Inflation. How to fix it?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
And that's why this will never work. When the Market was added to the game the devs told us there was something like 300 trillion inf sitting stagnant on various palyers accounts and millions more has been getting added every day.

Reducing the amount of inf being generated isn't going to do squat if there isn't sufficient inf sinks to remove it first.
I disagree. It will help, it will just take time to do so.


 

Posted

I don't think a-merit conversion is a statistically significant inf sink.

Okay, how about a new tier of Much More Expensive supergroup base stuff, with higher prestige maintenance costs. Much higher. Like, 100k+ a month instead of 5k. And much more expensive to buy. Encourage people to use the inf->prestige sink more.

And maybe make some costume pieces unlockable with inf, or something. Or have a "Big Spender" badge which costs 1 billion inf.


 

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Originally Posted by firespray View Post
I disagree. It will help, it will just take time to do so.
As long as the inf sinks do not exceed the amount of inf being generated inflation will continue to rise.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by seebs View Post
Okay, how about a new tier of Much More Expensive supergroup base stuff, with higher prestige maintenance costs. Much higher. Like, 100k+ a month instead of 5k. And much more expensive to buy. Encourage people to use the inf->prestige sink more.
All that will do is drive players away from using bases (mostly solo players). I didn't bother with bases at all until they made the smallest plot rent free. And that was back when they were actually needed for storage and transportation.

These days we can get around the zones just as fast in not faster than we can using a base for transportation and with the new email feature we can store more stuff on my characters than we can in any base.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by seebs View Post
I don't think a-merit conversion is a statistically significant inf sink.
Is there another inf sink that got its balance disturbed recently?

Also, if a-merit conversion isn't statistically significant, where would you rank it among the other inf sinks?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
Also, if a-merit conversion isn't statistically significant, where would you rank it among the other inf sinks?
Here is my opinion for how the inf sinks compare in terms of total inf sunk:
1. WW Fees
2. A-Merit Conversion
3. IO Crafting Fees
4. Vendors (SO purchases, inspirations and common IO recipes)
5. Prestige conversion

Now the important thing to realize here is that WW fees encompass the vast majority of these sinks. If you look at 2 3 and 4 the total is tiny compared to WW fees. For example it costs less than 6 million to outfit a level 50 with SOs and less than 50 million in crafting fees to make a full set of 100 level 50 IOs (the max is 103 but few people bother to slot all of the sprint variants). Now I think A-Merit conversion probably does come in a bit above those, I can't prove it but just logically if every SO'd character makes 1 or 2 conversions or slightly more for an IO'd character that would make it a slightly larger sink.

Which brings us to WW fees. Given the current market prices each A-Merit that is made into a recipe and then sold sinks about 10million in WW fees which accounts for half of the A-Merit inf sink. Toss in the fact that a lot of items pass through WW's twice (due to either being flipped or crafted and resold) and that a lot of high value items are not produced through A-Merits (each purple recipe sold sinks as much inf as two A-Merit conversions) and I think that WW probably sinks quite a bit more inf than A-Merits although I'm not really sure how much more. I would guess that WW fees account for somewhere between 50% and 75% of the total inf destroyed in game but really that's nothing more than a WAG.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
Is there another inf sink that got its balance disturbed recently?

Also, if a-merit conversion isn't statistically significant, where would you rank it among the other inf sinks?
None of the current inf sinks are very effective. If the sink is too steep, like the base Inf to Prestige conversion rate (1,000,000 inf for 2,000 prestige), people just don't use them.


 

Posted

The 88's have burned something like 260 Billion influence in prestige conversion on Virtue.

There are other marketeer groups doing similar.

How much that matters, I don't know.

Hopefully, they've encouraged other SG's to do the same.


 

Posted

The best way to fix it is to go back in time and stop them from putting in an unregulated player market. Or any player market, really. They inevitably end up inflating to heck while the rich sit on top of their currency piles insisting that there's nothing at all wrong with it. Players are greedy and exploitive beasts who should not be driving an economy.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
Players are greedy and exploitive beasts who should not be driving an economy.
On the contrary, a game economy is the ideal playground for free market ideology.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
As long as the inf sinks do not exceed the amount of inf being generated inflation will continue to rise.
I realize that, but if the amount of inf entering the game is reduced, it will at least slow down inflation. If it's reduced enough, it will reverse deflation.


 

Posted

I am still in favor of gambling houses with pvp games and pve games. They work irl to suck lots of cash from folks. Why not in game too?


