Dark Astoria Backstory
By
AzureSkyCiel,
Posted on: 2011-03-23 20:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
The canon lore is conflicted about times also. There was a post discussing timeline conflicts about DA a few months. Even the NPCs in DA talk about events even more current than 40s. Since they are supposed to be souls/spirits of folks from the time DA went dark, it is a big zone plot hole.
I am taking my sig to MWO and MWT. Let them wonder what it means.
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According to the Paragon Wiki page on Dark Astoria:
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Originally Posted by Shoqwave
Hi all! I wanted to write a backstory for my character, and wanted to know what year Dark Astoria went Dark. I have been playing my character as having fractured memories, but also wanted a year of reference for memories to return; If it went Dark in the 40's, then having my character remembering 80's stuff seems anachronistic...Worse the other way around.
Hope you guys can help out. The Deadwing Lullabye, Virtue |
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Once an idyllic commercial center, much like Talos Island and Steel Canyon, this area thrived as people bustled about their daily lives. Even the presence of the pastoral Moth Cemetery did not detract from the beauty of this area. The Rikti Invasion came and went, and the people in this peaceful neighborhood were relatively untouched by the devastation. However, while the Heroes of Paragon were busy rebuilding the city, the trickster god of the Banished Pantheon stumbled upon something... beneath the sod and graves of Moth Cemetery lay an ancient god, far older than those of the Pantheon, and far more powerful. Wishing to use this power to release him and his fellow gods, he ordered all of his followers to invade the area and seize control of it. The city authorities and Heroes, already reduced in number and staggering from the Rikti onslaught, had no choice but to relinquish the area to the Pantheon and wall it off. Within the walls, the army of Husks and Shaman ravaged the zone, tore the ground apart and sacrificed every man, woman and child in their efforts to wake the god Mot. But all their efforts were in vain. To this day, Lughebu's soldiers search for a way to wake the sleeper, while the spirits of those who once lived there wander about, unable to sleep. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
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Quote:
In the six years I have been playing, there were a few threads on this topic. Whether they are lost themselves, I dunno, but briefly:|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
According to the Paragon Wiki page on Dark Astoria:That would place it somewhere between November 2002 and May 2004. However, i seem to recall reading some lore in other places that implies Astoria became Dark Astoria decades ago...
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There is a plaque in DA that reads: "When the Freedom Phalanx became an officially recognized Super Group in 1953, the hero Vambrace made a pledge. 'Dark Astoria will be restored to its natural state,' he said. 'The Freedom Phalanx is commited to saving every part of Paragon City, even those that may seem lost. "
Someone has pointed out that in the LGTF, Infernia says, "I'm sure dad kept the family place in Downtown Astoria."
So Astoria is dark and needing restoration in 1953, but Infernia lives there as of the Omega Gambit in 2002, but as of 2004, DA is as we now see it.
My concise take on it:
The Freedom Phalanx succeeded in restoring Astoria in the mid-50s, but when so many superheroes died in the first Rikti Invasion, there was nothing to stop the forces that had plunged it into darkness before from returning (or perhaps a new, worse group) and DA is again in darkness. That would explain why we have the same architecture and Vanguard signs in DA: it went dark again after the 2002 invasion.
One of my own heroes was born and raised in Astoria. He went out of town on business and returned to find Astoria as it is and everyone he cared for gone. He has vowed to again lift the darkness in Astoria.
That is my fast explanation on it.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
I tend to suspect that it's gone through "cycles" of darkening. Which of course would make for interesting backstory and arcs and such to go through. Which means it'll probably be tied to the overflow of the Well and Recluse's earwax problem instead.
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That is because everything that goes wrong has the Well and Recluse's earwax problem to blame.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I tend to suspect that it's gone through "cycles" of darkening. Which of course would make for interesting backstory and arcs and such to go through. Which means it'll probably be tied to the overflow of the Well and Recluse's earwax problem instead.
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Even Nemesis Plots are caused, ultimately, by the Well.
The Well, is the script writer for evil plots.
I wonder which of the Devs is going to use "The Well" as a red name...
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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Oh why not, those slumbering ancient gods under Sharkhead already have. Well ok, the Leviathan has never been established as a god per se, but it's a really really big shark, which is pretty scary until it turns out that even the Well can't resist the lure of sharks with frickin' lasers on their heads. Which should prove to anyone who still has doubts that it's evil.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I tend to suspect that it's gone through "cycles" of darkening. Which of course would make for interesting backstory and arcs and such to go through. Which means it'll probably be tied to the overflow of the Well and Recluse's earwax problem instead.
