Make more money for Paragon Studios
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2011-03-20 11:38 in Suggestions and Ideas
I wholeheartedly, entirely, completely, emphatically, infinitely, especially, majorly, totally, agree...
That is all.
MY FAREWELL GIFT
It is never truly gone, as long as there is someone left to remember.
Would be great to have but, as I recall, there were some indications that a stand alone costume creator may have been prohibited in the Marvel settlement.
Quote:
I doubt it, since Cryptic released one ages ago around the same time City of Hero was released in Korea. The available costume pieces were never updated as new ones were released and support was eventually dropped.
|
Originally Posted by Shadow State
Would be great to have but, as I recall, there were some indications that a stand alone costume creator may have been prohibited in the Marvel settlement.
|
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
I doubt it, since Cryptic released one ages ago around the same time City of Hero was released in Korea. The available costume pieces were never updated as new ones were released and support was eventually dropped.
|
As I recall BAB once said that he was unsure if he would get in trouble for even saying he might get in trouble for talking about a stand alone costume creator. I could be wrong, but that seems to at least hint at a confidentiality clauses on a settlement.
/Signed
As long as I can get in on my Android phone too.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
Quote:
Please go back and read my post. They released an actual standalone costume creator. Not hypothetically, it was an actual thing, and it happened after the lawsuit.|
Originally Posted by Shadow State
As I recall BAB once said that he was unsure if he would get in trouble for even saying he might get in trouble for talking about a stand alone costume creator. I could be wrong, but that seems to at least hint at a confidentiality clauses on a settlement.
|
I wish I could find some reference to this on the wiki but unsurprisingly I can't, probably due to how little interest there was in it.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Quote:
I know they create one, I can't find any dates for whether it was before or after the settlement. Doesn't change the fact that BaB has hinted that they can't make another.
|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
Please go back and read my post. They released an actual standalone costume creator. Not hypothetically, it was an actual thing, and it happened after the lawsuit.
I wish I could find some reference to this on the wiki but unsurprisingly I can't, probably due to how little interest there was in it. |
Quote:
They also made it for release in Korea only. This could mean several things, but one of them is that the settlement language only restricted them in America, where the lawsuit was held, and could not touch their activities in Korea.
|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
Please go back and read my post. They released an actual standalone costume creator. Not hypothetically, it was an actual thing, and it happened after the lawsuit.
I wish I could find some reference to this on the wiki but unsurprisingly I can't, probably due to how little interest there was in it. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Quote:
Not only was it only intended for the "City of Hero" Korean version of the game but even there it was only available to be downloaded for about a week or so before it was permanently pulled. If there was nothing "wrong" with it being available then why did they pull it back so relatively quickly and why have the Devs done everything in their power since then to more or less act as if it never happened?|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Quote:
|
The general consensus about what happened is that having a standalone costume creator available (albeit indirectly) for the NA/EU markets was in fact something that was prohibited in the Marvel settlement. When the Devs realized that people around the world had found the Korean version it was quickly taken off-line to minimize the damage.
Based on these circumstances I suspect we will never have an updated, official standalone creator in any other form.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
Only if it's not limited to the damn Apple and androids and crap. I want one on my desktop 
If its even possible, of course.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Technically there isn't anything preventing a fan creation of the same type of thing, where one could make a costume creator that pulled all the relevant costumes out of the CoH files, and then synced them into an iPod/iPhone/iPad app.
It would avoid any legal issues that Crytic had with Marvel, and also any current issues since the end user would be doing any extraction of data and placing into their own handheld.
Quote:
I actually forgot about this fact since I had managed to download it myself despite not living anywhere near Korea.
|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
They also made it for release in Korea only. This could mean several things, but one of them is that the settlement language only restricted them in America, where the lawsuit was held, and could not touch their activities in Korea.
|
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Quote:
Wow talk about skating on thin legal ice there. |
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
Technically there isn't anything preventing a fan creation of the same type of thing, where one could make a costume creator that pulled all the relevant costumes out of the CoH files, and then synced them into an iPod/iPhone/iPad app.
It would avoid any legal issues that Crytic had with Marvel, and also any current issues since the end user would be doing any extraction of data and placing into their own handheld. |
The Devs have tolerated reverse engineering of their code for things like modding out annoying sounds from the game and updating the in-game maps with badge information. But none of those "fan-based creations" ever existed outside the game and certainly never entered an arena that could potentially be sold for actual money.
The idea of a fan-engineered costume editor for CoH that was ported to the "app" world of handheld devices sounds all kinds of illegal to me for all sorts of reasons.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
Quote:
Why would you sell it? Theoretically you could sell access to paragon wiki or the like as well, but no one has proposed trying to profit off of it.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Wow talk about skating on thin legal ice there.
The Devs have tolerated reverse engineering of their code for things like modding out annoying sounds from the game and updating the in-game maps with badge information. But none of those "fan-based creations" ever existed outside the game and certainly never entered an arena that could potentially be sold for actual money. The idea of a fan-engineered costume editor for CoH that was ported to the "app" world of handheld devices sounds all kinds of illegal to me for all sorts of reasons. |
It would be on the same level as badge-hunter...much of the same artwork is taken from the game and it has the same legal and ToS issues as a costume interpreter.
