/em embarrassed
/em shuffles feet
... thank you ...
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
Seriously...how many times will we have to stand in one of the 3-4 instances of the RWZ asking someone to leave so our last 1-2 leaguemates can enter for a Trial?
|
- Rikti War Zone
- Pocket D
- Midnighter's Club
- Cimerora
Why are SG Bases NOT on the list of Co-op zones?
Think about it.
If the interior of SG Bases were Co-op Zones ... what would be the impact on functionality? I mean, seriously ... there really aren't that many "interactable" items inside of SG Bases.
There are no Contacts inside of Bases, aside from the Pillar of Ice and Flame. Ouroboros has a Red/Blue Divide to it, very probably (I have to assume) for precisely this reason ... the Mission System, as revealed by Second Measure in a USTREAM Chat, has some very fundamental assumptions built into it involving Alignment.
Simplest Solution? Make TWO (or in this case, FOUR) Pillars of Ice and Flame. A Red Pedestal Pillar for Redside Flashbacks, and a Blue Pedestal Pillar for Blueside Flashbacks (with arcane and tech counterparts, making the four). The Red Pillar only "responds" to clicks from Villains/Rogues. The Blue Pillar only "responds" to clicks from Heroes/Vigilantes.
Storage Bins. Inspiration, Enhancement, Salvage.
We already have a UI element to set permissions on our Storage Bins by SG Ranking. How "hard" would it be to program an expansion of the existing UI so as to offer 5 Ranks Blue Aligned and 5 Ranks Red Aligned of controls to the Permissions for the Storage Racks? And if you can do THAT ... then what's so difficult about allowing an extra pair of permissions for Team and League, so as to permit Teammates and Leaguemates access to your Storage Bins if you grant permission as the base builder.
Needless to say, such permissions would be set to NO by default, so it would require the intervention of a (human) authorized Base Editor to allow such permissions. So long as the Humans have control over Security of Storage, there's very little opportunity for complaints.
Tree of Wonders/Auto-Doc.
The Tree of Wonders and Auto-Doc medical AUX items permit the "vending" of items. In my experience, they are most useful for SELLING of Inspirations and Recipes while inside the base. These items are essentially NPC vendors. We know that it is perfectly possible for NPC vendors to interact with players regardless of Alignment, because there are vendors who do so in the Rikti War Zone, Pocket D, the Midnighter's Club and in Cimerora (go figure). Therefore, there is no reasonable programming reason why the Tree of Wonders/Auto-Doc cannot be a Co-op Vendor too.
Zone Teleporters
This one is ridiculously simple (to my mind, but then, I'm not a Programming Dev). Simply allow ANY Base to have Teleporter Beacons to either Paragon City or the Rogue Isles. Only restriction is that you can't have a Beacon to BOTH Paragon City AND the Rogue Isles attached to the same Telepad (ie. no mix-n-match of Red/Blue Beacons on Telepads).
Heroes/Vigilantes could only interact with Telepads attached to Blue Beacons ... and Villains/Rogues could only interact with Telepads attached to Red Beacons. Rikti War Zone and Pocket D would (technically) therefore have TWO SG Beacons ... one for Red and one for Blue, each.
Mission Computer/Oracle and Raid Teleporter
Just make Red/Blue versions of the Mission Computer/Oracle and link/lock them to their respective Alignment, so you don't have to worry about making a hash of the Mission System and its oh-so-unhelpful underlying basic assumptions. The animated GFX for these items could even be retinted to Red/Blue so as to make this distinction all the more apparent.
The Raid Teleporter needs no modification other than being Alignment Agnostic for use.
And that's the list of all of the "interactables" that can be found inside of SG Bases. Being able to link/lock interaction with Base Items should not be that hard, since the functionality for THAT already exists with every zone contact in the game. Contacts in the Rogue Isles don't talk to Vigilantes ... and Contacts in Paragon City don't talk to Rogues. Apply the same gateway coding to things like the Pillar of Ice and Flame (red and blue), the Mission Computer/Oracle (red and blue) and to Telepads (red and blue Beacons) and you're almost all the way there to making SG Bases into Co-op Zones BY DEFAULT.
And if the Devs can turn SG Bases into Co-op Zones as rally points for launching Incarnate Trials ... well ... we're going to see a whole new reason for spending some rather precious Development Resources And Time on something the rest of us like to think of as Building A Better Base Editor.
