Is it REALLY worth the roughly 325 million inf

If you have the inf, there's no such thing as too much recovery, so passing on the Numina's and the Miracle is looking a gift horse in the mouth. If you have a lot of defensive or resistive mitigation, there's also no such thing as having too much regen. About the only melee I wouldn't consider putting all three into are regen scrappers and stalkers: I might skip Regenerative Tissue. But even with stamina and quick recovery, I'm slotting Miracle and Numina's eventually. Maybe as a lower priority, but eventually.

Yep, ALL of my toons (that i play) have numi and miracle. But i do skip regen tissue every now and then, like on my MM.


But, 325mil isnt very much anyway >.<


Edit: PS+end is TOTALLY worth it as well. I slot that before miracle/numi.

You're going to average one recovery tick every 50 seconds if its slotted into a passive like Stamina. That is the equivalent to 0.2 eps (compared to 0.177 eps earned by slotting a 42.4% IO into stamina with no ED). Whether you prefer the continuous performance of enhancing Stamina directly or the stronger pulse from the proc is somewhat of a matter of personal preference, but its certainly "strong enough" to compete directly with IO slotting.

Keep in mind that recovery is not continuous either. You get one recovery tick every 4 seconds at base recovery, and recovery slotting will decrease the tick time. So lets look at the real picture between the shifter and slotting stamina.

A player with stamina gets +25% recovery, which reduces the tick time by 1.25, or from 4 seconds to 3.2 seconds per tick. In 50 seconds, you'd get about 16 recovery ticks - 15.625 to be exact.

Slot Stamina with +42.4% enhancement, and recovery increases to +35.6%, and tick time drops to 2.95 seconds. In 50 seconds you'd get just under 17 ticks of recovery - 16.95 to be exact. So that slotting will get you about one more recovery tick of 6.667% of your endurance.

The proc would instead average giving you one additional tick of 10% endurance. Of course, some windows would have less and some more, but that would be the average. So lets see: worst case scenario you lose about one recovery tick in that period of 6.7% end. Average case you lose one tick of 6.7% end but gain one tick of 10% end. Is that sort of irregularity really that bad? Ironically, if you care about time frames shorter than 50 seconds, which is the average time between shifter pulses, the difference between slotted and unslotted stamina is even less, because its going to amount to less than one actual tick of endurance recovery.

In exchange for its slightly irregular performance, you get two benefits:

1. Its stronger, by a slight amount (if its the third slot its a significant amount)

2. Its unaffected by recovery debuff. Even if your recovery is debuffed to zero, this proc can still tick away because its not technically recovery. it is, for lack of a better way of putting it, a heal for endurance, much like transfusion is also completely unaffected by recovery debuffs.


My four-slot Stamina slotting pattern for characters I'm concerned about recovery for is Shifter End, End/Acc, End/Rech, Proc. That gives me 91.78% end mod after ED, plus the 0.2 eps average from the proc, plus a 2.5% recovery set bonus. Total recovery: 2.71 eps from that slotting. By way of comparison, four common IOs would be 2.52 eps, and three IOs plus the proc would be 2.70 eps. And I get +health as another set bonus.

Just three slots of IOs would be 2.50 eps. Adding 0.21 eps is more than adding the very first +42.4% common IO, so unless you are running out of slots for critical powers I think the extra slot and slotting with four shifter IOs is worth it.

I have too much recovery. It turns blue in my combat monitor. :(

I was quite disappointed when I realized I couldn't get everything Mids suggested I could.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.

The recovery cap is 500%, or 8.33%/sec. That's not too much recovery, that is just enough recovery.

Although if you manage to slot three shifters, you could have 8.93%/sec recovery. Dark Melee could slot theft of essence and panacea and build for the recharge cap (don't know, not my problem) and end up with an additional 17.5% endurance every 20 seconds on average, 0.875%/sec. You could also slot procs in Dark Regen.

Then of course there is recharge capped Transference. Theoretical maximum 12.1%/sec, or the equivalent of 726% recovery. You might find it difficult to burn that much endurance.

There is never enuff dakka.

