Why choose single target over AOE?
Not necessarily. There are certain sets that are definitely geared toward one more than another. Crab Spiders/Huntsmen for instance technically have ST attacks, but they are definitely not that great at ST damage. The same goes for Assault Rifle and Elec Melee. Those sets are designed around doing good AoE damage.
On the other end of the spectrum you have things like Martial Arts and Energy Melee which are focused on ST to the point that their AoE isn't that impressive. |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OLoL0vLOJ0
The first 20 seconds of that is why I prefer ST characters.
I'm not concerned with fast rewards, I prefer to take things down one at a time, but quickly (i.e. why I mostly play blasters). Sure, for my Energy blaster, Explosive Blast makes for a great opener, but then I let loose with Power Bolt, -Blast, and -Burst, and most things are dead before they can get up off the ground. On my Ice blaster, forget it, Frost Breath is used almost exclusively on a team.
To answer the title question, is simply comes down to what you are aiming for and how you want to play.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.

I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.

So, can anyone tell me what the advantages are to single target builds? |
You aren't going to see a Spines/SR scrapper soloing too many AVs, but a Dark Melee/SR is pretty good at it.
Generally speaking, the better a character's AoE output is, the worse their single target output will be. You don't hear too many people talking about the AVs they soloed with their Electric/Shield scrapper, but Fire/Shield and DM/Shield are very good at it.
Basically, since AoE usually deals less damage to more targets, the tougher those targets get, the less useful it is.
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
When it comes to killing hard/annoying targets, there is no substitute for a good stalker. Seriously, they're awesome. People just tend to get so focused on the AoE that they forget how nice it is to have the boss dead before the minions.
Then again, who am I to say anything, I'm playing a human-only warshade right now. :P |
My Bane can do better job than Stalker when it comes to "killing hard" targets. Stalker only has an advantage when he has time to set it up (at least 4-6s). With my Bane, I just use Surveillance, Shatter and then Shatter Armor.
Oh wait, my Bane also has access to 3 resistance debuffs 60% (even better ST killing), 30% damage buff for the team, at least 20% team defense buff and decent Aoe attacks.
I bet even Night Widow can do an excellent job at killing "hard" targets. Stalker isn't really the only one being good at killing hard targets.
Stalker's Assassin Strike is so overrated on a team situation. AS is pretty good at lower level when most people don't have hard-hitting attacks but as you level up and as you team more, Assassin Strike is very very limited. In fact, my Kinetic Stalker rarely uses Assassin Strike on a team. I just use BU + Burst and placate + Focused Burst.
Stalker's only real advantage is having more "critical" damage with teammates around him (within 30' radius which isn't large).
PS: In fact, I've been telling people that if you feel Stalker is lacking, give Bane a serious try!
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Yea, the more AOE the less single target damage. And while AOE is great for dropping large groups all at once, it's typically lower damage per target then a ST attack. Back with the old difficulty slider, I made a spine/dark scrapper (then king of aoe damage for scrappers). And while I could drop large groups of minions, LT or bosses gave me a lot of trouble. Especially bosses.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
I agree with the OP's initial feelings, that choosing single target often seems to leave you at a disadvantage.
Energy Melee on Tanks gives up AoE for single target, and yet its ST damage isn't that impressive, even when you take the stuns into account. My dark/EM tank was fun to play, but I didn't really feel like I had the burst damage ST wallop i'd signed up for.
Similarly, my MA/SR stalker, with NO AoE at all, didn't feel that good at ST. Another competent character, but lacking somehow.
And I've given up taking snipes altogether pretty much on my Blasters and Defenders.
Its seems to me that there are opportunities in the game for a bit more single target punch than we get. I'm talking about the ability to maybe one shot a red-con leiutenant on a Blaster using snipe or a Stalker using Assassin's Strike, or two shot on a EM Tanker using Total Focus and Energy Transfer.
Currently we don't have that. Is it the danger of taking all the risk out of solo missions that's holding us back?
