Conflict in Seattle's RL Super Hero Community?
By
BackFire,
Posted on: 2011-02-25 24:06 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Quote:
It'll be a shame when he gets shot and killed.
|
Originally Posted by sleestack
Article in the Wall Street Journal
So, one costumed do-gooder is taking a more "hands-on" approach and actually intervening in criminal activity. A different group disagrees with this, thinking it will eventually lead to bad things for all of them. Thoughts? |
Ten more Tip missions and he can go from Vigilante to Villain!
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
While he's certainly putting himself in danger, if more people took an interest in helping others maybe he wouldn't have too.
The fact is, people get hurt and killed, and everyone from all sides is just saying "Don't do anything, or you'll get hurt too." It's nice to see someone who'd rather get hurt themselves rather than let someone else get hurt while they do nothing.
Quote:
There's plenty of safe, legal ways to help and protect people without endangering yourself or others, most especially the person you're trying to help. And if anybody wants to wear a costume while doing so, fine by me.|
Originally Posted by Zikar
While he's certainly putting himself in danger, if more people took an interest in helping others maybe he wouldn't have too.
The fact is, people get hurt and killed, and everyone from all sides is just saying "Don't do anything, or you'll get hurt too." It's nice to see someone who'd rather get hurt themselves rather than let someone else get hurt while they do nothing. |
But this guy is attacking "career" criminals. Even if he doesn't get killed in the act, eventually one is going to come looking for revenge.
His own safety aside, how should he feel if a mugging victim or an innocent bystander gets shot while he's trying to show off?
I wish him nothing but luck. And he may very well need blind, dumb luck.
Quote:
This.
|
Originally Posted by Starjammer
There's plenty of safe, legal ways to help and protect people without endangering yourself or others, most especially the person you're trying to help. And if anybody wants to wear a costume while doing so, fine by me.
But this guy is attacking "career" criminals. Even if he doesn't get killed in the act, eventually one is going to come looking for revenge. His own safety aside, how should he feel if a mugging victim or an innocent bystander gets shot while he's trying to show off? |
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
You are not a superhero if you wear a goofy costume, fight crime, and have no powers or training above the average person. Fool, yes. Hero, maybe. But not a superhero. That doesn't mean there couldn't be real life superheroes that spent years training in Martial Arts or create highly advanced nonlethal weaponry, but these people are not superheroes. Besides there is no real point to attacking drug dealers. Their clients will find another way to get a fix and the drug cartels will just find another to take their place. Teaching and destroying their drug labs are far more effective ways. If no one buys drugs because they know better, then the drug cartels will go out of business or lose a lot of money.
The first step in being sane is to admit that you are insane.
I'm a lot happier with Zeta Man. He seems less delusional about himself or the overall superhero community.
Quote:
In that case I would still say it's the mugger's fault and they were likely to get violent upon meeting any resistance anyway.
|
Originally Posted by Starjammer
There's plenty of safe, legal ways to help and protect people without endangering yourself or others, most especially the person you're trying to help. And if anybody wants to wear a costume while doing so, fine by me.
But this guy is attacking "career" criminals. Even if he doesn't get killed in the act, eventually one is going to come looking for revenge. His own safety aside, how should he feel if a mugging victim or an innocent bystander gets shot while he's trying to show off? |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
I wouldn't disagree that it would ultimately be the mugger's fault. But there is such a thing as pouring gasoline on the fire, otherwise known as contributory negligence.
|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
In that case I would still say it's the mugger's fault and they were likely to get violent upon meeting any resistance anyway.
|
Quote:
Yes there is, but would we be unfairly attributing a larger portion of that blame to the citizen who intervenes because they're wearing a costume?|
Originally Posted by Starjammer
I wouldn't disagree that it would ultimately be the mugger's fault. But there is such a thing as pouring gasoline on the fire, otherwise known as contributory negligence.
|
For example, when we look at something like this, we'll probably say, "That's awesome!" but if were a person in costume would we just call them a jackass and practically say that the crime-stopper was just as much to blame as the criminals?