Also, if SG Bases are Co-op Zones, we really ought to get rid of that silly "if you're the wrong Alignment, you stop earning Prestige and can't enter YOUR Base" limitation ... right?
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
I hate to keep sounding like "Gloomy Gus" here but...
If you assume that the devs have an interest in putting in the time and effort to integrate bases into the latest of CoH gameplay, then there are lots of things they "could" do to make this happen. Pages and pages have been written on this subject (even before we knew incarnates were coming into being).
But again, I find no evidence that assumption is true. In fact, I find the evidence to be quite the contrary. Decisions were made (I'm guessing for valid reasons, in the devs' mind at least) to exclude bases (SGs) from Praetoria, from side switching, and from the pursuit of incarnate activities while at the same time promoting in game alternatives to bases in the areas of travel, rezzing, teaming and crafting.
What conclusion can be drawn from this? That bases are considered an integral part of CoH and will evolve as the rest of the game evolves? If this is the case can you tell me who is on the job? Or is it closer to the truth that bases are considered poorly designed, not worth fixing and on their way to becoming obsolete?
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
Quote:
This is why when I form a trial I tend to form it in a non-coop zone such as Brickstown and state that heroes/vigilante and rogues welcome to join. Granted Villain alignment alts can't and yes that is a downer as I don't want people to feel excluded, but I find myself weary of overcrowded co-op zones when a regular zone and being able to accept three alignments of characters works just as well to fill up a league. |
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
This post is full of WIN. Seriously...how many times will we have to stand in one of the 3-4 instances of the RWZ asking someone to leave so our last 1-2 leagemates can enter for a Trial? .
|
IF bases can be modified to launch trials and remove alignment restrictions for the sake of the league that would be great.
Just thought of a "problem" with using SG Bases as launching points for Incarnate Trials.
Currently, if you're in an Instance, and you cue up the LFG Tool to join a Trial, you will auto-fail to join the Trial. This is because (currently), the interiors of Bases are considered an Instance, which puts them on par with Mission Maps ... rather than with Zone Maps.
I don't know of any underlying code prohibition against allowing SG Bases to be considered Instanced (Co-op) Zone Maps, rather than being (player designed) Instanced Mission Maps ... although I can anticipate that such a fundamental underlying assumption probably underpins the foundation of the legacy Base Editor that we've (still) got. Meaning ... it just might be (ie. pure speculation on my part) the case that the amount of work necessary to make legacy SG Bases into Instanced Co-op Zones would be approximately equal to (or near enough as makes remarkably little difference) the amount of work to craft a whole new Base Editor that starts with a Clean Sheet Of Paper, which then oh-so-cleverly allows a more sophisticated sort of (Co-op Zone) Instancing which would be compatible with the LFG Tool and the Incarnate Trials.
If I knew more about the current system, in the "under the hood" sense of things, I might be able to say for certain whether this is the case or not. But since I don't ... I can't. I can *suspect* that this might be the case ... but I can't ever *know* or be certain, without being an employee of Paragon Studios.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Quote:
"If there's still no Base Love by Issue 20 ... or even the hope of any ... there never will be any. EVER."|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
I still stand by my marker placed on 12 Aug 2010.
|
Sadly (and no offense intended), I found your expectations to be much more realistic here.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
Just because I'm *RIGHT* doesn't mean I want to be.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Another reason I think it'll never happen is that I feel some devs are still dreaming of giant 'capture the flag' base raids that they'd still love to see one day. If you make bases co-op zones, you destroy that dream. (The other reason I believe nothing is being done on bases is because many SGs/VGs arn't gearing up for base raids the way the devs wanted. Because of that, the thinking is "Why bother.")
Global: @All-American Teen
70 toons across 11 servers.
Top hero -All-American Teen lvl 50 eng/invul Tanker (01:10 EST; 1/24/09)
Top villian -Poisoned Plum lvl 30 robots/devices Mastermind
Hey guys... did y'all catch this?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Positron
Supergroup Transfers (Including bases) This is something we anticipated and are actively working on, but it likely won’t be ready for City of Heroes Freedom’s launch. We are committing to bringing you this service in the future and it won’t be just to the VIP server, it will be between any server. It will likely require the Supergroup’s Super Leader to actually execute the transfer. |
Quote:
|
Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey guys... did y'all catch this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Positron
Supergroup Transfers (Including bases)
This is something we anticipated and are actively working on, but it likely wont be ready for City of Heroes Freedoms launch. We are committing to bringing you this service in the future and it wont be just to the VIP server, it will be between any server. It will likely require the Supergroups Super Leader to actually execute the transfer.
