What is considered "ebil" anymore?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-01-14 17:27 in The Market and Inventions
Anything beyond 2B is hard to prove by screenshots or whatever. I guess I think that 10B now is probably what 2B was 18 mos ago. That doesn't mean that 2B is nothing. Honestly, the 1st billion is far and away the hardest to earn.
It's actually easy to prove if you bid your billions on the market on items that don't exist (lvl 53's, for instance)
/screenshotui 1 and take a pic of the place holders. It would easilly prove the 5B or 10B or 15B.
The quantity does not define the ebilness. It's HOW you 'earned' it. Unless it involves crushing the hopes of innocent players and dining on their sweet, sweet tears, it's not ebil.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
When I stopped playing 2 years ago, the bar was set at 1 billion. Just based on anecdotal evidence, I'd say that's on par with 5 billion now in terms of value and effort to acquire.
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However, a-merits make it easier than ever to generate seed money, and gleemail makes it easy to move resources across characters. Making that first billion is much, much easier than is used to be.
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Originally Posted by Enyalios
Honestly, the 1st billion is far and away the hardest to earn.
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Yep, it always sucks to have to explain to my kiddo that he can't make that [insert cool recipe] that actually dropped for him because some jerk wants to market pvp and the common salvage costs 90% of his character wealth. Yeah yeah, he can wait until tomorrow and I personally have no issues with it, but explaining to an 8 year old that he has to wait because someone is being greedy over some pixels gets old.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
The quantity does not define the ebilness. It's HOW you 'earned' it. Unless it involves crushing the hopes of innocent players and dining on their sweet, sweet tears, it's not ebil.
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Humility then spot him the money...
OP)
Destroying a billion. Its no longer about what you've got but now what you've destroyed. Because nothing says I'm fricking rich like destroying your moneys.
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Which wouldn't really change anything now would it? Paying 300K for a piece of common garbage salvage that was 500 yesterday just because someone has too much time on their hands and wants to market pvp only encourages the behavior. |
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
Humility then spot him the money...
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Bottom line, price fixing like that ends up with 3 outcomes. People with more inf than patience pay. Patient people get to wait to have their fun. Little kids get to have their play experience crapped on so some marketeer can go destroy a billion inf to feel special.
They have unlimited access to common IOs in the family base. They are frequently gifted with 5-6 piece sets for characters they really like. When they get a drop they want to do up, its something they can do for themselves to learn to be self sufficient and play the game on their own two feet. Dealing with self centered jerks is just part of life, and this is a good lesson I suppose though I would rather they weren't forced to do it in their leisure time gaming.
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#1 - You might want to introduce your kid to Architect Entertainment, where a single story arc (often a single mission) will give him enough tickets to get whatever common salvage he needs. |
Originally Posted by Humility
Which wouldn't really change anything now would it? Paying 300K for a piece of common garbage salvage that was 500 yesterday just because someone has too much time on their hands and wants to market pvp only encourages the behavior.
Bottom line, price fixing like that ends up with 3 outcomes. People with more inf than patience pay. Patient people get to wait to have their fun. Little kids get to have their play experience crapped on so some marketeer can go destroy a billion inf to feel special. They have unlimited access to common IOs in the family base. They are frequently gifted with 5-6 piece sets for characters they really like. When they get a drop they want to do up, its something they can do for themselves to learn to be self sufficient and play the game on their own two feet. Dealing with self centered jerks is just part of life, and this is a good lesson I suppose though I would rather they weren't forced to do it in their leisure time gaming. |
#2 - The market is a minigame. If you want to play, you have to play. It's not a store.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Or 16B.|
Originally Posted by LygerZero
It's actually easy to prove if you bid your billions on the market on items that don't exist (lvl 53's, for instance)
/screenshotui 1 and take a pic of the place holders. It would easilly prove the 5B or 10B or 15B. |
I suppose you could take a movie and scroll all the way right too, but it wasn't worth the effort, and 16B 2 years ago was quite enough. Nowadays... meh.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
/win 
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Originally Posted by Humility
Yep, it always sucks to have to explain to my kiddo that he can't make that [insert cool recipe] that actually dropped for him because some jerk wants to market pvp and the common salvage costs 90% of his character wealth. Yeah yeah, he can wait until tomorrow and I personally have no issues with it, but explaining to an 8 year old that he has to wait because someone is being greedy over some pixels gets old.
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| Dealing with self centered jerks is just part of life, and this is a good lesson I suppose though I would rather they weren't forced to do it in their leisure time gaming. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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There's a lot I want to say about this, but only one thing I will say:| Little kids get to have their play experience crapped on so some marketeer can go destroy a billion inf to feel special. |
"Patience is a virtue."
