What if Lois Lane was Black?


Antigonus

 

Posted

There've been times in the casting process for superhero films that folks have brought up the possibility of the hero being cast as a different nationality, but what about race? And what if were the love interest? Not just any love interest, but the love interest of the most iconic superhero in the world?

Besides the fact that I think Rachel McAdams should get cast as Lois Lane in Man of Steel, are we being too restrictive by only looking at white actresses? As I watch the fourth season of Friday Night Lights and get a regular dose of Jurnee Smollett, I can't help but think about the black actresses over the years that have had that certain fire that Lois Lane needs.

How would this affect the relationship between Lois and Clark/Superman, considering their courtship spanned decades? And should it have an effect at all?

Just something that popped into my head . . .


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Posted

You mean kind of like this?



Seriously though, I would prefer to see a Superman movie where Lois is a peripheral character, if she's even in the movie at all. I want to see a SUPERMAN movie, not a SUPERMAN & LOIS movie. For a change.


 

Posted

I was hoping we'd get a few more posts into this without someone posting that. >.>

And if there's any superhero movie where the love interest actually adds to it, I think it's Superman. I believe Superman's relationship with Lois says a lot about who he is and his connection to humanity. It's no mistake that pretty much all the stories where Lois gets killed or Superman is otherwise without her that he becomes a ****** or villain.


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Posted

Oh I'm not saying killer her off or anything, just make a movie that doesn't have the love interest as a central plotline.


 

Posted

I don't really have a problem with it from a "best actress for the role" point of view. Theoretically there's nothing about the role of Lois Lane that requires her to be portrayed as any specific race.

On the other hand it'd almost be like casting a Chinese man in the role of Abraham Lincoln. There'd be nothing strictly "wrong" with it but on the other hand everyone "knows/expects" that any actor playing Abraham Lincoln would probably be more convincing if he were a tall, lanky white man, at least from a historical accuracy point of view.

I'm not suggesting that Lois Lane, a fictional character, be strictly compared to a famous historical figure. But honestly in the case of something as iconic as the characters surrounding Superman I almost think you'd really have to come up with a serious artistic justification to cast Lois with anyone other than a white woman.

So could a black actress play the part and play it effectively? Sure.
I'm just not seeing the overwhelming necessity to make that change just for what might amount to change's sake.


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Posted

Actually, I was thinking earlier today...

I would like to see an Elseworlds Superman who was black.

Would he be the same paragon of truth, justice and the American way if he was denied the privilege of being white? Growing up black in the 1930s would certainly have given him a different outlook. (Also begs the question of whether you keep Ma and Pa Kent white or also change their ethnicity for the purposes of the story.)

Does he follow the teachings of Dr. King about non-violence? Does he find the Panthers more inspiring? Does he keep his beliefs in America despite the systematic persecution of people who look like him? Does he rise above or does he snap? Does he go the radio show route and go against the KKK?

As to the OP - it entirely depends upon the setting for the movie. In a 'historical' Superman where he lands in Kansas in the 1930s, Lois' being black would be a big deal. If it was set in a more modern era (Clark lands in Kansas in 1980 and is working in Metropolis in the present day) I like to think that it would be a non-issue. Superman is supposed to be a true believer in America, and I don't think Lois' appearance would affect his relationship in any way.


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Posted

It does open the question as to why its ok to alter some characters but not others. Nick Fury, Kingpin, and the Thor guy seems to be succesfully pulled of by black characters, but when it comes to certain iconics its all of a sudden "No!"



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smersh View Post
As to the OP - it entirely depends upon the setting for the movie. In a 'historical' Superman where he lands in Kansas in the 1930s, Lois' being black would be a big deal. If it was set in a more modern era (Clark lands in Kansas in 1980 and is working in Metropolis in the present day) I like to think that it would be a non-issue. Superman is supposed to be a true believer in America, and I don't think Lois' appearance would affect his relationship in any way.
Well I'm not saying that it would necessarily change Clark/Superman's perception of Lois, but what about the other supporting characters? What about his parents? What about Pete? What about Jimmy and Perry?

Not to mention that Superman is a multinational figure in the DCU, so how would it affect his reception at all, what with Lois being known as "Superman's girlfriend?"


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Posted

I'd prefer if the characters actually looked like they did in the comics. Be true to source material and all that.


 

Posted

What if Lana Lang was half-Asian?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
I don't really have a problem with it from a "best actress for the role" point of view.
It should be "best actress that fits the character", in this case caucasian.