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As I recall, this quote is from somewhere in the official City of Heroes materials on Dark Astoria, either in the online history of Paragon City that came out with the game in 2004 (which I read when I started playing in 2005) or one of the zone background articles that came out in what, "The Paragon Times" or whatever the official Dev publication was?|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
According to the Paragon Wiki page on Dark Astoria:
"The city authorities and Heroes, already reduced in number and staggering from the Rikti onslaught, had no choice but to relinquish the area to the Pantheon and wall it off. Within the walls, the army of Husks and Shaman ravaged the zone, tore the ground apart and sacrificed every man, woman and child in their efforts to wake the god Mot." |
I took it to be an example of overly dramatic writing and/or a HUGELY jaded perspective. I think the more accurate and plausible narrative would be to reverse the above two sentences in that quote:
The army of Husks and Shaman ravaged the zone, tore the ground apart and sacrificed every man, woman and child in their efforts to wake the god Mot. The city authorities and Heroes, already reduced in number and staggering from the Rikti onslaught, had no choice but to relinquish the area to the Pantheon and wall it off.
Otherwise, you get into a really weird situation where nobody tries to evacuate or help, and in fact, they seal the zone up and prevent any escape by the doomed citizens, which cuts totally against the grain of the theme of "City of Heroes." So I always took it to be a "really big typo" instead of the official posture on what happened. Besides, how accurate can it be without any mention of Recluse's earwax, eh?
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
I like your rewrite better. It saves the messy question of "are the heroes stupid enough to sacrifice the few for the good of the many even though everyone knows human sacrifice only makes evil gods stronger, or are they just callous and lazy?"
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This is one of the few instances where I wish the devs (HEY PROTEAN) would just step in, choose a date, and do some quick rewrite-retconning on plaques and whatnot to get it right.
*sighs*
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
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Quote:
Sometimes I get the feeling that the devs intentionally filled their city with timeline/backstory contradictions, perhaps reflecting the way superhero comics often go through various different origins and retcons and retellings as the decades pass. |
Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
This is one of the few instances where I wish the devs (HEY PROTEAN) would just step in, choose a date, and do some quick rewrite-retconning on plaques and whatnot to get it right.
*sighs* Michelle aka Samuraiko/Dark_Respite |
Each conflict reflects a "scar" in the city- a remnant from a reality-changing event (like the Faultline story). Just as, from a storytelling point of view, certain characters remember what 'really' happened, some artifacts remain behind as well.
Or...
Given the multidimensional aspect of the game, with alternate realities and portal corporation and time-travel. While these often involve our characters encountering alternate realities, there's no reasons why entire REALITIES themselves couldn't collide, overlap, or absorb one another. Imagine stories similar to DC's "Infinite Earths" or marvel's cross-dimension hopping... or even Alamgam Comics' fusion of the two publishers.
"Earth Prime" is what remains from one or more dimensional "collisions." Each of its "parent universes" has its own history, and while Dark Astoria fell in both of them, it fell at different times. When the dimensions merged, their histories intertwined as the new prime world formed and "rewrote" its history as best it could to accommodate the users from both worlds.
These incidents happened infrequently in the past, and our heroes were likely not participants in these, but as the portals to other dimensions draw them closer to earth prime... and as time travel spawns some timeline branches while pruning others... we may see more such issues coming in the future.... maybe even a storm of them.
That's purely speculation.... and coming from a person that dislikes cross-dimension or time travel plotlines in general... but it would:
a) justify rather substantial zone revamps without having to 'destroy' and 'rebuild' them in-story.
b) allow the broadest range of backstory options to the players. Some can validly write of their childhood in Astoria, some can write that its been that way for a while, and some can write of something wholly original.
Remember that week almost a year ago now when Dark Astoria wasn't dark? The fog was gone. It's actually a very beautiful area when you can see it.
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A few people I talked to in game were actually kind of upset about it.|
Originally Posted by Indiramourning
Remember that week almost a year ago now when Dark Astoria wasn't dark? The fog was gone. It's actually a very beautiful area when you can see it.
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Well, first they got their Banisher badge, then they got upset about it.
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Y'know, I like the idea of Dark Astoria going through cycles of darkness. It makes the zone's foreboding seem that much more sinister. Even if the heroes were able to heal it, how long before its plummeted into darkness again?
I actually like the BP a lot and think they could have a lot more done with them and made much tougher. They should span to level 54 at least!!!
Dark Astoria should be a zone where bad things happen!
Thelonious Monk
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You mean besides a 16' zombie puking on you if you wander into the wrong part of the cemetery?
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
I actually like the BP a lot and think they could have a lot more done with them and made much tougher. They should span to level 54 at least!!!
Dark Astoria should be a zone where bad things happen! |
Dr. Todt's theme.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Y'know, I like the idea of Dark Astoria going through cycles of darkness. It makes the zone's foreboding seem that much more sinister. Even if the heroes were able to heal it, how long before its plummeted into darkness again?
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Which would be a nice idea if they can make it like Recluse's Victory(without the pvp aspect)to make it witha mission and timer to revert back to its foggy state! It's prolly been suggested before,not sure. But It would be a nice change of pace and add more depth story wise and population.
-ghoost
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
You mean besides a 16' zombie puking on you if you wander into the wrong part of the cemetery?
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Well... a genuine "hazard zone" with some cool content would be great.
The original concept of Hazard Zones was great except nobody went there cuz there was nothing to do except get killed.