:P
Back to the topic at hand; I'm not sure what I'd consider the new bar for being "ebil" is, though I think something closer to 10 bil would be it. 10 bil would be about enough to fully IO a character (almost) any way you want at the drop of a hat, and that, to me, screams "ebil".
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it's still a fine benchmark, as anyone who can make 2b can easily make 10b or 100b or whatever.
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Originally Posted by LygerZero
2B seems rather easy to come by...
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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God forbid your 8 year old learns the virtues of patience.
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Originally Posted by Humility
Yep, it always sucks to have to explain to my kiddo that he can't make that [insert cool recipe] that actually dropped for him because some jerk wants to market pvp and the common salvage costs 90% of his character wealth. Yeah yeah, he can wait until tomorrow and I personally have no issues with it, but explaining to an 8 year old that he has to wait because someone is being greedy over some pixels gets old.
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An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Well for some being "ebil" is as simple as "using the market in any way that prevents me from getting what I want when I want it for as little as I want to pay for it". And for others it is "having more than me".
But to me it is simply enjoying the market and having enough inf to do what you want.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Let's see what you have taught him:|
Originally Posted by Humility
Which wouldn't really change anything now would it? Paying 300K for a piece of common garbage salvage that was 500 yesterday just because someone has too much time on their hands and wants to market pvp only encourages the behavior.
Bottom line, price fixing like that ends up with 3 outcomes. People with more inf than patience pay. Patient people get to wait to have their fun. Little kids get to have their play experience crapped on so some marketeer can go destroy a billion inf to feel special. They have unlimited access to common IOs in the family base. They are frequently gifted with 5-6 piece sets for characters they really like. When they get a drop they want to do up, its something they can do for themselves to learn to be self sufficient and play the game on their own two feet. Dealing with self centered jerks is just part of life, and this is a good lesson I suppose though I would rather they weren't forced to do it in their leisure time gaming. |
1. His wants > other's wants by defining the wants of others as bad and the work of self centered jerks but his wants are perfectly reasonable
2. Variable prices in the markets are always the result of someone being a jerk not any normal market behaviors due to player actions
3. there are conspiracies at work to explain normal behavio
My children just accept things they cannot control and try to solve their problems as best they can with what they can control.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
I think you're all reading far too much into a casual statement.
A game economy that is exceedingly limited and subject to manipulations that would never work IRL is not exactly a strong ground for you to be basing moral judgments on.
And yes, anyone who price fixed a piece of salvage to a 10000% price increase for the sole reason of taking advantage of others for the sheer sake of doing so, makes you a jerk in my mind. You can justify it any way you want, but the bottom line is that most of the people doing so are simply doing it to amuse themselves at the expense of others. Making a profit is one thing, manipulating the market to those kind of extremes is another.
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No one is being taken advantage of. There's no unwilling participant, nor is there anyone who is being lied to, duped, or misled in anyway.|
Originally Posted by Humility
And yes, anyone who price fixed a piece of salvage to a 10000% price increase for the sole reason of taking advantage of others for the sheer sake of doing so, makes you a jerk in my mind.
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If you don't like the price, don't pay it. No one is obligated to make their salvage available to you at any price.
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If someone buys at hugely inflated prices, you are taking advantage of their impulsiveness. |
Originally Posted by all_hell
No one is being taken advantage of. There's no unwilling participant, nor is there anyone who is being lied to, duped, or misled in anyway.
If you don't like the price, don't pay it. No one is obligated to make their salvage available to you at any price. |
It's a textbook definition of the term. The only difference here being that you think this behavior is ok, and I don't. I prefer to try and make the community I am taking part in a better place instead of using it to profit myself at the expense of others.
The beauty of this whole thing is... I can have my opinion and be correct. You can have your opinion, and be correct. And magically, the world won't end. I can think someone is acting like a jerk for things they do in game, and it doesn't have any impact on anything anywhere. I can think someone is acting like a jerk and not have any emotional investment in that, people in the thread seem to think there's some big raging issue here, and it's just not so, no matter how much they try to misrepresent things to match their view. The only issue I have with anything in this thread is people who are incapable of reading and think that making statements about out of game parenting based on a forum post that they couldn't even bother to read completely is somehow ok.
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Well, maybe you should stop lying to your kid?|
Originally Posted by Humility
Yep, it always sucks to have to explain to my kiddo that he can't make that [insert cool recipe] that actually dropped for him because some jerk wants to market pvp and the common salvage costs 90% of his character wealth. Yeah yeah, he can wait until tomorrow and I personally have no issues with it, but explaining to an 8 year old that he has to wait because someone is being greedy over some pixels gets old.