Quote:
Theoretically there's nothing about the role of Lois Lane that requires her to be portrayed as any specific race.
So the entire history of the character as caucasian means nothing?


These kind of theoretical question seem to come up alot in these forums. As far as I'm concerned, if there is going to be a change of that nature to a long standing character like that, there had better be a damn good reason for it beyond the whims of the production staff. And no, being the "best actress" is not good enough.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang View Post
I was hoping we'd get a few more posts into this without someone posting that. >.>

And if there's any superhero movie where the love interest actually adds to it, I think it's Superman. I believe Superman's relationship with Lois says a lot about who he is and his connection to humanity. It's no mistake that pretty much all the stories where Lois gets killed or Superman is otherwise without her that he becomes a ****** or villain.
Personally I hate those stories. There's no reason Superman can't love Lois deeply, be deeply affected by her death, and yet still NOT go insane when she dies.

Imagine the reaction there'd be if Wonder Woman went insane and evil every time she lost Steve Trevor ... (is he back in continuity as being datable now?)


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Posted

Well they turned Nick Fury black so I don't see anything inherently wrong with changing up the race of a fictional character to explore different story possibilities.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antigonus View Post
It should be "best actress that fits the character", in this case caucasian.




So the entire history of the character as caucasian means nothing?


These kind of theoretical question seem to come up alot in these forums. As far as I'm concerned, if there is going to be a change of that nature to a long standing character like that, there had better be a damn good reason for it beyond the whims of the production staff. And no, being the "best actress" is not good enough.
Conversely, is there any overarching reason why Lois Lane has to be caucasian? Is it a key, defining part of her character? Is it integral to understanding who she is?

I think not.

I don't think anyone is saying that, in terms of movie casting, that it should be changed for the sake of change. What I would like to see is the casting director having truly open auditions, and casting the person who best encapsulates that director's vision of Lois Lane, regardless of the actress's race. If an actress can nail the personality and presence of Lois Lane, shouldn't we be more concerned with ability than looks?


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Posted

Here's a reason:

Once they play that card, there's no way they could win.

If you have a black Lois, people will complain about changing the source material too much, and about what it's being changed to. Whether that's morally and ethically correct is irrelevant because it's gonna happen. We're not far enough removed from the Civil Rights movement.

If you decide after one movie to switch her back, another group would be upset about it. I could see casting someone of ambiguous origin, but they won't venture far from European decent. I don't see the point of doing it outside of the shock value.

Unless the producers are out to generate that kind of publicity, they'll never do it.

tl;dr version: Once you go black, you can't go back.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormentoso View Post
It does open the question as to why its ok to alter some characters but not others. Nick Fury, Kingpin, and the Thor guy seems to be succesfully pulled of by black characters, but when it comes to certain iconics its all of a sudden "No!"
I think familiarity and context play into it. As for who I think you're referring to is the Executioner (the "Thor guy") well the movie hasn't come out yet so it's hard to say how it'll finally be accepted. Though honestly I feel it's a bit odd to have a black Asguardian contextually, he wasn't actually from Asguard but Jotunheim (realm of the giants) so there's room for interpertation there.

That Nick Fury is from the 'Ultimate' universe. The mainstream comic Nick is still white. I think bringing it in from an 'alternate universe' angle makes the transitional acceptance easier, and they modled him after a very popular actor who actually accepted the role for the movies which I'm sure didn't hurt.

In both cases, these characters are also somewhat side characters. Most casual viewers will have no idea who the Executioner is, and he probably doesn't have a really strong fanbase to have a problem with the change. There were probably a few casual viewers who knew who Nick Fury was, but those that were probably were also aware of the Ultimate Universe, so again, there was a transitional explaination.

I actually remember hearing folks complain about the Kingpin. I think Michael Clark Duncan did a good job with the character, but if you were a Daredevil fan, the change was obvious and without any transitional reasoning. I think the change was contextually incongruent.

I imagine Lois would be bucked hard by the populace at large if such a casting were to occur. Now if they introduced a black love interest to contend against Lois with... that would be a different story (and one I think would be awesome to see if it were written well). I would think the problem is she [Lois] is so well known that it would create enough cognitive dissonance to make the idea undesireable by most viewers. Not because she would be black, but because Lois Lane iconically isn't. I think this happened with the Kingpin on a lesser scale, which is one of the reasons I think it wasn't better accepted than it was (among other reasons).