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
One's a person who just did the right thing at the right time.|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Yes there is, but would we be unfairly attributing a larger portion of that blame to the citizen who intervenes because they're wearing a costume?
For example, when we look at something like this, we'll probably say, "That's awesome!" but if were a person in costume would we just call them a jackass and practically say that the crime-stopper was just as much to blame as the criminals? |
One's a person who's looking for trouble and came prepared for it.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
Quote:
No, it's not unfair. If some guy sticks a gun in my face and demands that I hand over my wallet, then whatever comes of it is his fault. I can decide whether to defuse the situation by handing over the wallet or escalate it by fighting back; that choice is my responsibility. But if the difference between me actually getting shot or not is because some third guy decides to play hero, then he gets a whopping share of responsibility as well.|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Yes there is, but would we be unfairly attributing a larger portion of that blame to the citizen who intervenes because they're wearing a costume?
For example, when we look at something like this, we'll probably say, "That's awesome!" but if were a person in costume would we just call them a jackass and practically say that the crime-stopper was just as much to blame as the criminals? |
What the old lady in the video did was brave and commendable but it was also insane. And doing something like that in London is a far cry from doing it in the U.S., where the likelihood of the criminal being armed and violent is much higher.
And as has already been mentioned, there's a difference between being in the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time and going looking for trouble.
Quote:
So it's okay to do the right thing and intervene when you see a crime happening even though you don't have formal training but only, er, so long as you do it occasionally? Every other time you should just let it go?
|
Originally Posted by Smersh
One's a person who just did the right thing at the right time.
One's a person who's looking for trouble and came prepared for it. |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
But the thing is you never know if it's the right place and the right time. You can never be sure that the criminal doesn't have a gun or a psychotic history of cannibalism. We can't look at the person in the costume and write them off as a troublemaker just because they're consistent about their approach to crime-stopping while excusing similar acts of vigilantism when it's an old woman.
|
Originally Posted by Starjammer
No, it's not unfair. If some guy sticks a gun in my face and demands that I hand over my wallet, then whatever comes of it is his fault. I can decide whether to defuse the situation by handing over the wallet or escalate it by fighting back; that choice is my responsibility. But if the difference between me actually getting shot or not is because some third guy decides to play hero, then he gets a whopping share of responsibility as well.
What the old lady in the video did was brave and commendable but it was also insane. And doing something like that in London is a far cry from doing it in the U.S., where the likelihood of the criminal being armed and violent is much higher. And as has already been mentioned, there's a difference between being in the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time and going looking for trouble. |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
For any given person, unless they live a cursed life? Chances of running across something like that more than once are pretty slim. (Unless, of course, you work in a profession that brings you into contact with that sort of thing more often, like police work or what have you. I'll focus on people who work in offices.) If you go out actively looking for crime, you're much more likely to find it. And if you're wearing armor and carrying weapons, even non-lethal ones, I really have to look askance at that. Going looking for trouble is very different than trouble happening across your path.|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
So it's okay to do the right thing and intervene when you see a crime happening even though you don't have formal training but only, er, so long as you do it occasionally? Every other time you should just let it go?
|
And to claim that Phoenix Jones has 'formal training' is pretty darned disingenuous.
I'm not saying you should let crime go. I'm saying that, if you want to go looking for crime to give yourself an excuse to be a hero, bust heads or whatever, maybe you should consider trying to join your local police force and get some real training and the ability to call in for backup.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
Quote:
That's right, you never can be sure. Which is why the old lady in London was (I'll say it again) INSANE. And anybody who goes around looking to "jump in" is just asking for trouble.|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
But the thing is you never know if it's the right place and the right time. You can never be sure that the criminal doesn't have a gun or a psychotic history of cannibalism. We can't look at the person in the costume and write them off as a troublemaker just because they're consistent about their approach to crime-stopping while excusing similar acts of vigilantism when it's an old woman.
|
There is absolutely nothing wrong with "fighting crime" by calling 911, snapping a cell phone picture or video for evidence, then waving your arms and yelling, "Hey, you! You better take off! I called the cops!"
