Its true Mercs are the worst of the MM sets. But its still an MM. For about 2 years my Merc/Traps was my primary farmer on 0/X8 papers in Gradvill. He is slotted with IO's but not for defense or any thing like that. I was able to farm COT, COS, Council, and Rikti with no problems. However groups like Malta and Arachanos (at 50) gave me problems but that's mostly due to the mez. I'm afrade I don't rember mutch about his leveling experience he was one of my first toon's I ever made. I can tell you that much like bots the set really blooms after you get the Commando/L32 upgrade. Feel free to take Serum the first time tho, just so that you can realize just how bad that power is, and join us in trying to get it changed.
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
Will you enjoy having an army of people follow you around and shoot at things for you?
If yes, then no, you won't regret it.
Bronze is right. Although it may be the worst of the available sets, at the end of the day, you're still a mastermind. Teams are little more than extra pets that don't follow orders, but let you start task forces.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Define regret - I never regret fun. My Mercs/Storm is at lvl 50 and was fun to level, aside from some misery in my mid-20s.
I am not sure about pairing with /pain, however, as I think that the mercs would benefit from a secondary with more debuff due to their lethal damage. I am guessing that my mercs have also benefited from being able to dump all 4 pet aura def/res IOs in tornado.
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I'm confused...|
Originally Posted by Xiroth
I am guessing that my mercs have also benefited from being able to dump all 4 pet aura def/res IOs in tornado.
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If you put all four pet aura IOs in tornado, how did you fit enough recharge and knockback enhancement to make it useful?
You found a way to ten slot a power, didn't you?
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Mercs being a bad set is really just a meme propagated on these forums by people who are miffed over being unable to slot all 4 pet IOs and can't stand Sm/L heavy sets. The set is very good, especially with /Pain. Could it use a slight buff somewhere? Sure, especially with the long recharge controls on Spec Ops. But is it a bad set? Definitely not.
Most of the set's damage comes from the tier 3 Commando, who has massive AoE potential. One of the downsides is that he draws a lot of agro and runs out of endurance quickly. You will be very happy once you get Pain Bringer (+regen +recovery +damage) and keep it on him.
One of the advantages of Mercs is the prevalence of -defense. This allows your pets to socket Achilles Heel % chance for -resistance, but also makes them exceedingly accurate as all of the machine guns whittle away defense.
I will gaurantee this much: if you have a fun character theme in mind, then Mercs will be more than adequate in performance to keep your interest. Concept is paramount.
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Anguishing Cry compares very favorably to Freezing Rain in my experience. Freezing Rain has higher -resist values, but it also has a bug where any enemy that is in the debuff patch when the rain stops falling has all debuffs removed. That means that Freezing Rain is often only applying its debuff for 15 seconds versus a full 30 seconds for Anguishing Cry. They actually have the same unsocketed uptime because of this bug (25%).|
Originally Posted by Xiroth
I am not sure about pairing with /pain, however, as I think that the mercs would benefit from a secondary with more debuff due to their lethal damage.
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Pain also has World Of Pain granting all pets +resist, +acc, and +damage, and can keep Pain Bringer permanently on the Commando.
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I disagree. Mercs are demonstrably worse off than the other henchmen sets. Mercs lack the survivability of other sets (defense shields, -tohit debuffs, controls and heals; stacked leaderships; resist shields, contros and heals), they don't get a compensatory amount of damage (in fact, it's easily arguable that they do far less than others), and they get Serum.|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Mercs being a bad set is really just a meme propagated on these forums by people who are miffed over being unable to slot all 4 pet IOs and can't stand Sm/L heavy sets.
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None of this is saying that mercs are bad, mind you. They certainly are the bottom of the barrel, but let's face it, they're still henchmen and played right are capable of amazing things.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Easy...I didn't. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I'm confused...
If you put all four pet aura IOs in tornado, how did you fit enough recharge and knockback enhancement to make it useful? You found a way to ten slot a power, didn't you? |
Personally, I find tornado to be a marginally useful power, especially on teams. I'd rather be able to slot the entire blood mandate set in all 3 pets. I am not saying that as a definitive statement, but as my opinion of the power and how it works with my play style. As always, YMMV.
Absolutely not. My current 'default' toon (cant say Main, as I'm an unrepentant altaholic!) is Mercs/Dark, and she's a complete blast to play. CoT's a pain to fight and avoid Malta entirely, but everyone else is grist for the XP mill.
As has been stated and repeated in this thread, at the end of the day you're still a Mastermind, and still one of the most potent AT's the the game. It's all about the fun and the concept; if the latter works then the former will follow.
