^ Then I guess you fail at observation, because when there's a Rikti raid during the GG meets, we DO respond to it ICly.
Every. Single. Time.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Sorry, but whenever I have seen it, it always seem to get treated OOC'ly... granted that was as an observer and not as a participant.|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
^ Then I guess you fail at observation, because when there's a Rikti raid during the GG meets, we DO respond to it ICly.
Every. Single. Time. |
*shrugs* Guess if you are not IN the group it does look OOC.
Which brings up another point that I will not go into again...
The thing about the bombs is, some land and explode straight away. Some don't. We can't stop the ones that explode straight away, so apparently they'd still do damage. Which means it's kind of odd to then go and stop the unexploded bombs when an exploded bomb previously hit there and exploded with all its might.
So while some heroes do go and work on taking out the other bombs, the others gather ready for the invasion, because the Rikti have the sound tactical thinking to beam into the largest group of heroes. (Yeah, beats me too.)
Some civilians that go to the statue go and shelter in Freedom Court, or heroes that aren't fully fighting fit. Those that stand around talking about the weather or fashion or what not, do so to pass the time. Pretty soon they are going to get swarmed by aliens, which has happened to a lot of them before, so they get their minds off things while it happens. Some characters will just remind everyone of standard tactics, sometimes explain things to people who haven't experienced a Rikti invasion before (But wish to fight them off) and then when they start beaming in, people go to business. Sometimes they'll quip during fights, sometimes they'll be silent.
At the end, they make sure everyone's alright, treat any injuries, pass around praise where needed, and then carry on, as that's all they can do.
Edited to Add: IC Reactions to the raids tend to go from 'Not this again', and 'Oh, I am not in the mood for this' to 'What do I do what do I do what do I do aaaaaah' and 'Hells yeah, time to get me my fight on!'
Of course, when it's LGTF Strike Target Week, player will to fight can wear a little thin.
We don't usually run off to defuse bombs because .... well we can't RP while doing that and it's a bit boring. Sometimes one or two will go off to do it and good luck to them!
Other than that Z covered it pretty well. You may have seen people at GG treat it as OOC. But not any time recently I'd bet.
Not long after Gunwitch arrived in Paragon, we had a Rikti Invasion week. She started out really enthusiastic as the raids gave her a chance to test out her weapon systems in proper battle conditions. Great! She altered the air flow around her pistols with forced-air cooling due to some overheating issues. She was happy.
By the ened of the week, the Rikti could just go get lost!
By the way, she only recently got over being blown up, so I'd rather no one did it again for a while. She is a pretty good option for a target since, given time, she could regenerate almost any non-brain damage. Taking her out is likely not permanent (I don't really want to lose a character I like), but will result in nasty repurcussions.
I was, quite frankly, alarmed at the result of getting Annette shot. I badly miscalculated the effect it would have on GG and had to bring her back in from the cold a significant amount faster than I originally planned. Quite likely she would still be missing...
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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I could have told you that, dude! |
Originally Posted by Ravenswing
I was, quite frankly, alarmed at the result of getting Annette shot. I badly miscalculated the effect it would have on GG and had to bring her back in from the cold a significant amount faster than I originally planned. Quite likely she would still be missing...
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Annette's popular, as is Louise. More so with some than others.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Sometimes people avoid the gameplay side and just go RP in bases instead during a RR. Which might be the sensible IC acton, but probably isn't the heroic one.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
My memories of GG is the Raids are normally treated IC, with poor Fea running around after the raid doing first aid. It can be a bit more OOC if other players not RPing are around and want a team, but these tend to run off the moment the raid is over.
As a US player reading most of this thread, I have only this to say: ******* you people argue a lot.
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: STOP!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WAIT ONE SECOND!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WHAT IS A SEAGULL DOING ON MY THRONE!?!?
We're British! We love a good moan.
Point taken.
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: STOP!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WAIT ONE SECOND!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WHAT IS A SEAGULL DOING ON MY THRONE!?!?
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This didn't get properly answered in all the stuff about dirty bombs and landmarks generally.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
At 50 it does become quite the cluster **** for sure, prior to that it's okay. The level 20 stuff happens time line wise before the level 30 stuff and so on.
