Are some crossover comics in their own continuity?
By
Crazy1van,
Posted on: 2011-01-22 15:36 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
It depends.
Like you pointed out in your examples of Batman/Grendel or Batman/Spider-Man, there are some crossovers where there seems to be the idea that these characters have always existed side by side in a shared universe, despite never previously encountering or mentioning each other in their respective individual books. The DC/Dark Horse crossovers with various heroes encountering Predators, Xenomorphs (from the Aliens movies), etc. also fall into this category.
Stories like JLA/Avengers (or Superman/Fantastic Four, to cite something from my own collection), on the other hand, establish that the heroes are indeed from different realities, though they might well be aware of each other.
I think it really just depends on the writer.
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IIRC, crossovers like JLA/Avengers and Green Lantern/Silver Surfer took place in the same continuity as Amalgam did (relative to the separate universes, not the merged one).
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
I am a fan of the Multiuniverse philosophy to comics. If somethings is extremely off with the comic, then we are actually reading about more than one universe in a comic. It is only implied that all results are in the same universe. From a RL standpoint, it makes the comics very confusing when they change the direction of the comic every few years because there is a new lead writer. Would be nice if comics operated like manga where there is only one lead writer and when the creator gets tired of it or certain circumstances get in their way, ends it.
As far as crossovers go, either all the characters exist in one reality and are only mentioned now, classic case of dimensional travel, or the crossover deals with the regular dimension and the comic forgets to mention that we are now in a parallel dimension where the crossover is now possible. After all, the comics are called Batman, Superman, X-men, the Flash, etc. and not Batman of Dimension 34X251, Superman of Dimension 5629E1, and X-men of Dimension 154K2 so having an issue dealing with Batman of Dimension 34X251 and the next issue deals with Batman of Dimension 25D35 is entirely possible. They just have to be parallel dimensions where the important matters aren't changed. Batman of Dimension 25D35 can't be a cyborg while Batman of Dimension 25D35 is human if they are in the same comic. Would certainly make things easier for comic book writers if they acknowledge that fact to the fans. Would be interesting to see a series based on Spiderman knocking out his first criminal before Uncle Ben is killed or Superman being raised by the Luthors while Lex is adopted by the Kents.
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I'd like DC and Marvel to merge into one company, because the multi-issue, multi-arc event they'd come up with to explain it would be one of the most stupid and awesome things in the history of comics 
@Golden Girl
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yeah but they already did that
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I'd like DC and Marvel to merge into one company, because the multi-issue, multi-arc event they'd come up with to explain it would be one of the most stupid and awesome things in the history of comics
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Never will happen like that so it be best to get that out of your mind. Sorry.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I mean a proper merger
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Supposedly this cross over, JLA/Avengers is canon to the DC continuity, just no one remembers it happening. Marvel on the other hand hasn't made a comment either way that I know of.
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With crossovers like JLA/Avengers, it is usually shown how the two teams meet, such as dimension hopping, portals, an accident, et al. |
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Well 2012 apocalypse would have to be true for that to happen. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, it could - if Disney and WB ever merge
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I would just count it as separate universes where the characters coexist and team up occasionally. Like all Batman has to do to team up with Daredevil is drive up to New York and Superman can fly up to Chicago to team up with Savage Dragon.
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Originally Posted by Nightphall
Yesterday during a lunch break, I read through some of the many comics I have stored on my portable HDD, more specifically, crossovers. With crossovers like JLA/Avengers, it is usually shown how the two teams meet, such as dimension hopping, portals, an accident, et al.
Browsing through other crossovers, however, seems to be different. Using Batman/Grendel for an example, Grendel is from Dark Horse, and usually operates in New York. In this crossover, it seems that it is just another part of the multiverse, as Batman states to have heard of Grendel. Spider-Man/Batman also has Batman state that he was aware of the entire Maximum Carnage event. There are many other examples, but I won't list them. Like I stated earlier, some crossovers do a good job of mentioning why they are occurring. Other vaguely, if at all, mention as to why, which causes me to believe that some are parts of the multiverse, where characters from different realities are able to co-exist. Is this the case, or am I looking too hard into it? |
@Joshua.
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Sadly even this is not true.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
IIRC, crossovers like JLA/Avengers and Green Lantern/Silver Surfer took place in the same continuity as Amalgam did (relative to the separate universes, not the merged one).
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For a long while, DC and marvel both acknowledged the Marvel/DC mini series and the Amalgam comics alternate dimension in their main continuities. Access showed up in an issue of Green Lantern, Thorion (Thor / Orion amalgam) showed up in an issue of Avengers Forever, the cosmic brothers who represented the two multiverses showed up in an issue of X-Men Adventures, etc. This was also the same continuity used for the Superman / Fantastic Four crossover, Superman / Silver Surfer, and Silver Surfer / Green Lantern.
But then came the JLA/Avengers, which had the two worlds meeting for the FIRST TIME. This is a big deal in the story, and the differences between the MU and DCU are important to understand why that mini-series was even written. My favorite bit was when Hawkeye saw the JLA for the first time and assumed they were a watered-down copy of the Squadron Supreme. To my knowledge this story has only been acknowledged by DC once (JLA: EARTH II), and never by Marvel (except maybe in one of their Handbooks).
With the case of DC, they had that whole FINAL CRISIS or INFINITE CRISIS or whichever showed that Superman (I) and Superboy were causing changes in reality all the time, so the fact that a crossover that WAS in continuity is no longer in continuity... is actually in keeping with continuity. I kinda hate the last 5 years of DC comics.
