Xoom was pushed out the door ahead of the iPad2 announcement before it was done. The memory card port isn't working yet and neither is a Flash plugin for the browser.
Now if they fix those two things and come out with a wi-fi only version for $100 less then it would be tempting. However I don't want a wireless data contract with tiny data caps for large amounts of money per month.
I get a laugh out of Samsung who publicly stated that they are now ashamed with their gen 2 Galaxy Tab, which isn't out yet but it's hardware specs are, when it's compared to the iPad2.
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I'm not really sure why you're quibbling with me about people being "sucked into" Apple's magical marketing hype that's supposedly tying to motivate them to do all their "serious" work on iPads. Between the two of us you're the one that actually OWNS one. I haven't even let Apple's hype trick me into BUYING one yet, for any reason. |
Originally Posted by Warp_Factor
I never gave a statistically absolute case of anything, I asked a question. I'll elaborate though; the thrust of most of the complaints on this thread about the iPad and iPad users seems to be that a significant number of people have been brainwashed by Apple's magical marketing department into switching from their laptop and/or smartphone when those devices would have served their needs better. I think that's baloney, and I think that any sensible person who actually thought that claim through would have to admit, if they were being honest, that it's a pretty outrageous and over the top claim. I think that people who make claims like that ought to provide some kind of evidence, even anecdotally, that their claim has some kind of substance to it. So far no one has; the only people who've said they know someone who ditched their laptop in favor of an iPad also say that those people only used their laptop for simple stuff like checking email, streaming Netflix, etc. That's stuff that the iPad clearly does better than a laptop or smartphone. Those people aren't downgrading and they aren't being brainwashed by Apple's marketing department, they're upgrading to a piece of hardware that suits their needs better than their previous devices.
Now, there have been posters pointing out that the iPad isn't a serious work computer, and that's absolutely true. I don't think any sensible person has claimed otherwise, because it's pretty flippin' obvious. I doubt a significant number of people bought an iPad expecting that from it. Speaking strictly for myself, my iPad suits my needs better than either a laptop or smartphone would (or a TV set, for that matter), and on top of that it'll be cheaper over time than a smartphone because I'm not paying for an expensive data plan (don't need or particularly want 3G). I'm pretty confident I'm not being somehow suckered by Apple's magical marketing powers, the thing just does what I want it to do better than any other device out there and cheaper than quite a few of them. I'm pretty sure most other iPad users feel the same way. If someone else prefers a laptop and/or smartphone, good on 'em. They know what they need better than I do, and vice versa. |
What's the big deal anyway? Who cares if none, some or everyone uses their iPad for serious work or not? I couldn't care less if you're "brainwashed" into only using your iPad for everything or not. Please take a deep breath and stop worrying about Apple so much. There are plenty of better things to be concerned with than this.
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Man, and I'm still trying to find a single good reason I should get a smartphone.
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Funnily enough, my company is looking into issuing iPads to factory floor engineers, because they need highly-portable computers they can use without being at a desk.
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Originally Posted by Warp_Factor
Now, there have been posters pointing out that the iPad isn't a serious work computer, and that's absolutely true.
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I'd be willing to agree with Warp_Factor at least as far as to say that as of March 2011 there are relatively few people who are doing "serious" work with iPads. To use myself as an example I'm a software engineer working for a government contractor and I can tell you in my particular line of work iPad type devices would have fairly restricted uses, even assuming we could get permission to use such devices in secured areas.|
Originally Posted by Kelenar
Funnily enough, my company is looking into issuing iPads to factory floor engineers, because they need highly-portable computers they can use without being at a desk.
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But I will not go so far as to think that iPad like devices will NEVER become far more useful in commercial/industrial applications than they are today. I myself said earlier in this thread that I still consider the iPad to be an expensive toy. But 5, 10 or 20 years from now? No, I figure by that time devices like the iPad will become far more commonplace and far more useful for "serious" work than they are today, regardless if they are Apple products or not.