SSSSSSSSSQQQQQQQQQQQUUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Noticed it. Means nothing in context of them ever revisiting base features, really.
|
Originally Posted by Impish Kat
Hey guys... did y'all catch this?
|
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
Quote:
when the trio visited the Burrow it was suggested that I hold a hide and seek event on every server. My response was due to the magnitude of construction the only possible way I could do something like that was if I could transfer/copy the entire base to every server.|
Originally Posted by The_Larker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey guys... did y'all catch this? Quote: Originally Posted by Positron Supergroup Transfers (Including bases) This is something we anticipated and are actively working on, but it likely wont be ready for City of Heroes Freedoms launch. We are committing to bringing you this service in the future and it wont be just to the VIP server, it will be between any server. It will likely require the Supergroups Super Leader to actually execute the transfer. SSSSSSSSSQQQQQQQQQQQUUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! |
also, for what I had planned, I would need about 20 people at my disposal.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
Quote:
actually it does, because in order for something like that to happen, that would mean a strike team would be dedicated to those efforts.|
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
Noticed it. Means nothing in context of them ever revisiting base features, really.
|
I seriously doubt that they would just work on that feature alone and not tackle others.
As it stands, funds are allocated towards my home business. I'll try to find some way to /resub this is worth sticking around for. all this change coming... so very excited. so much to look forward to. very happy about this.
as far as I'm concerned it's the kind of talk I was hoping for, they don't have to say when, or how, or what, they just have to say that they are. and they are. that's good enough for me.
I urge the community to refrain from the raging@ and just let things take this plotted course.
think cruise control.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
Quote:
Depends on your point of view, which obviously differs from mine. Nothing about the ability to move SGs and their bases between servers implies anything (to me) about them also allocating any work to fix or add to existing base functionality, it merely supports their position of removing hindrances to character transfers.|
Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
actually it does, because in order for something like that to happen, that would mean a strike team would be dedicated to those efforts.
I seriously doubt that they would just work on that feature alone and not tackle others. |
Quote:
| as far as I'm concerned it's the kind of talk I was hoping for, they don't have to say when, or how, or what, they just have to say that they are. and they are. that's good enough for me. |
Quote:
|
I urge the community to refrain from the raging@ and just let things take this plotted course. think cruise control. |
Trust me, I've been on "cruise control" for some time now. I have honestly become comfortable... or perhaps numb... with the belief that they will NEVER again touch SG bases.
I'm also desperately hoping they eventually prove me wrong.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
Sorry if this is redundant... i know i've made this statement too many times. Super Groups are dead, but the don't have to be. All the Devs no to do is add SG content. Here's an old list of this I'd like to see:
1) a danger room (obviously called something else) but a room that lets you do a soft respec of your powers and even enhancements and lets you test it out AE style. your build would go back once you exited the program. This would be great for working on PvP or PvE tactics.
2) Supergroup Jet... no hear me out. It would be no more than an Ouro portal (dressed up to look like the ship teleports you inside. Once on the ship (map) you can add storage and an insps vender. Then the team leader would pick where to go next. (say a mission in Atlas). After the Zone loading screen we'd see a animation on the jet fly through atlas as we look through the front view finder (wind shield). Once at the mission you just walk to the drop teleporter at the back of the ship. Click it and you are at the front door of the mission. Not much to this from a code stand point; just on small zone like Ourboros of fort trident that lets you and your team mission teleport. Charge a ton of presitige for it.
3) A mission computer that works. Put all your contacts on it. And I know everyone will agree, put mayhem and safeguard missions on it.
4) tailor shop of course
5) Store... even WW.
Then point! If you add stuff people want and can't get on their own (easily) then people will run in SGs again. An if not I'd still like the Jet anyway.
quick edit - double reward for TFs SFs or trials if the whole group is in the same SG in SG mode =)
Check out this!!!! http://www.youtube.com/user/LastRoninCoH/featured
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
Depends on your point of view, which obviously differs from mine. Nothing about the ability to move SGs and their bases between servers implies anything (to me) about them also allocating any work to fix or add to existing base functionality, it merely supports their position of removing hindrances to character transfers.