It is never a choice between the two for me . i always have a nice mix of the two . and my elec mele /shield brute while his single target is weaker than other sets still has no problems with bosses an i can handle av's as well
just like my km/sr scrapper can handle large mobs . most peeps who concentrate mainly on single target that i know do it for pvp , where a Aoe heavy toon = "stop attackin me im just inzone to farm "
... every time I roll a character, I feel like I should make sure I have good AOE abilities before I go any further. If I don't I feel like it won't take me very far.
So, can anyone tell me what the advantages are to single target builds? |
I tend to shy away from AOE heavy stuff these days because they take to long to mature.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OLoL0vLOJ0
The first 20 seconds of that is why I prefer ST characters. . |
The 30-33 second mark gives a good case for AOEs though.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Similarly, my MA/SR stalker, with NO AoE at all, didn't feel that good at ST. Another competent character, but lacking somehow. |
For MA to work well on a team, the activation time must be even faster IMO. MA doesn't need higher damage but it needs very faster activation. Maybe MA is the best in PvP. Blah... I don't pvp.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I love my aoe characters, my single target ones not so much (except for my ice/cold def, but I don't use my 3 single target attacks much)
I look back at some of the sets I stopped playing and they are ones like MA, Energy, Dark melee, one of the reasons why I haven't played KM yet.
I think the best course for me to do next time is pair these sets up with shield or even fire so I can grab some extra aoe
Freedom Server - Main = Lil Bug & way too many alts to list
But clearly Stark merely has a couple AOE attacks. The rest are single target. And his uni-beam's cone kinda stinks.
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Thor - "By my father's beard Man of Iron, wouldst thou not kb mine enemies, for I hath herded them and thy kb doth scatter them to the four winds, away from the Odinson's aura of taunt."
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)

Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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That video certainly shows a potential sub-plot of internal strife for the future Avenger's movie.
Thor - "By my father's beard Man of Iron, wouldst thou not kb mine enemies, for I hath herded them and thy kb doth scatter them to the four winds, away from the Odinson's aura of taunt." |

"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Almost everything I read on these boards seems agree with me. Heck, it might have even been the place where I got the idea from.
... It just seems that it's much more rewarding to have AOE characters. You can tear through huge groups in very short amounts of time, as opposed to killing targets one by one. |
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I guess I'll chime in on this.
I agree with the OP, AoE has always seemed a lot more epic for me than ST. Sure, both are useful, but other than for pure concept, it's pretty safe to admit that AoE is a lot more useful overall.
Take two people, one pure AoE and one pure ST. Not only does the AoE person contribute much more overall damage in a team setting, don't forget that he also does damage to the hard targets too. It may not be that much, but it's noticeable, and it adds up. Meanwhile, the ST damage person is doing ZERO damage to everything other than the one target he's attacking.
In my personal experience, I've always felt that I added A LOT more to a team if I was playing something with a lot of AoE damage. Honestly I don't know how anybody could even argue with that. If I could choose a guy that would either 1.) kill the entire spawn minus the boss, while doing some damage to the boss as well, or 2.) kill just the one boss, while doing NOTHING to the rest of the spawn, I would go with #1 in like 99% of cases. It's just more useful.
A team with no serious ST damage can still easily clean up the 1 or 2 bosses left over after their AoE carnage. But a team with no AoE damage will be severely handicapped, because they'll have to kill everything one by one, increasing the time it takes to do the mission by several times.
Going back to my personal experience, I have one of the top ST performers in the game in a DM/SR scrapper. I hated leveling him up. I felt so useless on teams when I'd go in there and take out a couple Lt's or one boss....while someone else on the team killed the ENTIRE rest of the spawn in the same amount of time. I definitely did not feel like a super hero.
That video certainly shows a potential sub-plot of internal strife for the future Avenger's movie.
Thor - "By my father's beard Man of Iron, wouldst thou not kb mine enemies, for I hath herded them and thy kb doth scatter them to the four winds, away from the Odinson's aura of taunt." |
You pick ST because you want to be the guy to kill the AV/EB.