But at 50 we have people being controlled by the well, while at the same time being kidnapped, assaulted by Arachnos soldiers and iniating a team to take down a rival all supposedly taking time in the same time period. |
It is again, entirely missing the point of the Unionverse as a continuity for all. While you are level 20, scores of other characters are level 30. The timeline based on level does not work for a shared, consensual 'now' and so has to be discarded. If level 20 character and level 50 character can see person X then he can't also be abducted, imprisoned, etc. Nor can building Y, which they are currently at, have just been blown up, no matter what your in-game mission may say.
This is the point at which, if it is important for you character to have actually kidnapped person X, e.g. Blue Steel, then you'll have done so in an alternate universe, the old Onionverse, while in Unionverse, the hundreds of other players continue to see Blue Steel going about his business as usual.
To share a Universe, we have to share a consensus on what is now, and generally, if any character you couldn't contact can see that thing, then at no point can that thing be actually missing now.
Quick example: The Militia have recently been doing the newly revamped Maria Jenkins arc in-character. We got to that bit where one minute Statesman is on the mission with you and then, Oooops we lost him! Statesman is kidnapped. At the moment, the Militia's reality is that the world famous Statesman is missing, and they lost him.
But that would never be brought to the wider RP community or Unionverse as a current event. We fudge around it, and there are many ways to do so. We can have in our reality (not the wider Unionverse) that there is a stand-in doing all Statesman's public appearances to prevent panic. That sorts out our side of how others are currently still dealing with a man who is missing. We can also have our timelines crossed, so we consider this event to be out of the now, and actually somewhere in the past. "We once lost Statesman. Oh, he's back now, and thanks to a stand-in, noone who wasn't involved ever noticed it". The one thing we cannot reasonably do, ever, is try to force the plot that Statesman is missing on the entire community.
If we were so stupid to even attempt it, everyone else would obviously either decide we were crazy, or else that it was us that had been fooled by a stand-in. We'd likely be put on ignore at the same time.
http://www.savecoh.com/
Only trouble is, with that kinda plot there is that if anyone has any form of interaction with States at that point or refers to him at all, you're pretty much godmoding "Oh no actually you talked to a stand in".
Wouldn't a much more reasonable solution to acknolwedge that the plotline you're doing happened a while back? I mean everyone acknowledges that States was kidnapped by the Preatoreans in the past, thus nothing is changed, just for your personal private stories you were the ones who helped free him.
Which if it came up in RP would be best described as "Oh yea we did some work with States against the Preats" to avoid stepping on anyones toes.
And I would have continued this debate with CB earlier, however I was far too angry after last night on the channel, my net cut out and I had to sleep.
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Originally Posted by Omega_Chief
Only trouble is, with that kinda plot there is that if anyone has any form of interaction with States at that point or refers to him at all, you're pretty much godmoding "Oh no actually you talked to a stand in".
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Originally Posted by Ammon
We can have in our reality (not the wider Unionverse) that there is a stand-in doing all Statesman's public appearances to prevent panic.
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Originally Posted by Omega_Chief
Wouldn't a much more reasonable solution to acknolwedge that the plotline you're doing happened a while back?
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Originally Posted by Ammon
We can also have our timelines crossed, so we consider this event to be out of the now, and actually somewhere in the past. "We once lost Statesman. Oh, he's back now, and thanks to a stand-in, noone who wasn't involved ever noticed it".
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http://www.savecoh.com/
It's more deciding what things from the storylines have happened by now.
I'd argue that the Faultline story arcs have all happened now, since the characters all pop up later on having 'evolved' in the RWZ storylines. Jim's become a hero, Fusinoette has gotten more powerful, Penny has gotten a not so secret admirer.
I'd also argue that the RWZ events haven't happened yet because they show zero effect in game, we still have Rikti attacks quite regularly after all, despite breaking the back of the invasion through the RWZ and LGTF.
I'd argue that all the level 50 stuff is currently ongoing in universe at the moment.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Its no surprise that what we can mostly discover is that you'd argue a lot, CB |
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
It's more deciding what things from the storylines have happened by now.
I'd argue that ... I'd also argue that ... I'd argue that all the level 50 stuff is currently ongoing in universe at the moment. |
None of us have the right to unilaterally decide anything about a shared, consensual reality. We attempt to reach a collective consensus, which is a massive undertaking in itself and the reason that some of these hard rules seem to smack people in the faces at times.