Whether you're wearing a costume or not is irrelevant. A lot of Guardian Angels with the same attitude were idiots too.
What a buch of whiners. GO JONES GO!
Quote:
Oh I wasn't saying that the costumed folk that the story in the OP is about have formal training. I was saying that the grandmas and other feel-good vigilantes that make it on the news have just as little training. |
Originally Posted by Smersh
For any given person, unless they live a cursed life? Chances of running across something like that more than once are pretty slim. (Unless, of course, you work in a profession that brings you into contact with that sort of thing more often, like police work or what have you. I'll focus on people who work in offices.) If you go out actively looking for crime, you're much more likely to find it. And if you're wearing armor and carrying weapons, even non-lethal ones, I really have to look askance at that. Going looking for trouble is very different than trouble happening across your path.
And to claim that Phoenix Jones has 'formal training' is pretty darned disingenuous. I'm not saying you should let crime go. I'm saying that, if you want to go looking for crime to give yourself an excuse to be a hero, bust heads or whatever, maybe you should consider trying to join your local police force and get some real training and the ability to call in for backup. |
I'm also saying it's more than a little inconsistent to laud those crime-stoppers who make it for good fluff pieces on the evening news while saying we should discourage people from actively getting involved in stopping crimes where they find them.
I do agree that it's best to get involved in a more formal manner such as looking into becoming a cop or volunteering for programs to better a community, since I'm not in a position where I would be willing to have my family wonder if I'm coming home that night over and over again. And I'm commenting more on our culture's views of what constitutes acceptable levels of vigilantism than what's being said on these boards, so I hope no one's taking offense.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
We've all seen this before. Every time 2 superteams meet they have to fight. Then later they resolve their differences and team up to fight a greater evil!
What people should really be worried about is the 'as yet to be seen' greater evil...Real Life Super Villains!!
Craft your inventions in AE!!
Play "Crafter's Cafe" - Arc #487283. A 1 mission, NON-COMBAT AE arc with workable invention tables!
Quote:
Plus Frakkin One
|
Originally Posted by Zikar
While he's certainly putting himself in danger, if more people took an interest in helping others maybe he wouldn't have too.
The fact is, people get hurt and killed, and everyone from all sides is just saying "Don't do anything, or you'll get hurt too." It's nice to see someone who'd rather get hurt themselves rather than let someone else get hurt while they do nothing. |
Freedom
Blueside: Knight'Hawk, lvl 50, Scrapper
Yellowside: Dark'Falcon (Loyalist), lvl 20, Blaster
That Stinging Sensation #482183
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BackFire
What people should really be worried about is the 'as yet to be seen' greater evil...Real Life Super Villains!! |
We already have those though...
They're callled politicians and lawyers...
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
Between my association with the RLSH community, my current Twilight Guardian series, and things I've said on these boards, my feelings are pretty well known.
I will say this, though: if Batman had never become a nth level black belt, or used super-sophisticated gadgetry, or fought the Joker, but rather had walked the streets at night dispensing food and toiletries, walked women to their cars safely, and visited children's hospitals, I personally would STILL think of him as a superhero.
Troy Hickman - So proud to have contributed to and played in this wonderful CoH universe
Quote:
He will be shot and killed if he is lucky. Worse maimed for life. Some thug is going to go out if his way to kill him to make a name for himself. He will be arrested for being a vigilante then go to jail. |
Originally Posted by sleestack
Article in the Wall Street Journal
So, one costumed do-gooder is taking a more "hands-on" approach and actually intervening in criminal activity. A different group disagrees with this, thinking it will eventually lead to bad things for all of them. Thoughts? |
The other group is right.
Article in the Wall Street Journal
So, one costumed do-gooder is taking a more "hands-on" approach and actually intervening in criminal activity. A different group disagrees with this, thinking it will eventually lead to bad things for all of them.
Thoughts?