Speculation and Hopes for the Animal Booster
By
AmazingMOO,
Posted on: 2011-01-17 23:52 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Don't get me wrong, I've wanted REAL claws for a long time, I just recall prior discussions and my own experience with these models to know how tricky this would be. Its something they should really consider, but its much more effort than any custom powerset or effect we've seen in any other booster pack.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Okay, replace them.
Can't I be right about anything in this thread? Jeez, it's just wishful thinking guys. I suggested coats and jackets by placing them on a layer that surrounds the character model which everyone said was impossible and way too much work, but the smart people on the Paragon Studios design and programming staff figured out a way to do just that. I trust them to figure this out, as well. |
Y'know, I'm easy. I don't really expect them to go through every old glove in the game and animate the fingers; this is not a realistic expectation.
However, some NEW gloves with separate/animated fingers would be extremely nice. Because the oven-mitts in this game look extremely bad, and everyone knows it. I think even the developers know it.... so ok, start doing something about it, I say.
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It isn't as simple as that, either. When you change a glove, you're changing the to different "meshes" that still sit on top of that same skeleton "skeleton." That skeleton is what has the three simple mittenlike hinges in them. There isn't a way to change that skeleton "just for these hands." When you replace it, you'll be replacing it for all the character models, and *probably* need to alter all the hands in the game to that new mesh.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Y'know, I'm easy. I don't really expect them to go through every old glove in the game and animate the fingers; this is not a realistic expectation.
However, some NEW gloves with separate/animated fingers would be extremely nice. Because the oven-mitts in this game look extremely bad, and everyone knows it. I think even the developers know it.... so ok, start doing something about it, I say. |
Then, if you want the individual fingers to actually DO something, you'll have to change each and every animation in the game... you'd probably have to touch them all anyway, as the "joints" in an articulated hand would likely not match any mapped-over old joints for mitten hands.
Finally, adding so many different joints to track will affect performance. The way many games get around this is by creating different models (with fewer bones) to be used when the model is viewed at a distance. What's the point of tracking all those animated joints in the hand when you can't really see the hand at a certain distance, after all? So, you'd need to update the models and whatever level-of-detail manager is in your engine to address that, too.
As much as I'd want it (and animated faces... which would be bunches more of LOD management) these will require a sizable investment. Its one I'd want to do, but I'd see it as a substantial character model revamp, not something that can be tossed into a single issue, let alone a booster pack.
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The devs think it is |
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Y'know, I'm easy. I don't really expect them to go through every old glove in the game and animate the fingers; this is not a realistic expectation.
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War Witch said that adding fingers would mean having to redo all the animations where fingers would be expected to move, as players would be demanding it
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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So nice of WW to take notice of our concerns and then throw them on the ash heap. That surely shows compassion and empathy for her customers |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The devs think it is
War Witch said that adding fingers would mean having to redo all the animations where fingers would be expected to move, as players would be demanding it |
There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"
I dont care, I want my characters to have fingers and animated faces.
Even if is non-animated fingers or faces that just blinks.
Its 2011.
About animal booster pack, I hope is just more than legs and heads options. That would be so uncool.
The cheetah head looks awesome, but with hair would look even better!
If they not giving us actual new skin animal pattern options, then I hope they add new cool looking shirts and chest details, so that way our animal characters can wear some clothes on.
I hope this pack gets as close as can to this:
Thundercats
Gorilla heads. Rhino heads.
More animalized-looking human heads rather than (or in addition to) full anthropomorphized animal heads. Sort of like Noble Savages feline features as well as the new cheetah head.
Tufts of fur for shoulders/gloves/boots/chest.
New animal sound/roar emotes. Meow. Wroof. Hsssss. BARK-BARK-BARK. 
The Intrepid's / The Institution - Union Server Hero / Villain Supergroups
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Well, that's a nice explaination but does nothing to address why, right this minute, Arachnos have seperate fingers while we the players do not. | When you change a glove, you're changing the to different "meshes" that still sit on top of that same skeleton "skeleton." That skeleton is what has the three simple mittenlike hinges in them. There isn't a way to change that skeleton "just for these hands." When you replace it, you'll be replacing it for all the character models, and *probably* need to alter all the hands in the game to that new mesh. |
Again, I have no expectation that the art department is going to go through all the old gloves and change every last one of them. New gloves, however at the very least should be at least as good as the Arachnos hands - which are in the game now. I do not believe this is too much to ask.
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They're just the mitten hands with transparent lines set into them, you can see what it looks like on a player by selecting the Wolf & helm options on an Arachnos Soldier. The Female hand looks OK, the male and huge, not so much.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Well, that's a nice explaination but does nothing to address why, right this minute, Arachnos have seperate fingers while we the players do not.
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Exactly. That shows how we could do a cheap "reasonable facsimile" of separate fingers and toes, but still go with the same basic mitten articulation. The trick (and expense) is getting beyond that.|
Originally Posted by Shadow State
They're just the mitten hands with transparent lines set into them, you can see what it looks like on a player by selecting the Wolf & helm options on an Arachnos Soldier. The Female hand looks OK, the male and huge, not so much.
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Yes, it's 2011... but remember: the initial CoH art assets and the foundation that virtually everything's based on would be nearing around 9 years old. Back then, they were developing on a budget that was between 1/4 and 1/8'th its main competitors for its launch year... AND studies at that time were questioning the relevance of high-detail articulation, as most players played with cameras out beyond where such things were noticed. At the time, it probably seemed a reasonable budget compromise just so they could get the product out the door before the money ran out.