 

Posted

Dare I ask what exactly the problem with inflation in game is? Sure, prices are higher, but at the same time, the vast majority of income comes from the market (even if all you do is just sell drops), so everyone's making more money too. I'm no hardcore marketeer, and I can't say I've noticed any significant change of my buying power compared to my earning ability.


 

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Originally Posted by PhroX View Post
Dare I ask what exactly the problem with inflation in game is?
The problem is that people refuse to use the market because they don't want to, which leads to them not having all that much influence. Then it's easy to blame marketeers, flippers, inflation or whatever. As I've said before, if you refuse to use the tools made easily available by the devs (market), you give up the right to complain when things don't work the way you want them to work.


- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

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Posted

Here's an idea: Have an option to vend things to the Market. You could immediately sell them at the same price as to a vendor, then they enter the Market at, say, twice that price. This wouldn't do anything about high demand, over-priced items, but it might create supply for many lower-priced items that are otherwise lacking.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Get people to stop making stupidly high bids. The prices are driven by the players suffering from GottaHaveItNAOitis. There are too many players out there who have to have instant gratification and will pay thru the nose to get it.
What else am I supposed to do with all my influence?!

I got places to go, NPCs to kill.


total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

 

Posted

Mmm...

Inflation is going to happen when demand is high. With the new batch of respecs to take advantage of the inherent firness pool, the respeccing of characters got to be at an all time high. Subsequently the demand for all kind of recipes has to be just as high.

In basic economics, you have the laws of "Supply and Demand", obviously demand is very high and supply has diminished for a number of reasons, mainly the hunt for Shards.

If you feel the influence pinch and can't get what you need, welcome to the my club. I have been normally cursed in this game with bad luck with regards to drops. So hoping to get a purple which can sell for a zillion then afford the rest of my build, is simply not going to happen for me. There are folks telling me, I am having a bad luck streak and one day my luck will turn, the random number generator is fair. It's been over a year, I am still waiting for my lucky one day out of the 365 unlucky ones. So you may ask, how do I get the influence to afford things?

Before I19, I did TF after TF to get merits. Lots of Merits got traded first for what I needed. I did AE to get the expensive materials thru ticket redemption, and horded white salvage since I could not redeem thru tickets and they get abused price wise. That significantly dropped the cost of enhancing my alts.

I also took the time to make one of my alts a master crafter, I can even summon a table. By being a Master Crafter, I get discount coupons. These are very important, so when I make the rare Miracle, or LoTG 7.5, or Numina, I can cash my discount and even make them cheaper. This ability is important in the profit margin area.

Once I got my build's enhancements down path, I may need odd end stuff andn eed raw influence for that, how did I made that?

In the old days, I made lots of merits and trade them for the most WW expensive IOs such as LoTG 7.5 for instance, crafted them, using my discount, redeming my AE tickets for materials, and sold them at WW for a huge profit. Sell 4 or 5 of the LoTG 7.5s and you got a fortune in your hands.

After I10 the Alignment system came around, that was even better, I no longer had to TF! I separated 5 of my heroes for A-Merit earning purposes, and did 5 tips a day for each, for a total of 25 tips a day. I carefully selected my heroes for stealth and firepower so I could do the tip mission in about 5 min tops. Those retarded missions that forces you to escort or kill all, I just dismiss the contact and go get me another tip. So 25 tips at 5 min each takes me about 125 min or just over 2 hours. Don't forget you can auto-complete one mission every three days too. so after 4 days, all 5 of your heroes have collected 2 Alignment merits each, the most expensive recipe only cost 2 A-Merits, not counting purples which are not worth getting this way to sell later). So in 4 days you can get 5 LoTG 7.5 to craft with you crafter who should have been hoarding and receiving the white salvage you need (I hoard the salvage for LoTG 7.5, Numira Regen/Recov and Miracle Recov). Craft them and place them for sale. in roughly 8 hours of work over 4 days, you made over a billion influence.

If you respec and need a full set of 6 IOs, well after * hours and 4 days, you should have all 6 of them since many of the IOs of a set are worth 1 Alignment Merit.

If more of us where to do this, slowly inflation would drop, because if you notice I am not using WW to outfit myself as my primary tool.

If AE could also sell white salvage, that would help a lot. Also if A-Merits could give you a dual pack recipe for one A-Merit for those recipes not available at the A-Merit vendor because they are common would be good as well. Thus you get two common recipes for one A-merit would be unusually useful too.

Hugs

Stormy


 

Posted

Wow Stormy, you make it sound like a chore. I just bid low, log off and go play an alt. Or more likely, just plan ahead and place bids for what I will pay, then go have fun playing.

If you have a system that can generate a billion inf every 4 days, what are you worried about?


 

Posted

you won't like my idea, but i can think of a way.

make it harder for us to store influence. no more lvl 51-53 slots for recipes and enhancements on the market that don't exist in game.

and at the same time, drop the total any player can store per character to 1 billion at lvl 50 and decrease the cap for lower levels.

granted, this would cause an initial flood of buying everything that can be bought to burn the billions of liquid capital, but then it would equalize out - no more inf bank characters at lvl 1 (or 10) holding 2 billion inf each and no more 2 billion inf bids on a lvl 53 intangibility IO recipe that doesn't even exist.

however, i doubt most players would be effected by it, just those who have way too much inf, can buy whatever and flip for profit and outfit every character they powerleveled to 50 with purples instantly.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PennyPA View Post
Wow Stormy, you make it sound like a chore. I just bid low, log off and go play an alt. Or more likely, just plan ahead and place bids for what I will pay, then go have fun playing.

If you have a system that can generate a billion inf every 4 days, what are you worried about?
As you remarked, I do have a system that actually works very well, despite my attrocious luck. Many of my alts are maxed in influence and all 36 of my level 50 alts are fully IO set to the max, they are in short the best they can be in their own niches, at least for PvE.

Was it a chore, tedius, or what not? I will confess, yes it was in the beginning. Today I only do tips with one of my alts, so I can keep the influence flowing in, more than out. I produce and sell 1 LoTG 7.5 every 4 days, and took me slightly under 2 hours over the week to get, and you know how much those suckers are selling for? Ha ha ha, inflation has become my friend...

The main reason I posted my process was to simply share with the OP a way to be less impacted with the current prices at WW for just about anything, an overcome his present difficulties. In short I was trying to help him.

Stormy


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Stormer View Post
and at the same time, drop the total any player can store per character to 1 billion at lvl 50 and decrease the cap for lower levels.
The main problem with this is that it effectively lowers the market price cap from 2 billion to 1 billion. That would result in a larger number of recipes being sold off market. Not a huge number true but it would increase.

Quote:
granted, this would cause an initial flood of buying everything that can be bought to burn the billions of liquid capital, but then it would equalize out - no more inf bank characters at lvl 1 (or 10) holding 2 billion inf each and no more 2 billion inf bids on a lvl 53 intangibility IO recipe that doesn't even exist.
It wouldn't prevent people from using the market for storage, it would simply change the method. Level 53 IOs are popular because they don't exist but a perfectly viable alternative is to simply place lowball bids on high value recipes. For example a stack of 10 100 million bids on a Gladiator's Armor +3% IO is a safe way to store 1 billion since the bids will not fill baring a major change in supply (which would be visible far enough in advance that you can move the inf). There are so many ways to stash inf in this game that trying to reduce player storage is pointless.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Stormer View Post
and at the same time, drop the total any player can store per character to 1 billion at lvl 50 and decrease the cap for lower levels.
Go look at the market forum. Specifically, people offering (typically PVP) IOs for over 2 billion.

Now, go work out how they can do that. Even without the level 51-52-53 non-existent items being used to store stuff. And remember, as well, that you've got (playing NA) 11 servers with 12 slots a piece, and can email inf to yourself and others.

All you're doing is moving more stuff off market.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA View Post
The main reason I posted my process was to simply share with the OP a way to be less impacted with the current prices at WW for just about anything, an overcome his present difficulties. In short I was trying to help him.

Stormy
Not sure how the first post reflected that I had difficulties obtaining influence, that's not why this thread was created. Appreciate the gesture though.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA View Post
Mmm...
you know what's easier than all that?

buying low and selling high.

not that the OP cares, he was discussing inflation not earning power.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Go look at the market forum. Specifically, people offering (typically PVP) IOs for over 2 billion.

Now, go work out how they can do that. Even without the level 51-52-53 non-existent items being used to store stuff. And remember, as well, that you've got (playing NA) 11 servers with 12 slots a piece, and can email inf to yourself and others.

All you're doing is moving more stuff off market.
the math is clear in my head. all of these things i propose should be done in concert. you could cap lvl 1's at 10 million, extrapolate a curve and fit so your cap at lvl 50 is 1 billion. unless you have that many lvl 50s, you've severely reduced the amount of influence that can be stored on characters.

as for storing on the market. 10 bids x 100 million might equal that same 1 billion influence but you need 10 market slots as opposed to 1. you can only get 21 slots as far as i know... so do the math.


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