Quote:
No, this would not be on the "same level" as the Badge-Hunter mods at all. The major problem (and difference) between what you're proposing and what the Badge-Hunter mods do is that the B-H mods exist as file-replacement mods IN-GAME using the preexisting mod system. It's completely inside the game and thus technically under the control and purview of the Devs.|
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
Why would you sell it? Theoretically you could sell access to paragon wiki or the like as well, but no one has proposed trying to profit off of it.
It would be on the same level as badge-hunter...much of the same artwork is taken from the game and it has the same legal and ToS issues as a costume interpreter. |
Trying to port CoH code/data to be used OUTSIDE of the game on handheld devices is quite a different ballgame. Our Devs would basically have no control over it and thus would easily be deemed a EULA violation. Also even if you personally had no intention to "sell" this new app the fact that it would exist in that handheld world where things could easily become sell-able via third parties would be all kinds of illegal.
Let's put it this way: Your chances of NOT getting banned if you were ever caught being the one behind such a scheme would be just about zero. *shrugs*
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
You misunderstand me. The badges artwork are already being used outside of the city of heroes game in many third party tools such as Mid's and on the websites of the other tools.
How is this different? Just because you said so?
The other people who have supported the free developments are well known to the devs, and they've continued to support them even though the devs have the full and final option of saying 'no'.
Your supposition of mods being in game are also covered in the ToS as well. They aren't technically allowed either, with the same penalties that you stipulate as well.
Shrug away. Your sell-able via third parties makes no sense at all. The app store model is even more locked down than a windows application like mid's. Straw man is straw man.
City Of Heroes Character Generator application (Korea) files are dated 09/07/2008 (9th July). CCC_Setup.exe.
There was also a Registry hack that changed the text from Korean to English.
As this data is FREELY available via Google searches I have no problem posting it here
Google is your friend.
But back to the topic at hand. If the legal people say that NCSoft are not allowed for whatever reason it doesnt matter WHAT the reason is - it is illegal.
Whether a non-NCSoft person does it (like Mids) is also covered by that well thats not for me to say. Maybe emailing NCSoft asking if it is legal for someone to develop a Costume designer?
Quote:
Any legal settlement would be between NCSoft/Cryptic and Marvel. A third party is not bound by the settlement, especially if it is for *personal* use.|
Originally Posted by cybermitheral
City Of Heroes Character Generator application (Korea) files are dated 09/07/2008 (9th July). CCC_Setup.exe.
There was also a Registry hack that changed the text from Korean to English. As this data is FREELY available via Google searches I have no problem posting it here Google is your friend. But back to the topic at hand. If the legal people say that NCSoft are not allowed for whatever reason it doesnt matter WHAT the reason is - it is illegal. Whether a non-NCSoft person does it (like Mids) is also covered by that well thats not for me to say. Maybe emailing NCSoft asking if it is legal for someone to develop a Costume designer? |
This is why the artwork could never be repackaged and *distributed* by a third party, but tools could be used for such purposes, as long as they did not violate other laws that were designed to enhance copyright, like the DMCA in the United States.
This is why the original pigg diving tools were totally legal, but individuals who used it may have violated the Terms of Service, but not necessarily copyright law.
IE, making a 'doll dressing' app would not be illegal. Extracting and putting the textures from this game into that app would not be illegal, although it might not be kosher under the ToS. Redistributing the final rolled up bundle would violate NCSoft/Paragon Studio's/Crytic's copyrights.
I remember being please as hell that they made that stand alone dealie, I loved dinking around with new outfits in my downtime at work without having to log in. And you could save them to load up in the game, a real time saver. Have to look around if I still have the .exe burned onto a disc somewhere around here.
Why would Marvel want to restrict their ability to release a standalone?
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
Quote:
Porting from Android to... pretty much anything except Apple's mobile devices is, while not trivial, comparatively easy. Android apps are Java programs using XML for layout.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Only if it's not limited to the damn Apple and androids and crap. I want one on my desktop
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lothic
The Devs have tolerated reverse engineering of their code for things like modding out annoying sounds from the game and updating the in-game maps with badge information.
|
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Dang... When I first started reading, I thought this would be about selling the Vanguard pack and others like it, containing otherwise-unlockable costume pieces for character creation. That'd make me part with my cash, STAT.
Oy vey. For lack of an iPhone, I can at least refrain from disagreeing.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
The number of MMO customers in the US is still small. The number of MMO customers that have Smartphones is even smaller. Then fragment that even more by pitting iPhone versus Android. You end up having a fairly small group, most of whom are already existing subscribers.
In the end, I think such an app would be more of a marketing tool than a revenue generation idea.
Now if this were Asia, I think we'd be telling a different story.
I posted this in another thread which will get deleted, so I'm adding it here.
Create a costume creator app for the iPhone, iPod and iPad and sell it for 99 cents. Put every available costume in there and clearly indicate which ones are "standard," which are Vet unlocks, which are effort unlocks and/or level-based unlocks, and which ones cost money in the form of Boosters. Then add a bunch of minimally-animated backgrounds your character can pose against and a screenshot export function. Maybe include a short film advertising the game and the things you can do and what you'll see. (Using the person's freshly-created character if that's possible.) At the very least you'll make some money, and you might get a few more subscribers from it.
And because I came up with the idea and gave it away for free, give it away to your active (and lovably loyal) subscribers.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction