Stop the tedium! [Constant Buff Recast]
By
-Urchin-,
Posted on: 2011-01-13 21:22 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
I would NOT like my buffs working this way. I played buffers like this in other games and found it annoying as hell. And teams like this (stay together constantly for buffs) to be annoying.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
[EDIT: Small edits to clarify meaning.]
Breaking my own rule here to correct this interpretation of what I wrote. I understand that maintaining track of who said what in a long thread is confusing, so no ill will. But, we did handle this "problem" pages ago. I did not ask that the buffs last an hour. I asked that there be a way to recharge the buff duration without recasting. Doing this would require the buffer to still be around. You could not get a shield cast on you and then run off to go do other content. My specific suggestion was that buffs recharge if the person you buffed touches your PBAoE buff aura or AoE heal (e.g. Dispersion Bubble or Transfusion) and is currently a member of your team. Other people offered other solutions. I'm a fan of some but not others. Second, I only asked for this treatment for 5 specific groups of powers: Force field bubbles, Sonic bubbles, Speed Boost, Thermal shields, Cold shields. These powers already have 100% uptime. Powers that are currently designed to be situational would not receive this treatment. Clear Mind, as an example would NOT be on the list to be changed. Nor would Fortitude, Forge, or any of the "rolling buff" powers that is currently not a 100% uptime power. The suggestion was only for the standard "shield" style powers, and Speed Boost. [I'm aware as I'm writing this that someone is going to seize on this and say "The whole suggestion is invalid because what is a 100% uptime power is up to interpretation." It is, and hopefully the developers are up to that task.] The short of it: the only thing that would change in my suggestion would be that after putting shields on someone, you wouldn't have to reshield them unless they left your aura and stayed away from it for too long. The base duration of buffs would not change. People are stretching themselves to show that this would be overpowered, but they are not responding to what I and others are actually writing. Maybe there is a group of Force Fielders out there that is somehow going to overpower the game if they suddenly get some of the animation time they currently spend recasting shields to spend on casting other powers instead. But I seriously, seriously doubt it. Ok, out for real this time. Thanks for your time. |
So once again for those of us who LIKE the buffing as is this should be made as an option. I don't agree that those buffs should be changed to auras.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I'd settle for the shields just affecting the whole team in one cast, with increased endurance cost to match.
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But we know those people were just plain wrong, right? I mean, that's one of the few cases where it's not just difference of opinion: they got to keep everything they had before it went inherent, and then got some extra stuff. Nerf, or even semi-nerf, requires some kind of reduction - that it wasn't as much extra stuff as they wanted doesn't change that "got to keep everything they had before it" is 100% contradictory to "nerf".
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
The only thing I'll say is that some saw the lack of more slots when stamina went inherent as a semi nerf.
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I'd just like to say that from experience of playing a lot of Empathy and Sonic Resonance, Sonic is a far, far less cast time consuming buffer. Making it even less so would be absurd(aside from the shield cast time normalization I suggested).
I don't find buffing tedious, it's a matter of preference of how you want to play. When I want to just blast and destroy mobs, I play my Blaster. When I want to defend my team and squeeze in blasts when possible, I play my Defender.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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That isn't what he's suggesting though. OTs idea refreshes things as long as the receiver gets close to the caster sometime before the duration runs out. They don't have to stay there to keep it. (And anyone who doesn't stay somewhere you can find them wouldn't be getting buffs under the current system anyway.)|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I would NOT like my buffs working this way. I played buffers like this in other games and found it annoying as hell. And teams like this (stay together constantly for buffs) to be annoying.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
I don't find buffing tedious, it's a matter of preference of how you want to play. When I want to just blast and destroy mobs, I play my Blaster. When I want to defend my team and squeeze in blasts when possible, I play my Defender.
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Quote:
I don't have a lot of experience with controllers(I don't have a level 50 one). I have one in the low 40's(Fire/Kin), and I try to use my hard controls as often and wisely as I can, while also keeping up the buffs. Reactive defending plays second fiddle to my hard controls.
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Originally Posted by Morganite
What do you do when you're playing a controller?
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
Quote:
You know, we could have our cake and eat it too. See the epic ATs or now DP's "pick this power and get N more". Have the "shield" powers grant two sub-powers. One is your standard, run of the mill shields like now. The other is the end-hog, large-range, sight-limited PBAoE buff. Done! Pick which you want to use!|
Originally Posted by Endlessly
I'd settle for the shields just affecting the whole team in one cast, with increased endurance cost to match.
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There's some slotting concerns there (you can now slot more +def or +res sets in the two powers). On the flip side if you wanted both you'd have to spend extra slots. I don't see that being a total showstopper. They'd have to make sure they two buffs (ST/AoE) didn't stack from the same caster, but that shouldn't be *that* hard. If it happens to clear up how buffs do and don't stack (the double-stack zoning, the don't-vengeance-till-the-last-is-down-or-it-is-wasted) to something a bit more consistent... that'd also be a nice QoL improvement.
Now that's not a bad idea at all.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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I wouldn't mind this. I don't really see it happening, but at least its a solution that let's people keep the one that works better for them.
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Originally Posted by Rhysem
You know, we could have our cake and eat it too. See the epic ATs or now DP's "pick this power and get N more". Have the "shield" powers grant two sub-powers. One is your standard, run of the mill shields like now. The other is the end-hog, large-range, sight-limited PBAoE buff. Done! Pick which you want to use!
There's some slotting concerns there (you can now slot more +def or +res sets in the two powers). On the flip side if you wanted both you'd have to spend extra slots. I don't see that being a total showstopper. They'd have to make sure they two buffs (ST/AoE) didn't stack from the same caster, but that shouldn't be *that* hard. If it happens to clear up how buffs do and don't stack (the double-stack zoning, the don't-vengeance-till-the-last-is-down-or-it-is-wasted) to something a bit more consistent... that'd also be a nice QoL improvement. |
My Bots/FF MM is one of my favorite charters. But applying bubbles on my team and 6 pets is just tedious.
It also always leaves me at the back of the pack trying to catch up. TF teams excet MO ones move rather fast. And many toons are now at soft cap....so my bubbles are nice to have...only.
I have to bubble my pets to get them to soft cap def. Otherwise they die to fast...making me ineffectual as a damage dealer (AI needs to be fixed plug here).
Bubbling my pets puts me even further behind.
So my suggestion is extend bubble duration to 5 minutes...so I can do other things beside buff for the next 4 minutes. And at the same time...make it so if I bubble one pet - I bubble all..I would gladly pay the extra endurance.
LvL 50 Dark Dark, Emp/Rad Defenders
LvL 50 Inv/Axe, Fire/Fire, Stone/Stone, Mace/Shield Tanks, EM/Inv
LvL 50 Spines/DA Scrapper
LvL 50 Ice/Storm, Ice/Rad, Earth/Rad, 2 Fire/Kin, Ill/Rad, Grav/FF, Controller Elec/Storm
LvL 50 Bots/FF, Merc/Traps, MM Thugs/Traps, Demon/Thermal
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I have a feeling this would be very difficult to implement, but would not mind if they did this. I would argue you'd HAVE to respec into it to get this option, the same way you have to respec to get inherent stamina now.
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Originally Posted by Rhysem
You know, we could have our cake and eat it too. See the epic ATs or now DP's "pick this power and get N more". Have the "shield" powers grant two sub-powers. One is your standard, run of the mill shields like now. The other is the end-hog, large-range, sight-limited PBAoE buff. Done! Pick which you want to use!
There's some slotting concerns there (you can now slot more +def or +res sets in the two powers). On the flip side if you wanted both you'd have to spend extra slots. I don't see that being a total showstopper. They'd have to make sure they two buffs (ST/AoE) didn't stack from the same caster, but that shouldn't be *that* hard. If it happens to clear up how buffs do and don't stack (the double-stack zoning, the don't-vengeance-till-the-last-is-down-or-it-is-wasted) to something a bit more consistent... that'd also be a nice QoL improvement. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
MMs tend to be an exception in here - as I (somewhat) agree bubbling a pet should be an AOE affair. (Except, of course, that it's a bit irksome when you have "only one" Tier1 die.) |
Originally Posted by WenDarkFall
My Bots/FF MM is one of my favorite charters. But applying bubbles on my team and 6 pets is just tedious.
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Still, it's a matter of prioritizing. For me - well, it depends on the character, somewhat. Some I'll say, plainly, that my pets = my life and my priority, so be happy with leadership. Other times (sometimes on the same character, different situation) I'll buff only Tier2 and Tier3, and buff the rest of the team.
*Absolutely everything* doesn't need to have/keep bubbles.
If the baseline for the shields became one hour, SB one half hour, and mez prot 15 minutes (the current ratio is 4:2:1, I think), you'd see people with second accounts furiously PLing emps, kins, bubblers, and ringers. You'd see second account toons in RWZ and Cim. They'd be buffing people for high-end TFs ... and nothing else. They wouldn't even have to be invited to a team.
The insane whackiness a coordinated group of people could get up to is nucking futs. A team of blasters could go into the ITF with /hard/-capped defense and resistance (to all but psi); unbreakable mez protection; hard-capped recharge; endless endurance; possibly silly amounts of regen (not much mention of Regen Aura in this thread, mind you). I've done kill-all ITFs on RO teams in 50 minutes. A team of buffed sonic blasters could probably do it in half that.
To combat that level of extreme power-gaming, what would the devs do?
[EDIT: Small edits to clarify meaning.]
Breaking my own rule here to correct this interpretation of what I wrote. I understand that maintaining track of who said what in a long thread is confusing, so no ill will. But, we did handle this "problem" pages ago.
I did not ask that the buffs last an hour. I asked that there be a way to recharge the buff duration without recasting. Doing this would require the buffer to still be around. You could not get a shield cast on you and then run off to go do other content. My specific suggestion was that buffs recharge if the person you buffed touches your PBAoE buff aura or AoE heal (e.g. Dispersion Bubble or Transfusion) and is currently a member of your team. Other people offered other solutions. I'm a fan of some but not others.
Second, I only asked for this treatment for 5 specific groups of powers: Force field bubbles, Sonic bubbles, Speed Boost, Thermal shields, Cold shields. These powers already have 100% uptime. Powers that are currently designed to be situational would not receive this treatment. Clear Mind, as an example would NOT be on the list to be changed. Nor would Fortitude, Forge, or any of the "rolling buff" powers that is currently not a 100% uptime power. The suggestion was only for the standard "shield" style powers, and Speed Boost. [I'm aware as I'm writing this that someone is going to seize on this and say "The whole suggestion is invalid because what is a 100% uptime power is up to interpretation." It is, and hopefully the developers are up to that task.]
The short of it: the only thing that would change in my suggestion would be that after putting shields on someone, you wouldn't have to reshield them unless they left your aura and stayed away from it for too long. The base duration of buffs would not change. People are stretching themselves to show that this would be overpowered, but they are not responding to what I and others are actually writing. Maybe there is a group of Force Fielders out there that is somehow going to overpower the game if they suddenly get some of the animation time they currently spend recasting shields to spend on casting other powers instead. But I seriously, seriously doubt it.
Ok, out for real this time. Thanks for your time.