I mean, which of us have the right to dictate that a newly arrived roleplayer tomorrow can't possibly have fought Frostfire in the Hollows because he's already reformed at the stage where players have reached level 50? That is one of the trickiest examples, of course, not least because it is such a hard to miss changing event that is at all stages of the change at once in game-mechanics.
Generally this comes down to the time-fudge method of letting it slide. Frostfire was arrested many times before reforming. New roleplayer is either part of that past event, or is fighting some copycat mutant using the name Frostfire to make himself a bigger deal to the Outcasts. It won't even matter unless that player tries to make it a current event others should react to. Generally, there's lots of ways to let it slide and get along with a shared reality with a shared 'now'.
Where there is a will to get along and find wriggle-room, there is always a way.
Generally the safest thing is to provide your own plots, villains, and locations, or use non-cannon ones that others have created and given permission to use (depending on whether it is important that others can react/share the reality).
Noone is going to object to you taking out the notorious Outcast leader ChillBurn, FrostBurn, or Freezerburn, and it won't upset their reality in which they just worked with Frostfire the reformed villain and signature character of Going Rogue.
Likewise, we accept that it is technically cannon that Agincourt gets blown up at a certain point, but that that certain point is always in the vague past and/or future, so that we are not stopping the RP of anyone who is just about to blow it up, or save it, or simply refer to being there, which it is.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
The whole point is to try to not leave just small amounts of wriggle-room (e.g. All your characters must have missed what's been on the news all day and all week), but lots and lots of it (my event barely made the papers, due to lack of eyewitnesses or pictures), and better yet, leave the wide vistas of the game as totally open as possible.
The ultimate aim is to create your own reality that is open to all, rather than that forcibly gropes everyone elses. One where those who want to can find a hook to join in, but that the hook isn't catching on everyone around you and tearing holes in their stories.
http://www.savecoh.com/
Constructive discussion in this thread has been peppered with personal insults, trolling remarks, and argumentation. From here on I'd appreciate if this type of behavior was curtailed, otherwise I may have to close the thread.
Ta!
Well to keep the musing on this going then, I guess one of the reasons we do this is actually to 'help' accessibility to new players. (And old players who took a break too)
You can join in on any of the Unionverse without really having to worry about making mistakes. Everything in the gameworld is pretty much how it looks. You might not know about the player created SG's, but generally people are all too keen to explain that bit.
Yeah we let an awful lot of stuff slide, fighting Frostfire is something of an in-joke between the Heroes at this point as it seems practically everyone's done it at some point. Even got played for laughs with one character who was mega excited to have finally beaten the ultra notorious Frostfire, only to have their excited bubble deflate when they learnt why exactly he was so famous.
For unique Villains, it's fairly open. I know I've made some up on the spot for a boring day, just to give people something to talk about. Rushmore's got the best gag Villain's Gallery ever! And I quite liked the Baron when CB was playing him, his constant grand schemes (That always went horribly wrong) amused me a lot.
So a large section of wiggle room is needed. Yes it'd be nice if we could all run grand 'Global Crisis' events, but it doesn't really work out. And you spend a long time explaining what's happening to all the people who aren't in the know anyway, which gets old.
I guess what I'm really trying to say is that..
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Is a fantastic turn of phrase.
| The ultimate aim is to create your own reality that is open to all, rather than that forcibly gropes everyone elses. |
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Agreed 100% here|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
It's more deciding what things from the storylines have happened by now.
I'd argue that the Faultline story arcs have all happened now, since the characters all pop up later on having 'evolved' in the RWZ storylines. Jim's become a hero, Fusinoette has gotten more powerful, Penny has gotten a not so secret admirer. |
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| I'd also argue that the RWZ events haven't happened yet because they show zero effect in game, we still have Rikti attacks quite regularly after all, despite breaking the back of the invasion through the RWZ and LGTF. |
What I see happening is a sort of almost-comical-but-twice-as-deadly tug o' war going on for him, enforcing the status quo by no-one side getting the upper hand.
Which also doesn't stop him being fought in the LGTF. He's just back on the Rikti side, and hey! You get to hand him back to Vanguard.