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Fixed.|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Mercs being a bad set is really just a meme propagated on these forums by people who are miffed over <taking 20% more damage than other sets with nothing to balance it> and can't stand <doing less damage to virtually everything in the game>.
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I got my merc/pain to 50 and it works, but comparing it to my bot/FF or Demon/poison makes the mercs look pathetic. I never found anything mercs could do better than the others. It can't steamroll like demons or stand up to AVs like bots.
Bots Traps to 50
Thugs FF to 37
Demons Thermal to 36
Merc Dark to 32 (My first MM)
Zombies Poison to 26
Thugs TA to 20
The only one I wouldn't play again is the mercs. If you have a concept you really like, run them. As people have said, you're still a mastermind and you will chew things up.
The key thing to remember here is that people say Mercs is terrible compared to the other MM primaries. It's a powerful set and a powerful character, it's just that the other MM primaries outshine it and can usually outperform it. That doesn't change the fact that in the larger scope of the game as a whole it is a very solid set and will let you do most things that you would reasonably want to do.
You're not going to be soloing AVs or steamrolling +4X8, but honestly those tend to be very specialized and expensive builds anyways so it makes for a bad standard of measure. If you have a concept you like and a character idea you dig, mercs will probably work out fine for you.
I really enjoy my Mercs/Traps MM (lvl 34). He's not as devastating in missions as my Thugs/Dark, but he's got a great concept, background, and look, and he can hold his own in a fight as long as I pay attention and don't go on auto-pilot with him. He's not a min-maxer, but he's fun to play.
Give it a shot, I say. 
Please try my arcs:
Arc# 63910 "Why Do Bad Girls Like Bad Boys?" (length=Long, levels 40+)
Arc# 401500 "How to Be a Successful Professional Criminal" (length=Very Long, levels 1-10)
My first villain (created in CoV Beta) is my Mercs/Poison MM. I'd rank MMs at the low end of my preferences for the various ATs, but when I do want to play one I have no issue with Mercs. It might be because I don't absolutely need to be the most uber thing ever to have fun... and my MM is plenty good. 
I even recently made a Mercs/FF MM in Praetoria, because I had a nice concept for a heroic MM.
Don't worry about what people say. Try different powersets out for yourself and see what you like. Almost nothing in this game is truly bad.
Proud member of Everyday Heroes (Infinity Heroes), Dream Stalkers (Infinity Villains), Devil Never Cry (Freedom Heroes), Enclave of EVIL (Pinnacle Villains), Phobia (Infinity Villains), Les Enfant Terribles (Freedom Villains), Gravy Train (Virtue Heroes), and more!
Full, detailed character list
I have a Merc/TA and Merc/Traps should be very good. If you have fun.. thats all that matters really..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
My Mercs/Traps was my first villain toon and my first 50.
Its biggest weakness is support tier compared to other sets. The insanely long recharge for the spec ops control powers is inexcusable and makes its utility basically negligable compared to the protector bots' shields and heals. Once in a blue moon, your spec ops will hold or flashbang a dangerous enemy that would otherwise kill one of your pets or even a teammate; but this is so rare it is barely even worth mentioning.
Still... you can be a badass with mercs. The commando is second only to the assault bot in pure pwnage, and since bots is the undisputed king of MM primaries anyway, that's saying something. And there's something strangely satisfying in seeing your own private army go all Predator-style on some dumb mob all at once.
Mercs have their weaknesses..but I find using procs really helps them out. I've played Mercs/TA back a while ago. Suggestions that worked for me:
-The Leadership Pool is good for Mercs: Maneuvers and Assault esp!
- Slot the -res procs as soon as you can get your hands on them.
- As soon as can afford/get the +Def and +Res procs and slot them.
_ There used be a an old trick using summon order...and I forgot how it worked. I think it involved summoning the Special Ops last to make sure they only got the Tier 2 upgrade and not the Tier one.... (any one else remember this??)
Since you're going with Pain..your Merc experience will probably be pretty good! Especially counting in those resist procs with your Pain Debuffs.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
I created two Merc Masterminds during the double XP weekend in Praetoria. One's at 25(3 soldiers and 2 special ops). I wish the damage was higher but in reading the forums here, that will come later.
The masterminds are fun. During my run to 25, while everyone else was working hard to get xp. I was drinking Enriche while my minions were bringing home the bacon.
I did do one group event by myself with the mercs against the PPD successfully. I like the Mercs but would like to see some improvements in the management areas. I had to keep Heel them alot to keep them from running away.
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That is a problem with every MM primary, and the main reason that I have been moving toward primarily playing other ATs. I really like MMs but the terrible controls is just painful. |
Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
I like the Mercs but would like to see some improvements in the management areas. I had to keep Heel them alot to keep them from running away.