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Agreed. Though my estimate is sooner-- no more than 5 years from now is my estimate. By that time, an ipad-like device will easily have the processing capabilities of today's typical laptop.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I'd be willing to agree with Warp_Factor at least as far as to say that as of March 2011 there are relatively few people who are doing "serious" work with iPads. To use myself as an example I'm a software engineer working for a government contractor and I can tell you in my particular line of work iPad type devices would have fairly restricted uses, even assuming we could get permission to use such devices in secured areas.
But I will not go so far as to think that iPad like devices will NEVER become far more useful in commercial/industrial applications than they are today. I myself said earlier in this thread that I still consider the iPad to be an expensive toy. But 5, 10 or 20 years from now? No, I figure by that time devices like the iPad will become far more commonplace and far more useful for "serious" work than they are today, regardless if they are Apple products or not. |
Give the padPC a dock and it'll be used like any office PC today with a keyboard and mouse, but it can be seamlessly undocked, tucked under an arm, and carried into the company meeting or down onto the floor of a production line...
Heck, depending on how you measure things, we're already there., the UMPC, while bulkier than an iPad, IS already there. They use those mobile devices in places like production inspection lines to replace the carloads of manuals and schematics that the inspectors used to carry along. For things as large as aircraft, they even use a custom positioning system which has the UMPC's reference manuals and reporting forms already set to the relevant areas. Add a padPC's camera, and he could probably attach photos or video clips right there to enhance documentation.
Come to think of it, ruggedized "tablet" computers that have even less processing power than the iPad are used by shipping companies for tracking even today.
Yes, the iPad itself is a toy, right now, but its hardly revolutionary and many of the things that it owes its heritage to ARE very much part of "serious" work. The PDA, the smartphone, the tablet PC, the ultramobile pc.... all these precursors to the 'pad have solid niche industrial uses. The pad was just one of the few aimed at the consumer
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Originally Posted by Ironik
I've been waiting for the non-Apple tabs to come out, but for one reason or another they've all fallen by the wayside. The Xoom seemed promising, but the reviews make it pretty clear that it's intended to be used primarily in landscape mode rather than portrait. I spend a lot of time in doctor's offices and I am frankly sick and tired (no pun intended) of trying to find something interesting in Woman's Day or Modern Parenting*, so I often take a book. Currently I'm carrying around the Manhattan phone book-sized novel The Passage. So for me, a tablet is just going to simplify that (fairly significant) aspect of my life. I can't imagine using it the way Innovator did, but if it happens, that'd just be a bonus.
So yeah, I'm finally going to give in and get an iPad2 this month. I hope it's worth hearing the chants of "One of us!" from all my Apple fanboi friends. * No offense and all, but I'm just not the target audience for those mags. Most of my docs are women except for my ophthalmologist, who's a serious car guy so he has all the auto mags. I enjoy waiting in his office. |
Don't write off the Xoom too quickly. The "portrait/landscape" debate is more about what video form factor will win the mobile war- the one that's used on HDTV's or a more specialized one that fits the portrait format.
For the reading you're talking about, it shouldn't play much of a role. It even may make the Xoom better for you. While the Xoom's widescreen format means its narrower when put in portrait mode, it is still as wide or wider than the mainstream eReaders (nook and kindle) which were designed with optimal text reading in consideration.
Studies have shown that a person's reading rate slows if a column of text is too wide. It seems to take the eye more time to track the longer line of text back and find the next line. That's one reason that, while hardcover books and trade paperbacks are larger than paperback books, they often have wider margins, resulting in columns of text that aren't THAT much larger than a paperback book. That kind of UI consideration affects the dedicated ebook reader design, but it wasn't considered for the general-purpose iPad. Instead you see optimally-formatted columns of text with a good deal of whitespace on either side (or ui elements there). The Xoom, with the widescreen shifted to portrait mode, would just have less wasted whitespace and a longer page.
It also sounds like you'll be toting this thing around a lot, and even if I were using a protective case, I'd feel a lot more comfortable with a Gorilla-Glass cover than the regular iPad's.