I felt the same way after i13. Since then, the crickets have been the only ones in the choir. Again, their interest in adding this functionality to the game implies absolutely nothing to me about their interest in the bases themselves. I can pay to have a trailer home moved without ever expressing any interest in the contents. Oh, I'm not raging. Never went there. But in my time in the game working on the various bases I'm responsible for, I've progressed from enthusiasm to optimism, to realism, to pessimism, to skepticism, and finally to cynicism. I was done accepting their repeated promises to "look at" bases quite some time ago. Now, I require definitive proof, i.e. genuine action. No more posts on the boards, no more requests for lists, no more excuses about who is or is not responsible for getting things done. Show me. Give me ONE fix for a broken base item, ONE new decoration, ONE more functional object... ONE more feature of ANY kind that directly affects the way ANYone builds their base. That's all I'm asking. That's all I've been asking for some time. Trust me, I've been on "cruise control" for some time now. I have honestly become comfortable... or perhaps numb... with the belief that they will NEVER again touch SG bases. I'm also desperately hoping they eventually prove me wrong. |
The Base Building Committee is currently running an event to try and rally Base Builders. The thread is on the Base Forum.
The BBC has been told by 'persons close to the Devs' (no, I can't say who) that Bases get no luv because atm they attract very little attention relatively speaking. Earlier efforts to get the Base Community to actually DO something to convince the Devs to take notice all fell through. We can make all the lists we want but we have to prove that we're interested enough to put forth effort.
The Base Community needs to show the Devs that we're willing to work for Base improvements...not just make lists of wants and demands. The BBC is planning a series of events to raise Base awareness but we NEED people to put forth the effort...not just gripe.
Like all things we want we have to be willing to work for it.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
Quote:
Self-fulfilling prophecy much?|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
Bases get no luv because atm they attract very little attention relatively speaking.
|
"If we keep neglecting this feature, it will wither and die on the vine."
"Clearly this feature needs more neglect then."
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Quote:
I have a lot of issues with the above. First off, we the players are not the ones who can or need to do work for base improvements. Tell you what, I'm a retiree with nothing but time on my hands. What do you want me to do (And please don't say become some kind of decorating contestant. My idea for the logo would be to make a pig with lipstick)? I've carried the water for the community up close and in person... and it just didn't matter. What do you have in mind?|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
The Base Building Committee is currently running an event to try and rally Base Builders. The thread is on the Base Forum.
The BBC has been told by 'persons close to the Devs' (no, I can't say who) that Bases get no luv because atm they attract very little attention relatively speaking. Earlier efforts to get the Base Community to actually DO something to convince the Devs to take notice all fell through. We can make all the lists we want but we have to prove that we're interested enough to put forth effort. The Base Community needs to show the Devs that we're willing to work for Base improvements...not just make lists of wants and demands. The BBC is planning a series of events to raise Base awareness but we NEED people to put forth the effort...not just gripe. Like all things we want we have to be willing to work for it. |
Second, with all due respect to the BBC, it's been their decision to focus on more lists in the past and more elite decorator contests in the future. I don't see the value of it... but then again nothing I've done has mattered a whole hill of beans either. So good luck BBC.
Third, there is a lot of selective hearing going on on the devs side if base issues are not collecting attention. For example, I don't know if you read any of the chat during last week's ustream broadcasts but it was very enlightening. I myself typed nothing but the comments from the community at large were loud and clear (and ignored). When the devs announced they were using a "strike team" development approach the ustream chat was a buzz with "Where's the strike team for bases?" When Crosscheck (executive type at Paragon Studios) made a passing comment about SGs (which was never explained... it could have been the server transfer thing announced later by Positron... I don't know) the chat again lit up wanting more details.
At one point other players were actually chastising ppl saying that base (and pvp) comments were not really germaine to the topic at hand. Valid point I suppose; but it's equally valid that, although these questions and remarks were frequent... they were never acknowledged let alone answered. It was all very interesting and surprising for a topic that supposedly garners "little attention".
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
Quote:
Allow me to add a couple more comments to FA's response:|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
(stuff already quoted just fine by Fire Away)
|
1) Give me access to the code and show me how to work with it. I'd be happy to get in and, at the very least, fix the broken stuff in there. Seriously. I know exactly jack sh** about it, but I'd be just dandy with learning... and doing it... for nothing.
2) As a prime example of the kind of "attention" bases get from Paragon, I personally know folks who have identified the problematic code with the broken teleport beacons for Grandville and Pocket D. These folks haven't just bugged the issue, they've told Paragon how to easily fix it; the correct files are there, they're just referenced incorrectly. Did you even realize they were broken? A lot of people don't. It's been broken for so long, most people think they're supposed to be that way. THAT'S how long Paragon hasn't given a rat's butt about bases.