But the Hollows was an excellent hazard zone because there was stuff to do. There was Frostfire and Atta and that remains some of the best content in the game and it's kind of sad that it's run so much less - but back in the day it was almost obligatory. We cut our teeth in the Hollows and for a small zone it sure seems big when you got no travel power.
A proper hazard zone where you can get splattered getting to the target and then having a proper challenge would be great
Thelonious Monk
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If you get a renewable temp pet like you do in RV from it then that'd be great. You could even tie it into the morality system with a repetable arc. Say for a hero you disperse the fog and the pantheon and as a prize you get a shard with a shaman in it to help you. For a vig you bring the fog and pantheon back and you get a shard with a ghost's soul in it to help out. Anywho just a thought.
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Originally Posted by ghoost
Which would be a nice idea if they can make it like Recluse's Victory(without the pvp aspect)to make it witha mission and timer to revert back to its foggy state! It's prolly been suggested before,not sure. But It would be a nice change of pace and add more depth story wise and population.
-ghoost |
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Competitive zones would be a nice change of pace from co-op.
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Originally Posted by ghoost
Which would be a nice idea if they can make it like Recluse's Victory(without the pvp aspect)to make it witha mission and timer to revert back to its foggy state! It's prolly been suggested before,not sure. But It would be a nice change of pace and add more depth story wise and population.
-ghoost |
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We are all, secretly, "The Well".|
Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
I wonder which of the Devs is going to use "The Well" as a red name... |
- Z
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Melancton
There is a plaque in DA that reads: "When the Freedom Phalanx became an officially recognized Super Group in 1953, the hero Vambrace made a pledge. 'Dark Astoria will be restored to its natural state,' he said. 'The Freedom Phalanx is commited to saving every part of Paragon City, even those that may seem lost. "
Someone has pointed out that in the LGTF, Infernia says, "I'm sure dad kept the family place in Downtown Astoria." So Astoria is dark and needing restoration in 1953, but Infernia lives there as of the Omega Gambit in 2002, but as of 2004, DA is as we now see it. My concise take on it: The Freedom Phalanx succeeded in restoring Astoria in the mid-50s, but when so many superheroes died in the first Rikti Invasion, there was nothing to stop the forces that had plunged it into darkness before from returning (or perhaps a new, worse group) and DA is again in darkness. That would explain why we have the same architecture and Vanguard signs in DA: it went dark again after the 2002 invasion. One of my own heroes was born and raised in Astoria. He went out of town on business and returned to find Astoria as it is and everyone he cared for gone. He has vowed to again lift the darkness in Astoria. That is my fast explanation on it. |
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Sometimes I get the feeling that the devs intentionally filled their city with timeline/backstory contradictions, perhaps reflecting the way superhero comics often go through various different origins and retcons and retellings as the decades pass.
Each conflict reflects a "scar" in the city- a remnant from a reality-changing event (like the Faultline story). Just as, from a storytelling point of view, certain characters remember what 'really' happened, some artifacts remain behind as well. Or... Given the multidimensional aspect of the game, with alternate realities and portal corporation and time-travel. While these often involve our characters encountering alternate realities, there's no reasons why entire REALITIES themselves couldn't collide, overlap, or absorb one another. Imagine stories similar to DC's "Infinite Earths" or marvel's cross-dimension hopping... or even Alamgam Comics' fusion of the two publishers. "Earth Prime" is what remains from one or more dimensional "collisions." Each of its "parent universes" has its own history, and while Dark Astoria fell in both of them, it fell at different times. When the dimensions merged, their histories intertwined as the new prime world formed and "rewrote" its history as best it could to accommodate the users from both worlds. These incidents happened infrequently in the past, and our heroes were likely not participants in these, but as the portals to other dimensions draw them closer to earth prime... and as time travel spawns some timeline branches while pruning others... we may see more such issues coming in the future.... maybe even a storm of them. That's purely speculation.... and coming from a person that dislikes cross-dimension or time travel plotlines in general... but it would: a) justify rather substantial zone revamps without having to 'destroy' and 'rebuild' them in-story. b) allow the broadest range of backstory options to the players. Some can validly write of their childhood in Astoria, some can write that its been that way for a while, and some can write of something wholly original. |
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Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
I wonder which of the Devs is going to use "The Well" as a red name...
|
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
We are all, secretly, "The Well".
- Z |
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
Damn, I really need to get back in the groove and shoot my Dark Astoria video. I've got the music and all, I just have no TIME.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
Quote:
So you're all a time-traveling extra-dimensional Nemesis Plot?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
We are all, secretly, "The Well".
- Z |
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Hi all! I wanted to write a backstory for my character, and wanted to know what year Dark Astoria went Dark. I have been playing my character as having fractured memories, but also wanted a year of reference for memories to return; If it went Dark in the 40's, then having my character remembering 80's stuff seems anachronistic...Worse the other way around.
Hope you guys can help out.
The Deadwing Lullabye, Virtue