And the Peace Treaty has also passed into canon, according to Tip missions. One Rogue one is taking up an offer from the Traditionalists to hunt down Kelly Uqua (Kelu'Qua(?)) in return for a reward. There are also a few other mentions of it in tips, namely of the Traditionalists working with Vanguard.
If you think about it, Hro'Dtohz is the kinda villain thats like a big, armoured and spiky cockroach; hard to stamp out, and able to survive on very little. While still being dangerous. As long as the Lost still exist and he can get his new recruits and conscripts, he still has a fighting force.
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| I'd argue that all the level 50 stuff is currently ongoing in universe at the moment. |
/Personal View
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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^ Managing all this would be SO much easier if the devs would actually move the totally static game world on a bit. So what if some missions get retired and newbies don't get to see that content? Paying customer's are the ones that matter, and a living story helps keep those.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And the answer is?
[Ouroborous]
Sadly 'New Shinies!' seem to take precedence over actually revamping and advancing anything -_-
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Putting the new shinies in is a perfect excuse for updating the story, but noooo... They add new stuff and then totally ignore that it completely contradicts the static game world.
Kings Row and Steel Canyon, for example, are now meant to be heavily damaged from Praetorian incursions. Yeah... Where?
This gives us the quandry of how we deal with that. Even if you RP strictly with the game story only, and never make any of your own stuff up, it's a massive contradiction.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
It seems that I20, despite all its signed NDA-ness, doesn't fix anything either 
I don't see them pulling any last minute fast balls, sadly.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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To reinforce on Ammons point, specifically in regards to the Agincort example, it'd be reasonable to say a base like that suffers from a fair few attacks from villians.
To say your villian lead/launched an attack on the base is brilliant! As is to say you damaged it, heck I'm pretty sure the base as is has one or two points of damage built into the ingame model.
Where we draw the line is saying we blew it up in it's entirity, that's the little silly bit we were trying to point out to avoid.
And of course, re: The Floating Timeline, it's tricky to do, because we just don't know where it is or what's happened, do we treat everything that's happened in previous issues as having happened?
While that might be understadnable with the Second Rikti War stuff (Which at the end we're told Hro'Dohtz still has enough forces to cause trouble from time to time) as we're not under constant Rikti assault anymore, but then you have the Preat stuff, which tells us the Phalanx has fallen and Steel and Kings are in ruin... yet the Phalanax are still sat there giving out thier TFs, Kings and Steel are spotless, so it's just all confusing about where we stand in it all.
Basically, there's two 'problem' plots on show here.
1. Plots that would incite a city wide response. Mass Child Murder. Nuclear Bomb Threats. Giant Alien Spaceships with Planet Busters. These are plots a character can't really justify ignoring because they're simply too huge in their impact on the city.
2. Outcomes of plots that leave things in a state that the game world flatly contradicts. Bulldozing Perez Park. Toppling Atlas Statue. Turning Kings Row into Glass. Murdering Statesman. That sort of thing.
I'd elaborate on this, but it seems I need to be sure on what this discussion is about as people keep moving the goalposts. Do you have any problem with the above two rules?
Don't worry though, happens every week... just ignore it in character >.<
Hell, I've even heard people complaining how incosiderate the game mechanics are for trying to spoil their RP when they could quite easily incorporate the damn raid in to it.
For example evil character X (in disguise) could say, "Ah ha! My homing beacon brought them right here... perhaps this time they will destroy the Freedom Corps building mwhahaha!" could just sit there and watch - or hero character P "Oh my! Quick everyone! The Rikti are trying to bomb Freedom Corps again, but it looks like they're aiming for the statue this time! If it falls it will damage the building! Lets go diffuse those bombs before some innocent civilian gets seriously hurt!" would rush off and help diffuse the bombs.
Instead of just sitting around or dropping out of character, hero X could run inside the Freedom Corps building.. "Quick everyone, we can't possibly diffuse all those bombs! Let's get inside Freedom Corps basement, we'll be safe there till the raid is over."
This is one of the reasons I stopped taking my characters to Galaxy City... I'd find myself having to drop out of character, fight the Rikti invasion, then go back in to character as if nothing had happened. It's one of the things that irked me. But then, maybe I'm unusual in the fact that I use things that happen in game IC.
Those Paragon road crews, and the ones in the Isles really do manage to repair those roads fast though
((Edit: it took me a while to write & post this))
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