You pick AoE becuase you want to remove all the minions and Lieuts. Whatever you like better. ST based toons can solo with bosses turned on, no matter what archtype you choose. AoE will probably turn bosses off solo. But it depends on your survivability. An AoE scrapper or tank could probably leave bosses on. An AoE blaster, maybe not, but can run farm missions all day long. So there are plusses and minuses to any build you go for. |
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
I agree with the OP, AoE has always seemed a lot more epic for me than ST. Sure, both are useful, but other than for pure concept, it's pretty safe to admit that AoE is a lot more useful overall. Take two people, one pure AoE and one pure ST. Not only does the AoE person contribute much more overall damage in a team setting, don't forget that he also does damage to the hard targets too. It may not be that much, but it's noticeable, and it adds up. Meanwhile, the ST damage person is doing ZERO damage to everything other than the one target he's attacking. |
I've never seen a full team that couldn't finish a task due to lack of AOE, if for no other reason than it's 8 people swinging at stuff. I have, however, seen full teams fail at tasks for lacking the ability to generate enough ST damage.
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A full team that fails to finish a tough TF is not because it lacks ST damage. It's because it lacks debuffs/buffs. If your team has decent debuffs/buffs, any Blast or Melee set can complete. You do not need Martial Art or Dark Melee to kill a hard boss.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
I guess I'll chime in on this.
I agree with the OP, AoE has always seemed a lot more epic for me than ST. Sure, both are useful, but other than for pure concept, it's pretty safe to admit that AoE is a lot more useful overall. Take two people, one pure AoE and one pure ST. Not only does the AoE person contribute much more overall damage in a team setting, don't forget that he also does damage to the hard targets too. It may not be that much, but it's noticeable, and it adds up. Meanwhile, the ST damage person is doing ZERO damage to everything other than the one target he's attacking. In my personal experience, I've always felt that I added A LOT more to a team if I was playing something with a lot of AoE damage. Honestly I don't know how anybody could even argue with that. If I could choose a guy that would either 1.) kill the entire spawn minus the boss, while doing some damage to the boss as well, or 2.) kill just the one boss, while doing NOTHING to the rest of the spawn, I would go with #1 in like 99% of cases. It's just more useful. A team with no serious ST damage can still easily clean up the 1 or 2 bosses left over after their AoE carnage. But a team with no AoE damage will be severely handicapped, because they'll have to kill everything one by one, increasing the time it takes to do the mission by several times. Going back to my personal experience, I have one of the top ST performers in the game in a DM/SR scrapper. I hated leveling him up. I felt so useless on teams when I'd go in there and take out a couple Lt's or one boss....while someone else on the team killed the ENTIRE rest of the spawn in the same amount of time. I definitely did not feel like a super hero. |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
You guys are saying it yourselves. "I just don't feel as epic," "I feel much more effective on a team". Are you more effective with more AoEs? Sure, in terms of raw, total DPS across all foes, AoEs in this game are basically always more effective.
This gets back to the point I made in my very first post. Why are you so worried about being that much more effective? If it makes you feel super in some inner RP kind of way, then I have no argument with it. If you're really concerned about the performance benefit, I think you're playing the wrong game. An experienced player can steamroll most of the content in this game with three fingers and a straw to drive the controls. Unless it's truly an internalized preference about what feels fun, I can't wrap my head around worrying about it. Play what you want, make it the best it can be and enjoy yourself. If you need AoEs to enjoy yourself, go to town building for them, but if you don't, don't sweat it.
I'll tell you what, though. If you're in love with AoEs, I wouldn't run around trumpeting it. The reason you guys feel this way about single-target damage is that AoEs are massively imbalanced here. I am pretty certain that the only way this situation will change, assuming it ever does, will not be to make single-target damage better.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
On the other end of the spectrum you have things like Martial Arts and Energy Melee which are focused on ST to the point that their AoE isn't that impressive.