It's fun to be quoted by Arcanaville. Having said that - average return isn't an absolute measurement and that's the problem. Starting the zero timer at your last +endurance tick, you'll see at least another instant buff to endurance only about two thirds of the time (0,67232 probability for five ticks) by 50 seconds and every minute only three quarter of the time (0,737856 probability at six ticks) with no telling how far apart the ticks that do hit are, meaning you can get a buff even when you have an (almost) full endurance bar rendering it nearly useless.

That's the reason why I prefer to buff the more frequent endurance ticks before adding the Chance for +Endurance; the average return may be higher but it can end up being too far between to be helpful when running toggles and attacking. Also; having four slots in Stamina means two slots I could've used on damage procs that have 20% chance to affect multiple targets for each activation. More damage on average means less attacks used which is also endurance not spent. It boils down to personal preference, but as I said earlier - I save the proc for Stamina slot #3 or higher, or when applicable in Physical perfection where it's a whole lot better than buffing the power itself.

I specifically went out of my way to state the case for the proc completely separate from averages.

Lead a horse to water..

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.

What can I say, there was a lot of irish in the coffee and this got stuck in my head:

While you do point out that it really is very benificial in the third slot or later and illustrate this with examples of your own slotting, I just wanted to illuminate how irregular that 20% chance for... can be if someone was considering running with it alone or with it and an endurance modification IO in two slots while hoping for a smooth, reliable build performance in the recovery department.

This. Also note that with the same amount of work over the following 4 days you can sell the exact same thing you just slotted and have 325 million influence to spend on other IOs

10% of 120 is 12. You will get 12 endurance per proc. I think I got a little confused by some of what you said there, but yeah, it's 10%. My Tanker and Blaster that both (oddly enough) have 111.8 endurance each get 11.2 endurance each time the perf shifter procs. And all recovery will be based on your max end, so there will be no changes in effectiveness to either no matter what your max end is. Perf shifter proc (when averaged) will always outperform throwing End Mod IO/SOs in Stamina.

This is my philosophy as well.

In fact, these IOs are some of the only set IOs I give my characters as they level up. For me, full set bonus builds are something I worry about late in a character's career. Early on, however, I make a point of obtaining a Miracle and a Numina's unique specifically for the +recovery. While "expensive" (I am wealthy in just about every in-game resource so for me that's not an issue), they do a lot for boosting how fast you can chug along without having to stop and catch your breath. (The +regen pieces do that for your health bar, so they aren't to be overlooked. I just prioritize the recovery.) I could do the same thing with frankenslotting, and possibly better, but I can get just a few (admittedly expensive) IOs and leave the rest of my build SOs or common IOs until I am ready for a larger overhaul. I prefer that simplicity, so for me it's worth it.

Late game, I like to have characters who can do things that, well, they just otherwise wouldn't be able to do. Making your character very hard to run out of end enables a whole category of sustained burn activities, ranging from running more toggles to sustaining a high DPS attack chain for longer. No one needs to do stuff like that, but a lot of us get kicks out of it.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

That was what I was looking for - when Max End scales up, is that going to change. Since it's not, I'll keep slotting the way I have been.

I can see slotting one if you have the inf, but both means adding another slot to Health... if you have enough recovery without a unique that your blue bar never moves even running all toggles then that slot could probably be put to better use elsewhere. On most melees I'd agree that both recovery uniques and even the Regenerative Tissue are usually worth slotting, but on characters that run very few toggles and have good endurance slotting (my archery Blaster runs only Hover, for instance) you can recover more endurance than you are capable of spending without any uniques at all... if my archer gets sapped his endurance bar actually builds back up even while attacking with everything he has. Likewise, Regenerative Tissue is pretty pointless on squishies without high defense because even an extra 100-200% regen isn't going to make a noticeable difference in combat on a character that dies in seconds if he gets excess aggro, and Aid Self works far better to reduce downtime.

Performance shifters were modified a couple of issues back, with no patch note, to grant 10% endurance and not just 10 endurance.

Especially in a slot in Health where an L50 Common is 17% Regen.

If you don't mind not having a lvl 50/40/30 recipe, the recipes at other levels can be cheaper. I got a lvl 46 Numina's +R recipe for 26 mil.

Other folks have made suggestions:
- tips
- join TFs and convert R-merits to A-merits
- AE

If you don't want to pay 325 mil, feel free to earn it yourself.

FYI, my kin doesn't have any of these, but my brute does. Both have several "Master of" badges and are Alpha T4. I guess it depends on your toon.