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing more racial representation in comics in general. Not gratuitously, but well thought out and powerful (not power wise, but in writing and presense) characters. I personally think it's almost a disservice to change a known or popular character's race (though I really think Sam is awesome as Nick, 'nuff said!). It almost implies to me that whomever's making the change thinks a character of a 'different' race isn't strong enough to stand up on their own, so it's easier to just make a semi-popular or well known character change and hope it sticks. I hope that sentence makes sense to folks other than myself...


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I couldn't agree more.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antigonus View Post
It should be "best actress that fits the character", in this case caucasian.

So the entire history of the character as caucasian means nothing?

These kind of theoretical question seem to come up alot in these forums. As far as I'm concerned, if there is going to be a change of that nature to a long standing character like that, there had better be a damn good reason for it beyond the whims of the production staff. And no, being the "best actress" is not good enough.
Did you even read the rest of my post or did you just decide to react to the first couple of sentences I wrote?

I'll requote myself here just to be sure you don't miss it again:

Quote:
in the case of something as iconic as the characters surrounding Superman I almost think you'd really have to come up with a serious artistic justification to cast Lois with anyone other than a white woman.
Ironically you ended up REPEATING almost THE EXACT SAME THING I SAID. *sigh*


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormentoso View Post
It does open the question as to why its ok to alter some characters but not others. Nick Fury, Kingpin, and the Thor guy seems to be succesfully pulled of by black characters, but when it comes to certain iconics its all of a sudden "No!"
Frankly I will always question whenever an established character is played by a person who doesn't closely match the original characterization. For example I think Samuel Jackson is a great actor and I usually love him in anything I see him in. But was it right for him to be cast as Nick Fury? Was he the "best" actor for the role? I think things like that will always be open to a reasonable amount of debate. *shrugs*


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smersh View Post
Conversely, is there any overarching reason why Lois Lane has to be caucasian? Is it a key, defining part of her character? Is it integral to understanding who she is?

I think not.

I don't think anyone is saying that, in terms of movie casting, that it should be changed for the sake of change. What I would like to see is the casting director having truly open auditions, and casting the person who best encapsulates that director's vision of Lois Lane, regardless of the actress's race. If an actress can nail the personality and presence of Lois Lane, shouldn't we be more concerned with ability than looks?
Okay then you should have no problem then if they decide to cast the part of Lois Lane as a talking dog or cat. Cuz if the actress is good enough to nail the personality and presence of Lois Lane it will carry over to voice acting.

If race shouldn't be a deciding factor neither should species.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormentoso View Post
It does open the question as to why its ok to alter some characters but not others. Nick Fury, Kingpin, and the Thor guy seems to be succesfully pulled of by black characters, but when it comes to certain iconics its all of a sudden "No!"
As much as I like MCD, I didn't like his Kingpin - had they made MCD look like a white guy with an excellent prosthetics/makeup job it might have been perfect. And I much prefer original Fury, but I grudgingly accept the Ultimates universe version. Haven't seen the Thor movie yet, but if it's The Executioner, I believe I've seen him portrayed with a duskier skin tone before in comics or animation.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Okay then you should have no problem then if they decide to cast the part of Lois Lane as a talking dog or cat. Cuz if the actress is good enough to nail the personality and presence of Lois Lane it will carry over to voice acting.

If race shouldn't be a deciding factor neither should species.
That's ridiculous and you know it is.

Are you done?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Okay then you should have no problem then if they decide to cast the part of Lois Lane as a talking dog or cat. Cuz if the actress is good enough to nail the personality and presence of Lois Lane it will carry over to voice acting.

If race shouldn't be a deciding factor neither should species.
Well if a talking cat or dog can CONVINCE me through their acting ability that they are Lois Lane then theoretically there's nothing "wrong" with it. But would that be the "best" choice for a serious dramatic role? Probably not...


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smersh View Post
That's ridiculous and you know it is.

Are you done?
No it isn't. It's just as valid an argument as someone wanting to change a characters race because of their personal prejudices.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
Well if a talking cat or dog can CONVINCE me through their acting ability that they are Lois Lane then theoretically there's nothing "wrong" with it. But would that be the "best" choice for a serious dramatic role? Probably not...
Seriously when has that ever stopped Hollywood before?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
No it isn't. It's just as valid an argument as someone wanting to change a characters race because of their personal prejudices.
It is absolutely not.

Animals are not people. Talking animals do not exist. You're positing a hypothetical with a negligible chance of occurring within our lifetimes as an argument.

Actors of every race and background do exist, and even work for a living in Hollywood in the real world.

Also, acting is not purely voice - there is a physical presence that has to be considered unless you go to voice acting, which is outside the discussion here.

Try again.


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