As for the shared-world crossovers, most of those are considered seperate stand alone stories that cannot be added to Marvel or DC continuity for simple copyright reasons. Only exceptions I know of are that the original Superman / Spider-man crossover was shown to be an alternate universe in the pages of Marvel's WHAT IF as well as Avengers Forever, and a comic featuring Azrael reflecting on his time as Batman makes allusions to his fights with Jigsaw and the Punisher. Officially DC calls all crossovers Elseworlds, so they can disavow any and all of them at their leisure.
Smaller companies tend to acknowledge crossovers, especially if the character is creator-owned. Hellboy and Grendel's crossovers with Batman are in-continuity for those franchises, though I'm sure they could be with the BPRD-Universe Batman and the Grendelverse Batman, respectively.
And don't get me started on the crossovers involving the Image Comics studios.
I used to run a website dedicated to Amalgam Comics and Crossover Comics, but it was on GeoCities and is no more. I could geek on for days about this.
Suddenly I'm regretting even entering this thread. I think I'm just gonna stick with "wobbly-wobbly timey-wimey" and call it a day. 
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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You and your "wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey" ways...|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
Suddenly I'm regretting even entering this thread. I think I'm just gonna stick with "wobbly-wobbly timey-wimey" and call it a day.
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Cause less of a headache than DC's continuity.
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A few years ago Image did a crossover with GI Joe and Transformers. the had 3 or 4 different volumes IIRC. The volumes were all in the same continuity but completely separate from either the Transformers or Gi Joe continuity's going at the time.
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I bet if that were to pass, it would be called MarvelDC and some suit would decided to trim titles based on what sold the best out the two companies then to further streamline things they would have a MUSE (MUltiverse Shaking Event) to combine the two universes (because somebody thought it was cool) and totally ruin things further from there.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, it could - if Disney and WB ever merge
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I had written a whole paragraph about the events of JLA/Avengers kind of continuing on Busick's run on JLA later, but then I remembered all the Crisis' since and figured that even though it was acknowledged in the normal DCU, it wouldn't be anymore.
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Originally Posted by Crazy1van
But then came the JLA/Avengers, which had the two worlds meeting for the FIRST TIME. This is a big deal in the story, and the differences between the MU and DCU are important to understand why that mini-series was even written. My favorite bit was when Hawkeye saw the JLA for the first time and assumed they were a watered-down copy of the Squadron Supreme. To my knowledge this story has only been acknowledged by DC once (JLA: EARTH II), and never by Marvel (except maybe in one of their Handbooks).
With the case of DC, they had that whole FINAL CRISIS or INFINITE CRISIS or whichever showed that Superman (I) and Superboy were causing changes in reality all the time, so the fact that a crossover that WAS in continuity is no longer in continuity... is actually in keeping with continuity. I kinda hate the last 5 years of DC comics. |
@Joshua.
Yeah, it's a true shame that JLA/Avengers hasn't been recognised in any continuity way, because of all of the great one-off encounters or moments that they have, not the least being the epic one-page standoff between Batman and Captain America, and the whole third issue being a glorious Silver Age reimagining of both teams' entire histories.
I agree with Crazy1van about the last five years of DC...and probably Marvel. Couldn't we have someone punch Superboy-Prime back and get rid of all the silliness and bad writing?
S.
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It is a shame that there hasn't been a crossover between Marvel & DC since then, as such an effort MIGHT acknowledge the JLA/Avengers mini. But what I'd really rather see is a crossover set IN that faux Silver Age, with Earth-1 and Earth-616 interacting fairly regularly.
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Originally Posted by SuperOz
Yeah, it's a true shame that JLA/Avengers hasn't been recognised in any continuity way, because of all of the great one-off encounters or moments that they have, not the least being the epic one-page standoff between Batman and Captain America, and the whole third issue being a glorious Silver Age reimagining of both teams' entire histories.
S. |
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Agreed. I'd like to read a Spider-Man/Flash (Wally West) crossover.|
Originally Posted by Crazy1van
It is a shame that there hasn't been a crossover between Marvel & DC since then, as such an effort MIGHT acknowledge the JLA/Avengers mini. But what I'd really rather see is a crossover set IN that faux Silver Age, with Earth-1 and Earth-616 interacting fairly regularly.
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I've heard stories that Quesada is the reason that there haven't been any recent crossovers, but I forget where I heard such things.
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Just wanted to point out one crossover that IS in continuity, and is an important part of continuity at that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WildC.A.T.s/Aliens
This story is the ONLY explanation for what happened to the Wildstorm Universe superteam StormWatch, which was wiped out in the crossover.
Yesterday during a lunch break, I read through some of the many comics I have stored on my portable HDD, more specifically, crossovers. With crossovers like JLA/Avengers, it is usually shown how the two teams meet, such as dimension hopping, portals, an accident, et al.
Browsing through other crossovers, however, seems to be different. Using Batman/Grendel for an example, Grendel is from Dark Horse, and usually operates in New York. In this crossover, it seems that it is just another part of the multiverse, as Batman states to have heard of Grendel. Spider-Man/Batman also has Batman state that he was aware of the entire Maximum Carnage event.
There are many other examples, but I won't list them. Like I stated earlier, some crossovers do a good job of mentioning why they are occurring. Other vaguely, if at all, mention as to why, which causes me to believe that some are parts of the multiverse, where characters from different realities are able to co-exist.
Is this the case, or am I looking too hard into it?
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