Seriously, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but a great many of us already HAVE taken the initiative and shown community interest in bases. All we have ever gotten in return... was requests for another list.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
One of the reasons I joined the BBC in the first place is that, like many Base lovers, I was frustrated. However despite my frustration I was reminded of several things:
1) The Devs DO listen. They may not respond, they may not be ABLE to respond but they DO listen.
2) It was once said (no, I can't quote chapter and verse) that one of the frustrating things for the Devs regarding Bases is that "Players weren't using them as intended." My first question was "Well HOW did you intend for us to use them then?" Unfortunately other issues rose to the top and the whole matter went down the priority list. We're trying to bring it to the top or at least put it back on the radar.
3) Many features in the game remained broken or at least underperforming for YEARS but were eventually fixed or improved. A short list includes the train/ferry system, Defiance for Blasters, Vigilance for Defenders and the tweaking of numerous Powers. The supporters of each of these felt like the redheaded stepchildren for a long time until they were finally justified. The BBC thinks that if we can put the topic of Bases back on the table we'll get our day in the sun as well. We've been told that this will work.
4) You always miss all the shots you don't try for. Yes, it's cliche' but it still holds true. We in the Base Community can whine and cry about being ignored all we want and doing so will guarantee that nothing gets done. Or we can try a different tack to get noticed.
People close to the Devs have informed me that the best way to get their attention is to wrap the idea in a brick and put it through the window, figuratively speaking. We need to DO something that shows support for Bases that actually takes some coordination and effort. Making lists won't do it. Our current contest is the first step to test the waters on the Base Community's ability to come together. The second step (after we've tapped everyone on the shoulder to remind them we're here) is to actually DO something that will make the Devs see us. MAKE them see that there are enough of us that our viewpoints matter. Most importantly, let them know that there's money to be made from us since they are, first and foremost, a business.
I don't want another list. We have those. I don't want a stream of ragequits over Bases. We lose support that way, not gain it. I don't want people whining about how we're still being ignored. Whiners GET ignored BECAUSE they're whining.
I want a revolution. I want a sea of Base Community members to gather together in one place, at one time, and collectively raise their voices to the heavens. I want to raise a noise so great that the God/Devs themselves will look down and wonder what the ruckus is. I want us to suck it up, forget all the past sulking and whining and indignation and try one last time to get the respect we feel we deserve. If we get it then we can say "Yeah, we did it!" If not, we can quietly take our bats and gloves and go home. But at least we'll know that we've tried. Not sort of tried...but poured out our hearts and souls and left it all out on the field. I don't want Bases and SGs to sink forever due to apathy and neglect. If they're to die I want them to go out in a blaze of glory.
/soapbox
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
I hope you're right. I really do.
...
Nope... can't say much more without sounding fantastically negative.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
Left this game two years ago to take a break from coh, just got back in the last month.
Fairly sure I recall devs mentioning they were gunna do stuff base related "soon"....
...two years later and nada.
Sadly that sums it up for me.
I'm for anything that produces results. That includes being personally branded as a three year indignant whiner while the BBC champions the just and noble cause by igniting a revolution by throwing the figurative brick through the window (and to think it all started with a logo contest!). If you ever need a bad guy poster boy for the way to not get anything done, feel free to point a finger in this direction. Good luck (and I mean it).
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
Of course, that would require Supergroups to function as Co-op Locations, so you could invite anyone from anywhere to your League (not Team, League) from your SG Base. You could then use the Mission Computer (Base Item) to sign up for an Incarnate Trial, and it would open the typical LFG window to do so. People would have the option of using the Raid Teleporter to get to the Incarnate Trial, instead of just waiting around for the counter to complete.
Seriously ... the entire "Functionality" needed to form up and launch Incarnate Leagues is sitting inside the Supergroup Bases (which are gathering dust after all these years of neglect).
By no means am I saying that SG Bases ought to REPLACE the Incarnate system we've got now ... just merely that the Incarnate system we've got could be EASILY EXPANDED to make very good use of SG Bases, and their built in resources.
This post is full of WIN. Seriously...how many times will we have to stand in one of the 3-4 instances of the RWZ asking someone to leave so our last 1-2 leagemates can enter for a Trial? This is a great idea and a good way to tie the SG system back into the core game. It can't be THAT hard to program league permission to enter a SG Base (where there are portals in every zone instead of the RWZ which has limited entry points) just like Teams have permission now.
A grand idea for sure.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"