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I had a prime example last night on my demons/thermal. Had a bad crowded corner and got 3 groups of longbow with 4 wardens, one immediate runner had a demon chasing it and I got a 4th group with another warden. I head for the hills and call my pets after me. Once I'm quite a ways back in the map I stop and keep spamming the follow command. Now, at this point my living pets are no longer taking damage at all but are a bit scattered. Some get to me, when the rest arrive the first ones run off down the hall to attack the longbow even though they're set to defensive and no one is taking damage. I call all the pets with follow again, they come back and the ones standing by me take off down the hall. This pattern repeats a good 4 times over 30 seconds or so after everyone stopped taking damage. We aren't talking 30 feet down the hall here, I mean across the room, up the stairs at the corner, down the hall around the corner and then down the hall there before they would obey the "follow" command I gave as soon as they started moving. Pretty ridiculous.
The Goto command is also almost useless since apparently it "goto" actually means "Tag that spot like it was second base and you got a home run". The pets hit the spot and just keep on truckin to wherever they were going. Most aggravating. Numpad keybinds are great, and I'm so used to them it's second nature... but that does no good if the pets don't actually pay much attention to the commands.
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That happens sometimes: your demons were probably still being affected by some sort of debuff, so the AI thought it was still being attacked, and tried to retaliate. I'm not sure if it's WAI, but it's kind of like how when you're fighting bosses that spawn minions (like FrostFire), you run away, the timer runs out for the spawned minions and die, but the boss registers that as you killing them and aggros you again.|
Originally Posted by Humility
I had a prime example last night on my demons/thermal. Had a bad crowded corner and got 3 groups of longbow with 4 wardens, one immediate runner had a demon chasing it and I got a 4th group with another warden. I head for the hills and call my pets after me. Once I'm quite a ways back in the map I stop and keep spamming the follow command. Now, at this point my living pets are no longer taking damage at all but are a bit scattered. Some get to me, when the rest arrive the first ones run off down the hall to attack the longbow even though they're set to defensive and no one is taking damage. I call all the pets with follow again, they come back and the ones standing by me take off down the hall. This pattern repeats a good 4 times over 30 seconds or so after everyone stopped taking damage. We aren't talking 30 feet down the hall here, I mean across the room, up the stairs at the corner, down the hall around the corner and then down the hall there before they would obey the "follow" command I gave as soon as they started moving. Pretty ridiculous.
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Anyway, the best way to stop them from running back after the mobs all over the place is to use Follow/Passive (or, the shortcut command Heel, but I always use Advanced and Individual controls). After a few seconds of them cooling their jets, you can put them back on Defensive.
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No and I will venture far enough to say to don't bother rolling any MM unless you just want to stop at 50. Consider the following:|
Originally Posted by Toony
Well I'm considering once again trying an MM. I've never made it past 28 ... My question is should I bother?
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ITF - MMs are very rarely invited. If they are, it's because the leader can't find anyone else. The last MM that I teamed with died so much that I recommended that he stay by the door and tp anyone that dies so that he can rez them.
Also, for the last mission, the healing nictus can use the pets to provide healing to Rommy. Pets do not provide sufficient DPS to overcome the healing. The MM must also make sure that the pets are on Rommy instead of uselessly hitting the various Nictus spawns.
LRSF - maybe a poison MM, but leader is more likely to pick a damage or debuff toon.
Apex, Tin Mage - pets die so fast... any Bubblers and Traps might be useful... if they're not dead yet.
For MS Raids, if you're a MM/FF, teams will want you. For the 5th Column SF, any MM type may be useful just to get the power to prevent Reichs from phasing. However, it is possible to have enough debuff and damage to overcome Reich's regen. Still, the MM is invited to the team just to get the temp power. Any help that the MM gives is icing on the cake.
Other than that, other ATs are preferred over MMs for lvl 50 content.
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I didn't quite understand this. Are you saying there are more advanced controls for managing MM Pets? I just use the ones in the tray>
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Originally Posted by Zeh_Masteh
I always use Advanced and Individual controls).