As for other apps.... this is another case of comparing apples to oranges. The iPad NEEDED many custom apps because up until that point, the iPhone line really had one display form factor. Apps could "scale up" but were designed with one factor in mind. The Android never had a true "standard" resolution, instead giving developers resources that made apps adjust rather well to a variety of display settings. Thus, even without using the new fragments in the UI, many Android apps looked good and worked great right out the door (and apps that DO use fragments are coming in at a faster rate than iPad ones did...)
--
Also, its kinda funny that Motorola may have hurt itself by rushing this out before the iPad2. Many reviewers compared it favorably to the iPad, but hedged that with note that they'd have to see what the iPad2 would have. Some even predicted it wouldn't stand up to the fantasy iPad that leakers were saying was coming.... you know, the dream iPad with a more advanced second camera (rather than one that's under 1 megapixel), more processor kick (the A5 still doesn't come close to a tegra2) more ram (notably left out of the presentation), stereo speakers (still mono), microUSB (nuh-uh), and better multitasking (nope).
Had the Xoom come out a bit later and been paired against the actual concrete competitor (maybe given enough time to flesh out Flash and get the SD card driver issue resolved... maybe with the cheaper wifi-only one to show better price comparison.... and maybe without all the heavily-publicized (and wrong) pricing/plan information from BestBuy) it may have appeared much better in comparison.
Not a Xoom fanboi here, just saying that the iPad2 isn't the surefire selection it may have seen a few months ago
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And then with the simplicity of a piece of paper, a pencil, and a pen.... the exact same task could have been done. And oh yeah, I already have all the tools because, low and behold, I spent my money on tools that aren't obsolete in 12 months. |
Originally Posted by Innovator
I like to tell this story to people who talk down smartphones and pads...
My friend asked me to help her fix her garage, as it had a broken bracket. So I came down and took a picture of the broken bracket with my iPhone. I then looked up on the browser what type of bracket I would need, used a ruler app to take measurements, and the note app to well take notes on the dimensions and type of bracket needed to fit the door. I took all that to the nearest Lowles which I found using the map app on the device and got the exact bracket needed for the job then looked up on the browser what other tools I will need to do the job, then purchased those. I went back, and using instructions on how to fix the bracket gotten through the device browser, I fixed the door. |
Claiming that a $500 device caused you to spend another $50+ in tools to do a 15 minute repair isnt exactly selling it well. (Ok, so I was a carpenter's apprentice at one point in my life, but the point is that smartphones/tablets/etc arent out there curing cancer, heck, they cant even tap into SETIOnline or help map genomes in thier spare time. Overpriced niche device is still overpriced.)
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All my tech friends were amazed to see I just used a cheap candy-bar Tracfone while they were all gaga over their tech toys. For all I do online, it served my needs and made financial sense (a full year of that cost me less than 2 months of what I have now-- maybe less than one). |
Originally Posted by NetMinder
And then with the simplicity of a piece of paper, a pencil, and a pen.... the exact same task could have been done. And oh yeah, I already have all the tools because, low and behold, I spent my money on tools that aren't obsolete in 12 months.
Claiming that a $500 device caused you to spend another $50+ in tools to do a 15 minute repair isnt exactly selling it well. (Ok, so I was a carpenter's apprentice at one point in my life, but the point is that smartphones/tablets/etc arent out there curing cancer, heck, they cant even tap into SETIOnline or help map genomes in thier spare time. Overpriced niche device is still overpriced.) |
It wasn't until my work wanted me to have one (and compensated me for it) that I got it. Now, when I'm on the road and an emergency case comes down, the network ops guys can call me. I can pull over, remote into the servers, and start troubleshooting all the servers and code on my 4-inch screen... I can do it virtually anywhere... anytime... I'm always available and our client downtime is a fraction of what it once was.* I'm always just a few minutes away.... its impossible to escape...
God, I miss that tracfone.
*Mostly, though, I use it to play Angry Birds.
