (though it would take a lot more oranges to cover the resist gap that in would take the elec to cover the def gap).
Either way, to keep things fair, I made both the builds focus on survivability.
Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
I am building up a pure +rech HP and Regen elec/elec tanker. it is 50 but only just started slotting. by the time im done Energize will be perma. and despite that, I still think my invuln tank which itself isnt finished yet either, can survive a whole lot better than my elec can.
doesn't mean the elec aint fun though ;D
Oh, I also find I can mob maul on my fire/fire/pyre faster than I can on my SD/Elec, even though they both have a lot of recharge, but I digress
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Combat Kangaroo Rifle/Energy/Mace/Spiritual Blaster
Kung Fu Kangaroo Martial Arts/Reflexes/Body/Spiritual Scrapper
Tribal Arc Shield/Elec/Mu/Spiritual Tanker
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