Bored with the whole Praetoria schtick
By
Aliana Blue,
Posted on: 2011-03-22 06:12 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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This is pretty much my take on it too. Oh well. |
Originally Posted by McNum
Yeah, pretty much this. The 1-20 Praetoria stories are pretty good, the Loyalist/Resistance conflict is fun, and then the story just fizzles out. Next we see the Praetorians they're generic supervillains that would make Lord Recluse go "What, really? You're going with THAT?! Where is your supervillain dignity?" I mean, conquer all of existence? You'll have to excuse me, but my cliché alarm just exploded. Twice. Cole was much more interesting as the guy trying to hold together a post apocalyptic world with an iron fist. That's a great villain. Cole the inter-dimensional conquerer is not.
Add to that the disappointment with the Well of the Furies being tied so closely into Praetoria and then the endgame pretty much becomes pointless. I'm not opposed to big team trials in general, but these just seem smalltime. I can go from stopping Nemesis from taking over the Rikti Homeworld on my own to needing 12 people to raid a hospital. How does that make sense? And "The Well did it" doesn't count. That's an excuse, not an explanation. If we're needing a raid size group to do something, that something had better be on a scale that that needs so many divinely powered superheroes. As far as I'm concerned, the Apex and Tin Mage TFs should have been saved for trials. A full on invasion? Cool! A retaliatory strike? Also cool! It just makes the two coming trials seem so puny in comparison. Then there's the whole army of major threats waiting offscreen like Rularuu, the Leviathan, the Coming Storm, good ol' Nemesis and even Arachnos. But no. All Praetorian for the endgame. And Praetoria got boring several months ago. |
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
quick reply: After much effort I finally, at last and about time too got my elec Controller OUT OF PRAETORIA.
I was so glad to get out that I didnt even bother reading all that crap Cole tried to lecture me with as I hit the door for Paragon. "click/click/click, get outta my face" and my troller left all that behind forever.
Lets move on to something truly interesting, such as a portal to the moon or Atlantis OR ANYWHERE I DON'T HAVE TO FACE VANESSA DEVORE + 10 waves of FIVE VANESSA CLONES as a freaking level 19. Yeah, THATS a recipe for me wanting to go back again and again.... NOT
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Interesting. I did that mission the first time at +1(I was level 18) and smacked her around in short order. She's not very tough. You just have to focus on her and not the clones. I was using my nin/nin stalker too...not exactly the most robust stalker out there. You don't even have to take her life all the way down...
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Lets move on to something truly interesting, such as a portal to the moon or Atlantis OR ANYWHERE I DON'T HAVE TO FACE VANESSA DEVORE + 10 waves of FIVE VANESSA CLONES as a freaking level 19. Yeah, THATS a recipe for me wanting to go back again and again.... NOT
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The weakest Stalker would be far better suited to that encounter than any Controller of that level.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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Try it on any flavor of level 19-ish Controller and let me know how you do. |
Originally Posted by Slashman
Interesting. I did that mission the first time at +1(I was level 18) and smacked her around in short order. She's not very tough. You just have to focus on her and not the clones. I was using my nin/nin stalker too...not exactly the most robust stalker out there. You don't even have to take her life all the way down...
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The problem was not that I wasn't focusing on her, its that I can't take hits from 10+ Vanessas on a level 19 character - especially on a character with no shields whatsoever. I can't carry enough breakfrees to protect myself from ten mezzing/sleeping/whatever Vanessas. I would have assembled a team, but in Praetoria that would have meant facing 30 Vanessas, not just ten: I know how Praetoria rolls. Teams just make it worse.
*abandon mission from contact* Finito.
I read about all of you complaining but we have not had any real contact with the "Players" in Praetoria yet. Tyrant, Anti-Matter, Black Swan, Chimera, Diablique, Dominatrix, Spectra II, Infernal. I could go on....
Give it a chance people. The content we have rec'ved has been level 1-20 not 30-50. Your comments are thoughtless.
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Actually I've found the biggest issue is that the content, in terms of the abilities enemies have, are more suited to level 30+ characters rather than levels 1 to 20. I mean Vanessa pulls tricks rather like Trapdoors, but he's level 50 content, she's level 19/20. She's like the Master Illusionist from hell.|
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
I read about all of you complaining but we have not had any real contact with the "Players" in Praetoria yet. Tyrant, Anti-Matter, Black Swan, Chimera, Diablique, Dominatrix, Spectra II, Infernal. I could go on....
Give it a chance people. The content we have rec'ved has been level 1-20 not 30-50. Your comments are thoughtless. |
The enemies are overdesigned for the level range they're in. There's too much kryptonite in there and you don't tend to have a Plan B available at that range because you don't have all your tools yet.
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Are you soloing content? I did prae content with teams and it was challenging in the underground but above I had no problems with it.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Actually I've found the biggest issue is that the content, in terms of the abilities enemies have, are more suited to level 30+ characters rather than levels 1 to 20. I mean Vanessa pulls tricks rather like Trapdoors, but he's level 50 content, she's level 19/20. She's like the Master Illusionist from hell.
The enemies are overdesigned for the level range they're in. There's too much kryptonite in there and you don't tend to have a Plan B available at that range because you don't have all your tools yet. |
Also, is the AI different for Prae. I thought I read something about Prae having new dev engineering/features.
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Did you try Lucks? Lucks help immensely.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Try it on any flavor of level 19-ish Controller and let me know how you do.
The problem was not that I wasn't focusing on her, its that I can't take hits from 10+ Vanessas on a level 19 character - especially on a character with no shields whatsoever. I can't carry enough breakfrees to protect myself from ten mezzing/sleeping/whatever Vanessas. I would have assembled a team, but in Praetoria that would have meant facing 30 Vanessas, not just ten: I know how Praetoria rolls. Teams just make it worse. *abandon mission from contact* Finito. |
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As I mentioned before, had I went in with a team we probably would have ended up fighting 30-50 Vanessas as opposed to the ten. [I stopped at ten via intentional death, because there was no sense in my level 19 trying to overcome that amount of stacked sleeps and mezzes.... c'mon, lets be realistic here]. |
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
Are you soloing content? I did prae content with teams and it was challenging in the underground but above I had no problems with it.
Also, is the AI different for Prae. I thought I read something about Prae having new dev engineering/features. |
Praetoria is viciously difficult to solo. I find this to be dangerous in that I don't want the rest of CoX to follow suit with new content. I am in fact leaving the Distinguished Competition over this exact issue: unsoloable [and often badly bugged] content. I really like my characters over there but I find extreme hassle to be the opposite of fun. Nor do I like being locked in a room with an Elite Boss and my recharge/regen STOPPED, yes I said literally STOPPED, but that's another game thank you God.
I can't say it enough: I don't want that developer mindset in CoX. Praetoria has it in plenty and let's us not slide down that slippery slope.
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you just said it. Level 19. After a certain level the mobs are enormous. I did that mish recently with no problems with a team and we didn't face 30-50 vanessa's|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
As I mentioned before, had I went in with a team we probably would have ended up fighting 30-50 Vanessas as opposed to the ten. [I stopped at ten via intentional death, because there was no sense in my level 19 trying to overcome that amount of stacked sleeps and mezzes.... c'mon, lets be realistic here].
Praetoria is viciously difficult to solo. I find this to be dangerous in that I don't want the rest of CoX to follow suit with new content. I am in fact leaving the Distinguished Competition over this exact issue: unsoloable [and often badly bugged] content. I really like my characters over there but I find extreme hassle to be the opposite of fun. Nor do I like being locked in a room with an Elite Boss and my recharge/regen STOPPED, yes I said literally STOPPED, but that's another game thank you God. I can't say it enough: I don't want that developer mindset in CoX. Praetoria has it in plenty and let's us not slide down that slippery slope. |
If your going to DCUO, you'll be back :-)
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At level 19 I think I can carry ten? inspirations. Ten Lucks or BFs are not going to overcome multiple waves of the same Elite Boss. If I even touched her green bar she summoned yet another wave of clones. |
Originally Posted by Scythus
Did you try Lucks? Lucks help immensely.
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This is so far beyond the pale of what a level 19 can do that I find it almost funny.
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Sometimes you have to abort a mission and move on. I helped a guy once do an incarnate mish. In the final fight with the Rikti and the Honoree, we had over 300 Rikti spawn in the final chamber. It was ridiculous. We slugged it out over an afternoon but the original user said this was why he finally requested teammates :-) He tried it solo for the previous 30 days with no success. Every time we died and hospitaled or ran down the hallway to recharge, 20 were added. I had record holds that day 25-50 every grab.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
At level 19 I think I can carry ten? inspirations. Ten Lucks or BFs are not going to overcome multiple waves of the same Elite Boss. If I even touched her green bar she summoned yet another wave of clones.
This is so far beyond the pale of what a level 19 can do that I find it almost funny. |
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How many Lucks were you popping at a time? 4 gets you to the soft cap and no matter what the mob is, it starts missing a lot. It doesn't matter how many there are, they can't hit you.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
At level 19 I think I can carry ten? inspirations. Ten Lucks or BFs are not going to overcome multiple waves of the same Elite Boss. If I even touched her green bar she summoned yet another wave of clones.
This is so far beyond the pale of what a level 19 can do that I find it almost funny. |
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I completed the mission on my Elec/Sonic. I did get sent to the hospital once, but defeated her after the return trip. I can't remember all of the details of the fight, but I'm sure having access to both a confuse and a location-based sleep helped.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Try it on any flavor of level 19-ish Controller and let me know how you do.
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Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
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Yes I know that Lucks are very helpful, but in a long, sustained fight - which this was - I cannot store enough Lucks to get me through that fight. |
Originally Posted by Scythus
How many Lucks were you popping at a time? 4 gets you to the soft cap and no matter what the mob is, it starts missing a lot. It doesn't matter how many there are, they can't hit you.
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If you are level 50 that is one thing. But level 19 is too low for multiple waves of one of the most powerful EBs in the game. As I have said before, having to repeatedly leave a mission to fill back up on inspirations is the very definition of a poorly-planned encounter, at least to me it is. This type of thing is why I stay out of the Mission Architect, because people think its funny to create bosses with such powers and how about no....?
All I can do is Just Say No.
meanwhile Praetoria has seen the last of me, I think. Just like The Distinguished Competition has, sadly.
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In that case I got lucky, a tank I had been teaming with duoed it with me which made it doable. That's what I mean by kryptonite really, Praetoria has enemies for almost any power combo which are just a dead end, you'll get slaughtered by them. My scrapper loved ghouls and syndicate, but hated clockwork of all kinds. My elec/nrg domi had no issue with them but hated Destroyers and was the one who was stopped dead by Vanessa.|
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
Are you soloing content? I did prae content with teams and it was challenging in the underground but above I had no problems with it.
Also, is the AI different for Prae. I thought I read something about Prae having new dev engineering/features. |
Admittedly this is all before the diff settings were added, -1 makes a big difference when you're trying to solo something which you're weak against.
Praetoria is the most interesting starting points in the game to solo though, storywise. i just wish someone went through the enemy lists there are pared some powers back a wee bit.
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this game has a lot of "hiccups." I played lots of mishes that had bugs but I came back with a different toon and completed it. I have worked with the devs to understand this be we have been unable to successfully recreate some of the issues I have had.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
In that case I got lucky, a tank I had been teaming with duoed it with me which made it doable. That's what I mean by kryptonite really, Praetoria has enemies for almost any power combo which are just a dead end, you'll get slaughtered by them. My scrapper loved ghouls and syndicate, but hated clockwork of all kinds. My elec/nrg domi had no issue with them but hated Destroyers and was the one who was stopped dead by Vanessa.
Admittedly this is all before the diff settings were added, -1 makes a big difference when you're trying to solo something which you're weak against. Praetoria is the most interesting starting points in the game to solo though, storywise. i just wish someone went through the enemy lists there are pared some powers back a wee bit. |
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Not sure what your build was, but I can't see how 3 lucks plus a break free and containment as you are stacking holds and immobs on her couldn't win you that fight. |
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Yes I know that Lucks are very helpful, but in a long, sustained fight - which this was - I cannot store enough Lucks to get me through that fight.
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If you went 3 lucks and a break free for the first part...then as those wear off...3 more lucks and a break free, you should be at least getting her near 1/4 health while surviving.
You still have 2 more inspiration slots which you can use for greens or two more lucks.
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If you are level 50 that is one thing. But level 19 is too low for multiple waves of one of the most powerful EBs in the game. As I have said before, having to repeatedly leave a mission to fill back up on inspirations is the very definition of a poorly-planned encounter, at least to me it is. This type of thing is why I stay out of the Mission Architect, because people think its funny to create bosses with such powers and how about no....? All I can do is Just Say No. meanwhile Praetoria has seen the last of me, I think. Just like The Distinguished Competition has, sadly.
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I'm loathe to tell people to learn to play...but this just seems like you not thinking your way through the encounter...
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Surely not?
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Originally Posted by Slashman
this all seems just a tad overly dramatic.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
So I've solo'd my way through Preatoria at +1 difficulty.
Followed the Powers story arc, and bang I hit level 19 with no more contacts, and a level to go before I can leave.
That sucks.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Team now and get out of Praetoria.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
So I've solo'd my way through Preatoria at +1 difficulty.
Followed the Powers story arc, and bang I hit level 19 with no more contacts, and a level to go before I can leave. That sucks. |
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You can run the other paths, or do the repeatable missions.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
So I've solo'd my way through Preatoria at +1 difficulty.
Followed the Powers story arc, and bang I hit level 19 with no more contacts, and a level to go before I can leave. That sucks. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Personal view on game design is that the IC story of Powers/Responsibility/Crusader/Warden should be enough to get you from 2-20 without having to play other plot lines.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You can run the other paths, or do the repeatable missions.
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Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
"Can", but doesn't. Not well, anyway.