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Actually, with all I did that day, I would have needed a camera, a ruler, a pad, pencil, printed instructions on garage repair, a map, and a phone book. Remember, I was also going to my friends house. I had brought tools as well, some screwdrivers, duct tape, and a socket wrench kit, but I wasn't actually what I would actually need till I got there to see what repair was needed...I'm not a carpenter...just a guy...with an iPhone.
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Originally Posted by NetMinder
And then with the simplicity of a piece of paper, a pencil, and a pen.... the exact same task could have been done. And oh yeah, I already have all the tools because, low and behold, I spent my money on tools that aren't obsolete in 12 months.
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I really want a combo platter: something with the apps of the iPad and the speed of the Xoom, the look-and-feel of the Apple with the ability to do basic, everyday things like run Flash. I'd get a Nook Color, except that it's too small. Like I said, I was looking forward to getting a Skiff, which would've been the ideal tablet for my needs.
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Not a Xoom fanboi here, just saying that the iPad2 isn't the surefire selection it may have seen a few months ago
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The main things I want on an iPad now is a retina display and a stylus (which works in the retina resolution instead of touch resolution). One thing about the iPad 2, is I don't really understand why an iPad user would need or want a back camera anyway. I'm sure all they really want is a built-in port or connector that allows them to download pictures from their digital cameras or iPhone into their iPad.
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One of the reasons the "retinal display" probably isn't there yet (aside from the whole concept being somewhat misleading) is that the device use differs. A "retina display," according to Jobs, is a screen with such a tight dpi that the human eye cannot make out individual pixels at a distance of 10-12 inches away.|
Originally Posted by Innovator
The main things I want on an iPad now is a retina display and a stylus (which works in the retina resolution instead of touch resolution). One thing about the iPad 2, is I don't really understand why an iPad user would need or want a back camera anyway. I'm sure all they really want is a built-in port or connector that allows them to download pictures from their digital cameras or iPhone into their iPad.
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For an iphone, with people holding it 12-18 inches away, that's nice. A larger pad is generally held farther away, meaning that you hit the point of "not being able to make out specific pixels" with a lower dpi at those operating distances. It becomes something of an "extra features for no discernible difference."
If you want a stylus-based one with precision, you probably hope to do some drawing on it. I suggest keeping an eye on Asus-- they're using WACOM pressure sensitivity in some of their tablet devices, and while things like the e-note only use 256 levels of sensitivity, it won't be long before someone brings the thousand-level-sensitivty-- or essentially merge a tablet PC with a Cintiq 12WX.
Actually, in all praticality, all a retina display does for the iPhone 4 and iPod touch Gen 4 is double the dpi of the screen to a resolution of 960x480 while retaining the screen size of a 3GS and have apps treat the screen as having the dimensions of a 3GS 480x320. It's a pretty ingenious way of displaying better quality images and at the same time allow apps to run cross platform between Apple's iDevices by pixel doubling, draw scaling, or allowing them to use different images depending on the display.
From rumors, the reason the iPad 2 doesn't have double dpi display (it retains an iPad's 1024x768 pixel resolution) is that it's manufacture would currently increase the cost of the device and the draw on the battery life would be increased to unexceptable levels. Maybe when the iPad 3 is out this may no longer be the case. Keep in mind, a retina display on an iPad would increase the resolution to 2048x1536, which is better than most HD TV's (1080p and 1080i TVs have a pixel resolution of 1920x1080).
As for the iPad getting a stylus, Apple had filed a patent for it, so maybe the next generation iPad will use that tech.
You can actually buy styluses for the IPad. I'm not certain how good they are but they are available from 3rd party vendors.
I suspect that not upgrading the display is a combination of factors. First of course is cost. Second is that it doesn't look significantly better on a tablet at typical viewing distances so that the cost doesn't really justify the incremental improvement in graphics. My educated guess is that those two factors go into why Apple didn't upgrade the display. I did see an analysis of it comparing the existing display's DPI to what it would be with a Retina display and their is improvement it wasn't really that significant.
Now the trick would be to actually look and see comparing the two. And again I would guess that they tested it and the Retina display didn't significantly better. At least not better enough to justify increasing the cost of the whole tablet.