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ITF: The above only applys to speed runs. When I do a ITF I just look for shard runs All the prolblems listed above go away.|
Originally Posted by crayhal
No and I will venture far enough to say to don't bother rolling any MM unless you just want to stop at 50. Consider the following:
ITF - MMs are very rarely invited. If they are, it's because the leader can't find anyone else. The last MM that I teamed with died so much that I recommended that he stay by the door and tp anyone that dies so that he can rez them. Also, for the last mission, the healing nictus can use the pets to provide healing to Rommy. Pets do not provide sufficient DPS to overcome the healing. The MM must also make sure that the pets are on Rommy instead of uselessly hitting the various Nictus spawns. LRSF - maybe a poison MM, but leader is more likely to pick a damage or debuff toon. Apex, Tin Mage - pets die so fast... any Bubblers and Traps might be useful... if they're not dead yet. For MS Raids, if you're a MM/FF, teams will want you. For the 5th Column SF, any MM type may be useful just to get the power to prevent Reichs from phasing. However, it is possible to have enough debuff and damage to overcome Reich's regen. Still, the MM is invited to the team just to get the temp power. Any help that the MM gives is icing on the cake. Other than that, other ATs are preferred over MMs for lvl 50 content. |
LRSF did one last night no problems at all. You do have to know the maps and what your doing tho. Keep your pets on passive when the times right and communicate with your team leader so your aware of how they plan on running it.
Apex/Tin: Sadly my own experience so far substantiates your own.
MS raid: A GOOD raid with AOE heals and you should do fine. A BAD raid and all you do is run back and forth from the hospital.
Sliver mantis: To be honest I've never done it on my MM.
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
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Originally Posted by Residentx_EU
I didn't quite understand this. Are you saying there are more advanced controls for managing MM Pets? I just use the ones in the tray>
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Have you read MZ MM Guide yet?
Copy paste of the inportant bit all credit to Master Zaprobo.
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Originally Posted by Master Zaprobo
Play: Pet Controls
When you first summon a Mastermind Henchman, you will be presented with the "Pet Controls" window. These default to a "Simple" mode where you will be able to command your henchmen using three preset "macros". These are Attack, Follow and Heel. Versions of these that will command all your henchman should already be present in your powers quickbar. Henchmen have different stances: * Aggressive: Attack anything hostile that comes within detection range, buff anything friendly in detection range (note that a henchmans detection range is often smaller than its attack range). * Defensive: Attack anything that attacks me or my master, buff anything friendly in detection range. * Passive: Don't attack or buff anything. They can also be given different commands: * Attack my Target: Attacks the thing you currently have targeted. * Goto: Goto a spot designated by the player. * Follow Me: Follow the player around. * Stay: Stand still in this area, do not follow. (Stay is basically a "Goto the spot you are currently on") * Dismiss: Destroys the henchman. These can be used in combination. So "Aggressive/Follow Me" means "Follow me around, attacking anything that we get close enough to". Or "Passive/Attack My Target" means "Go attack this specific guy, and when you are done, don't attack anyone else." The preset "Attack" actually commands your henchman to aggressive stance and to attack your target. "Follow" will be familiar to City of Heroes Pet Controllers (as this is their pets default mode) as it sets your henchman to aggressive stance and to follow you. "Heel" sets the henchman to passive mode and to follow you. You can set the pet controls to two other modes - to command individual henchman, and to switch to Advanced Mode. In individual henchman mode, you will be able to command any of your henchmen individually with either the Basic or Advanced controls. You can, of course, drag and drop these indiviual commands to your powers quickbar (enabling you to command specific henchman, or groups of henchmen). In advanced controls mode, you will be able to pick any individual stance, and any individual command, rather than being "stuck" with the fixed preset macros. However, if you are wishing to have this level of control, I would severely recommend using macros or keybinds to do so. Play: Macro and Keybind Commands All henchman commands can also be issued from the chat box, as well as a two sets of extra ones, in the form of "slash" commands. This makes the creation of macros and binds extremely simple. The slash commands (and syntax) for the first set are as follows: /petcom {stance} {command} <<Requires a targetted henchman>> /petcom_name {henchname} {stance} {command} /petcom_pow {summon power} {stance} {command} /petcom_all {stance} {command} Each of the "petcom" commands can be followed by a stance (Defensive, Aggressive or Passive), a command (Goto, Follow, Stay, Attack or Dismiss) or one of each. |
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
I can't imagine trying to play a MM without using Sandolphan's Numpad Binds.
That's the system I started with and it works wonderfully.
These are good. I see the command line commands too. Thanks. Just reading, heel is really the wrong commmand to use.
Well I'm considering once again trying an MM. I've never made it past 28 on one and wanted to try out mercs (mainly for concept).
My question is should I bother? I've basically heard they're one of the worst sets out there but are they just the worst compared to other MM sets or are they so bad I won't even be able to do my own missions?
I'm not too concerned about being "the best" or knowing that if I ran some spread sheets I'd be aware I'm 0.05% more powerful than the guy next to me. I just want to be able to feel decent, solo my mishes, and have fun. Adequacy is all I really require.
I was considering pairing it with /pain, possibly. Traps could also be possible but I'm not a big fan of traps.