At this point in a game's lifespan (well, not many have lived to this point...), developers often look at the potential of a graphical upgrade. Indeed, we've seen them rolling out newer assets and engine improvements over the past year, so they may decide to tackle player character models at some point... ...just keep in mind that the stuff we love about the game (all these incredible costume options) are also what make it so darn costly to upgrade that part of the game's underlying tech. There's so much to revise, update, and double-check against, and NONE of us want to lose a single costume piece... or learn that the higher-res piece no longer fits with older costumes.
It can be done... it may very well be done... but it'll be a HUGE amount of resources invested to do.
Clean self emote lol
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
So wrong
Also someone mentioned a way to do a fairly cheap way to do finger claws, have the mitten "fingers" fold into the hand and then have the "clawed fingers" drawn in such a similar way as the current claws are. that i am /signing
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Grr. Bark. Bark. Grr.
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Originally Posted by MiniNukette
New animal sound/roar emotes. Meow. Wroof. Hsssss. BARK-BARK-BARK.
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If it helps I can send a sound file of my 5 lbs Shih tzu-Chihuahua mutt growling. it kinda sound like a small engine revving.
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Right, I threw that out there to see if anyone saw any holes in it.|
Originally Posted by Scootertwo
So wrong
Also someone mentioned a way to do a fairly cheap way to do finger claws, have the mitten "fingers" fold into the hand and then have the "clawed fingers" drawn in such a similar way as the current claws are. that i am /signing |
... offhand, I can see a few complications, but none terribly bad: Currently, the "claws" are in the "weapon" slot, as far as color customization goes... and none of those ever use the "skin" color currently. I don't *think* it'd be tough to make claws that inherited the "with skin" as one known color (and let you select the single other color). If you can, then you can have a relatively seamless appearance, if you can't... you'll be limited in the colors that make sense.
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I hope you're referring to the "lick paw, rub face" catgirly emote like we see in another unnamed competing superhero mmo and not a... well... not "cleaning self" like my friend's old boxer used to...
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Clean self emote lol
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ohgodtherats...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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All the better, and illustrating my earlier point nicely: the hands are already in the game.. Enable them with NEW GLOVES COMING OUT, everyone happy and problem solved.|
Originally Posted by Shadow State
They're just the mitten hands with transparent lines set into them, you can see what it looks like on a player by selecting the Wolf & helm options on an Arachnos Soldier. The Female hand looks OK, the male and huge, not so much.
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Speaking generally, I have never said that all old glove art should be redone. NEW. GLOVES. ONLY.
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| Someone else: It can be done... it may very well be done... but it'll be a HUGE amount of resources invested to do. |
Maybe there will be some new clawed beast hands in the animal booster?
From the pictures we've seen so far, they're doing heads, legs/feet and skin textures, so I think it's quite likely that there'll be some kind of new hand parts too, especially if they're going with the the idea of giving full outfits in each booster.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Yes, yes, yes, and yes on all of the above. Especially the emotes, option to make a muzzle / chin / nose longer, tweak facial features, etc. The old digitigrade legs have GOT to go.... or be appropriately revised. Sort of like how Disney did it on the Beast from Beauty and the Beast (only reasonable example that comes to mind).
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Originally Posted by Jagu
I've been waiting for this booster for a while! Let's see what I can think of to add...
A big one: Another "layer of skin" in costume editing so that fur patterns may be used with "skintight" clothing items. Currently, my spotted-fur character's wardrobe is greatly restricted for the lack of this. New "monstrous" heads for as many species as possible (including wolves, the current wolf heads are really horrible. I don't use them no matter how appropriate they would be for a character for this reason.) Also, more customization options for each head/face like fur marking patterns and shape differences Digitigrade (monstrous) legs that don't look awful with multiple paw/claw/hoof options that also don't look awful (again, the current ones are awkward and horrible.) On-all-fours travel powerset. Emotes for common animal behaviors. Maybe: ;scratch (sit down and scratch at ear with a rear foot) ;tailwag (happy on-all-fours emote) ;curlup (walk in a circle on all fours then lay down curled up in a ball) ;play (maybe both feline and canine versions; dog play stance, and playing with a cat toy or string ^^) and I liked the idea of a "fetch" emote. Non-monstrous faces; A face option that is a slightly extended muzzle (maybe several styles of this for feline, wolf, fox, avian/beak, lizard, etc) along with several new face "skins" to match, that can be used with hairstyles. I think these would be quite popular. |
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Sit Ubu, sit.|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
Grr. Bark. Bark. Grr.
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Good dog.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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I'd never leave the superbase.
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
I hope you're referring to the "lick paw, rub face" catgirly emote like we see in another unnamed competing superhero mmo and not a... well... not "cleaning self" like my friend's old boxer used to...
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
ok, chase, not knowing any of your other friends with boxers, should I be concerned that this is how you remember my dogs?
Can't I be right about anything in this thread? Jeez, it's just wishful thinking guys. I suggested coats and jackets by placing them on a layer that surrounds the character model which everyone said was impossible and way too much work, but the smart people on the Paragon Studios design and programming staff figured out a way to do just that. I trust them to figure this out, as well.