Oh and I agree, I don't really see the value of either the front or back camera but then I'm a barbarian who is perfectly happy that there is no Flash on my IPad.
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I've tried a low-end third-party stylus for the iPad and can confirm it entirely misses the point.|
Originally Posted by TerraDraconis
You can actually buy styluses for the IPad. I'm not certain how good they are but they are available from 3rd party vendors.
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It's not that the iPad isn't configured for the kind of input with styluses for, say, a Wacom Tablet or a Lenovo ThinkPad X201, which have buttons that can function like a mouse's or perform other UI inputs. Rather, the iPad's full-blown haptic UI doesn't limit itself to a single point the way a stylus does.
The iPad, at its best, runs on hand gestures, which is something very different in a consumer computing device.
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I can kinda see the front camera, to use the iPad for Facetime, Skype, as a mirror, etc. The back camera is harder to justify. I mean, I'd rather use my iPhone or an actual digital camera to take pictures. I guess I can find app uses for it, like WordLens or as an OCR scanner, but the camera should be much upgraded for that kind of thing.
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Originally Posted by TerraDraconis
Oh and I agree, I don't really see the value of either the front or back camera but then I'm a barbarian who is perfectly happy that there is no Flash on my IPad.
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I bought one.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Well you can flip to the rear camera in Facetime.
Maybe Apple has something like Google Glasses coming out or someone can use it for some other augmented reality app.
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The Layar app shows some of this potential.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Well you can flip to the rear camera in Facetime.
Maybe Apple has something like Google Glasses coming out or someone can use it for some other augmented reality app. |
It essentially uses the camera and GPS to display things over top of an area--a kind of digital graffiti.
Some of the elements are useful a layer that shows links to wikipedia entries for geographic locations, or a layer that showed all the locations in your area getting stimulus funds. Some are just strange or gratuitous-- having a layer at your college campus that renders 3d models of your mascot around and above your sporting arenas, or your personal layer people can subscribe and see your digital graffiti anywhere you put it. In the future, you'll likely see the tech used for people to post restaurant reviews right at the door to the site, or a business spicing up their curb appeal with some custom layers...
Me? I want the processors to advance just a little bit more, so they can adequately determine the dimensions of the room appearing in the camera. Then, I want some devs to get ahold of the "Fatal Frame" license and make a game where your phone/pad buzzes you when "ghosts" appear, you look though the camera at your room and see spirits coming out of walls or through doorways... or crawling down the stairs 'Grudge' style... and, like fatal frame, you try to capture the spirits in a well-places slot. The first survival-horror augmented reality game!
You mean like Ghostwire?
I have a couple of styli for my iPad 1, I even made one from a drafting pencil and some IC packaging foam. They are conductive, that is they must conduct a small amount of electricity to work. I'm sure you already know that's why you can't wear gloves with an iPhone or iPad, unless they are made specifically for the device.
The other thing about the styli is that their tips are about the size of your finger. I think the iPad has detection logic in it to reject taps that do not cover a certain amount of surface area. Fine tipped styli don't work, unfortunately.
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Some folks have adopted small dry sausages as styli.
-np
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I've been waiting for the non-Apple tabs to come out, but for one reason or another they've all fallen by the wayside. The Xoom seemed promising, but the reviews make it pretty clear that it's intended to be used primarily in landscape mode rather than portrait. I spend a lot of time in doctor's offices and I am frankly sick and tired (no pun intended) of trying to find something interesting in Woman's Day or Modern Parenting*, so I often take a book. Currently I'm carrying around the Manhattan phone book-sized novel The Passage. So for me, a tablet is just going to simplify that (fairly significant) aspect of my life. I can't imagine using it the way Innovator did, but if it happens, that'd just be a bonus.
So yeah, I'm finally going to give in and get an iPad2 this month. I hope it's worth hearing the chants of "One of us!" from all my Apple fanboi friends.
* No offense and all, but I'm just not the target audience for those mags. Most of my docs are women except for my ophthalmologist, who's a serious car guy so he has all the auto mags. I enjoy waiting in his office.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction