Conflict in Seattle's RL Super Hero Community?
By
BackFire,
Posted on: 2011-02-25 24:06 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Now if the guy was a former special forces operative with 10 years of experience under his belt, it'd be a different story.....
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Originally Posted by BeornAgain
I wish him nothing but luck. And he may very well need blind, dumb luck.
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Yeah, but any special forces member wouldn't do something like that...
Without taking some guns along.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
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Keep Calm & Chive On!
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| I'm not saying you should let crime go. I'm saying that, if you want to go looking for crime to give yourself an excuse to be a hero, bust heads or whatever, maybe you should consider trying to join your local police force and get some real training and the ability to call in for backup. |
I have no problem with the notion of hey I can make a difference. I'm all for doing the less glorious stuff that makes a real difference in the long run. Running around attacking people isn't it. We have cops in real life, and they re not remotely as useless as the ones in fiction.Aiding them can do far more good than being a lone wolf.(such as calling them or taking pictures of criminals.forming a neighborhood watch...I know boring stuff that doesn't involve violence.) There's smart ways of fighting crime and operating perfectly with in the rules. This isn't it.
This a great way to worry your family. This a great way to suffer great bodily harm. This is a quick way to an early grave. I suppose the day we have super villains with powers knocking over banks and hurting people may be more extreme measures are in order.
In fact dressing up likely makes you worse at fighting crime. You have an outfit that probably hinders your movement. Criminals quickly figure out who you are rather than just some random person walking around unmasked. Total diminishing returns.
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I don't have a problem necessarily with Jones' approach (and for what it's worth, I agree with Troy's assessment that anyone willing to get out to help others is a superhero), but he does have a family to consider, and like it or not, he's the representative of this community.
He's also the singly most prepared to go out there and deal with a physical conflict I've seen (he's wearing trauma plates, some degree of armor and has his taser baton), but some thought should go into dealing with any organised crime, hero or not.
It's clear there's a difference in what some heroes think should be done and how they go about that; if Jones can do so (alone or with others) in a fashion that isn't going to get them killed or in serious jeapordy, then all power to him. But this is then an argument over organisation and seriously committing to this as a job and as a lifestyle.
This could be the point where the social activists and the crimefighters diverge and you see more concrete and genuine organisations spring up...which in my opinion the crimefighters should do particularly.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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The thing is, he doesn't "attack" people, he tries to get them to leave. He doesn't just attack someone unannounced. Additionally, he DOES call Police, he doesn't just leave people tied up then clear off.|
Originally Posted by Lastjustice
I have no problem with the notion of hey I can make a difference. I'm all for doing the less glorious stuff that makes a real difference in the long run. Running around attacking people isn't it. We have cops in real life, and they re not remotely as useless as the ones in fiction.Aiding them can do far more good than being a lone wolf.(such as calling them or taking pictures of criminals.forming a neighborhood watch...I know boring stuff that doesn't involve violence.) There's smart ways of fighting crime and operating perfectly with in the rules. This isn't it.
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It's all fine and well saying "call the police and take pictures" but if you're watching someone get beaten up, the 5-20 minutes it takes between the call and the police arriving could literally mean life or death.
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When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.
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Originally Posted by Zikar
The thing is, he doesn't "attack" people, he tries to get them to leave. He doesn't just attack someone unannounced. Additionally, he DOES call Police, he doesn't just leave people tied up then clear off.
It's all fine and well saying "call the police and take pictures" but if you're watching someone get beaten up, the 5-20 minutes it takes between the call and the police arriving could literally mean life or death. |
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Loud vigorous agreement from someone who actually lives in Jet City.|
Originally Posted by Smersh
I'm not saying you should let crime go. I'm saying that, if you want to go looking for crime to give yourself an excuse to be a hero, bust heads or whatever, maybe you should consider trying to join your local police force and get some real training and the ability to call in for backup.
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I have no problem with citizen's arrest. If you see something bad happening, yes, try to do what you can to stop it. But wearing a flashy outfit seems counterproductive to that.
Fiction is fun and fine but reality is a whole other order of beast.
"Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them."
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Very true. I've helplessly watched someone die while waiting for the police and help to come. He was shot in front of me, and yes, I immediately called 911. I don't want to ever go through that again, it took almost a year to get over it, and I'm still not quite there.|
Originally Posted by sleestack
When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.
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I'm a strong proponent for people to help when they can, however they can.
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And I only bring it up because I am reminded of a news story I saw as a kid.....a former marine went vigilante and went after several drug pushers and gangbangers. I have no idea what happened to him, but he was famous enough to have an episode of New York: Undercover based on him.
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Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
Yeah, but any special forces member wouldn't do something like that...
Without taking some guns along. |
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If I were invulnerable and had no fear of pain, injury, or death (though I've met people who didn't fear them despite no invulnerability) then I would leap over every criminal in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I'm just a normal guy in the real world.|
Originally Posted by Innovator
Very true. I've helplessly watched someone die while waiting for the police and help to come. He was shot in front of me, and yes, I immediately called 911. I don't want to ever go through that again, it took almost a year to get over it, and I'm still not quite there.
I'm a strong proponent for people to help when they can, however they can. |
I know people say that only police should get involved, but from what I saw that was taught in the military (I was SF in the USAF), most of what we are learn isn't all that effective, with firearms being exceptions. I questioned this, and was then told why everyone isn't taught special forces techniques, which are very effective. Not everyone is as adept at restraining themselves.
Still don't really understand what he meant, but it'd be a rather scary place for criminals if every cop was as well trained as a 10 year Delta operative, Navy SEAL, Army Ranger, et al (I am aware that some officers have these backgrounds)
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It is nice to be the only super-powered entity around, but if you gain powers, then someone else can use powers and they will most likely use them for personal gain. The whole idea of a person gaining powers (political or super) makes their deepest desires in the forefront. Some peoples deepest desire is heroism while others are villainy. There is also various deepest desires that have nothing to do with super battles. For example if I had super powers, then I would save the people I can, but I would be busy learning about the universe. What is the closest planet with extraterrestrial life? What does it feel like to be standing on a neutron star? In other words, if I had super powers, then I would be a Superscientist.|
Originally Posted by Nightphall
If I were invulnerable and had no fear of pain, injury, or death (though I've met people who didn't fear them despite no invulnerability) then I would leap over every criminal in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I'm just a normal guy in the real world.
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I know people say that only police should get involved, but from what I saw that was taught in the military (I was SF in the USAF), most of what we are learn isn't all that effective, with firearms being exceptions. I questioned this, and was then told why everyone isn't taught special forces techniques, which are very effective. Not everyone is as adept at restraining themselves. Still don't really understand what he meant, but it'd be a rather scary place for criminals if every cop was as well trained as a 10 year Delta operative, Navy SEAL, Army Ranger, et al (I am aware that some officers have these backgrounds) |
The first step in being sane is to admit that you are insane.
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Nietzsche said it like this: "Men think that they are good because they have no claws."|
Originally Posted by Nightphall
I know people say that only police should get involved, but from what I saw that was taught in the military (I was SF in the USAF), most of what we are learn isn't all that effective, with firearms being exceptions. I questioned this, and was then told why everyone isn't taught special forces techniques, which are very effective. Not everyone is as adept at restraining themselves.
Still don't really understand what he meant, but it'd be a rather scary place for criminals if every cop was as well trained as a 10 year Delta operative, Navy SEAL, Army Ranger, et al (I am aware that some officers have these backgrounds) |
In other words, they don't teach everybody to easily inflict injury and pain because people with those skills would often become bullies and criminals.
Power tends to corrupt and all that.
Foam rubber costumes can look great, but it melts and burns something horrible if it gets exposed to even a little flame. And while burning produces highly toxic fumes.
Just sayin.
-np
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I don't fear guns. When guns have been pointed at me, and even when there was shooting around me I didn't duck, hide, or flinch. When a guy with a gun came up to my friend, I walked over to stand at my friend's side. Still, I wish every day I could have done/could do more to help then just call 911. |
Originally Posted by Nightphall
If I were invulnerable and had no fear of pain, injury, or death (though I've met people who didn't fear them despite no invulnerability) then I would leap over every criminal in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I'm just a normal guy in the real world.
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At least, I wasn't among those who complained to no end to the police about being inconvienced as they were questioned about the incident I mentioned earlier, and some even took out their cameras and phones to take pictures of the body. Some people don't even seem human.
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Sadly, that sounds all too human. That's the problem. |
Originally Posted by Innovator
I don't fear guns. When guns have been pointed at me, and even when there was shooting around me I didn't duck, hide, or flinch. When a guy with a gun came up to my friend, I walked over to stand at my friend's side. Still, I wish every day I could have done/could do more to help then just call 911.
At least, I wasn't among those who complained to no end to the police about being inconvienced as they were questioned about the incident I mentioned earlier, and some even took out their cameras and phones to take pictures of the body. Some people don't even seem human. |
It's like this brilliant piece of satire from the Onion:
Nation Somehow Shocked By Human Nature Again
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Then we probably shouldn't mock people who want to be superhuman or at least strive to be better than.
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Originally Posted by sleestack
Sadly, that sounds all too human. That's the problem.
It's like this brilliant piece of satire from the Onion: Nation Somehow Shocked By Human Nature Again |
Y'know what's funny? Replace every occurrance of the name "Phoenix Jones" with "Batman" and you pretty much have an accurate assessment of a forum discussion in the DCU.