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Salvage isn't usually expensive because "some jerk wants to market PvP". 99.999% of the time, it's "expensive" because more people want it than have had it drop recently. Telling the kid that it's because of bad people who are acting badly is just gonna create a sense of entitlement based on false premises.
And frankly, nothing but rares is "expensive". A million inf is pocket change. Teach your kid to do the simple market-playing stuff (see the "10 million by level 6" thread).
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Really?|
Originally Posted by Humility
I think you're all reading far too much into a casual statement.
A game economy that is exceedingly limited and subject to manipulations that would never work IRL is not exactly a strong ground for you to be basing moral judgments on. |
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| And yes, anyone who price fixed a piece of salvage to a 10000% price increase for the sole reason of taking advantage of others for the sheer sake of doing so, makes you a jerk in my mind. |
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| You can justify it any way you want, but the bottom line is that most of the people doing so are simply doing it to amuse themselves at the expense of others. Making a profit is one thing, manipulating the market to those kind of extremes is another. |
You're asserting people are doing things... which are, quite likely, not being done at all, by anyone.
I already spend too much of my time surrounded by people who blame other people for the world being inconvenient, no matter whether it makes any sense or not, and no matter whether they have evidence or not. I don't want to see more of them.
Yes, I'm a selfish *******, and I want to live in a world full of people who form rational opinions based on evidence and information, rather than immediately leaping to the conclusion that whatever's bugging them is that way Because Someone Is Bad.
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Quoted from my earlier post: |
Originally Posted by seebs
Well, maybe you should stop lying to your kid?
Salvage isn't usually expensive because "some jerk wants to market PvP". 99.999% of the time, it's "expensive" because more people want it than have had it drop recently. Telling the kid that it's because of bad people who are acting badly is just gonna create a sense of entitlement based on false premises. And frankly, nothing but rares is "expensive". A million inf is pocket change. Teach your kid to do the simple market-playing stuff (see the "10 million by level 6" thread). |
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Originally Posted by Humility
Paying 300K for a piece of common garbage salvage that was 500 yesterday
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Yes, alchemical silver is expensive. It's always expensive. That's not what I'm talking about. For someone who wants to attack me for not basing my statements on information, you aren't much interested in actually looking at the information my posts contain.
Humility, give up. lol. I had the same arguments, but the market section isn't going to give on this.
There are plenty of topics in here about ways to "play the market" to get inf. Noone wants ways to make it easy to get you items. They are looking for ways to get it cheap and sell it for 1million times the value of it. They aren't looking for ways to save you a dollar. Some people just have toons that do nothing other than hang in WW.
What we have is people taking advantage of the low drop rates basically. IMO, it's the Devs fault for the inflations. If there are only 10 pieces of something for sale and 300 people wanting it, the value is going to keep going up. Not to mention the people that like to screw with the market by buying them few pieces only to relist them higher. It happens everyday but most will try to tell you it dont and it's just the way of the market.
I have several purpled toons across 2 accounts and billions in liquid cash and ive never had to use any tactics other than selling my recipes at WW. I earn what i have by playing the game. WW isn't a mini game, its an exploit of the sucky drop rate. My 2 cents anyways...
Eh, I don't have quite as much liquid resources I think... but I'm not hurting. I think I'm around 1B in raw inf with another 600-800 mil in salvage/crafted IOs in base storage and I just recently tossed 4 lotg 7.5s into a new build which is close to another billion right there.
It's not about having or making the inf. It's about being a member of a community who contributes positively. Something that most people don't seem to get.
If I go to a garage sale and see a cheesy antique cowbell that my grandmother would LOVE. Well, the old woman is slow, I can totally beat her to it and buy it first for $1. Then I can turn it around and sell it to her for $10 easily!
Some people like to treat other players as enemies instead of friends within the same community. I wouldn't do it to my grandmother and I'm not interested in doing it to my fellow players.
(Since people cannot seem to read, let me clarify this is specifically in reference to market pvp, price fixing and flipping. I don't begrudge anyone a reasonable profit for buying recipes and salvage and crafting for a reasonable profit or anything of the sort. Just malicious market fixing.)
2B seems rather easy to come by, and at one time I had as much as 8-10B. I know PLENTY of us monocle sporting folks have had and still do have, over 2B. Hell, now adays, 5B seems pretty viable to get a monocle. 10B? 15B?
That said, we've had this discussion a while ago and I honestly didn't look lately but I don't believe anything came out of it.
So lets hear it from the committee. What should be the new "regulations" to getting your top hat and monocle?
Being inf capped at 2B seems too low these days.