We know it's possible with a single target (toggle debuffs of various sorts, plus Disruption Field). The problem is applying the same concept to multiple targets. The game has no system for selecting multiple targets at once, and no system for activating the same toggle power a second time on a different target, without turning it off of the first target.
If it could work, I'd get behind it. It'd be just like maintained enchantments in Guild Wars. But again, the problem is making it work in the first place.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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This is what I'd think would be the largest problem.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
The game has no system for selecting multiple targets at once, and no system for activating the same toggle power a second time on a different target, without turning it off of the first target.
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At least now I can ask the buffer to refrain from saddling me with buffs I find annoying.
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Um... no thanks.|
Originally Posted by Jordan_Yen
Based on this thread:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=247623 I was wondering if we could make things like speed boost etc, toggle-able. I could toggle multiple characters and buff them, but it drains my endurance the whole time and drops on them when they're out of range. |
I'm just sitting here thinking about a "speed boost toggle." I'd much rather set and forget - and NOT have my END constantly drained by it. Aside from the mentioned technical issues. And, of course, getting mezzed and having them drop when someone may actually need them on (thus them getting the buff in the first place.)
No, no thanks.
Edit: Plus... speed boost? Heh. People complain now about having to take a few seconds to apply it. Toggle it? *SB* *Team runs out of range since you're not affected.* *toggles drop* *Team demands SB again* /rinse /repeat.
If I understand the notion right, you're suggesting a toggle (like Dispersion Bubble) that will apply the buff to all the players in range?
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Don't forget how Laggy things get when theres a bunch of people at one location. Imagine how much worse it would be during a Hami Raid, Mothership Raid, Zone Events, etc if everyone had to deal with a dozen or more people running around with their buffs toggled on, on top of all the other stuff.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Um... no thanks.
I'm just sitting here thinking about a "speed boost toggle." I'd much rather set and forget - and NOT have my END constantly drained by it. Aside from the mentioned technical issues. And, of course, getting mezzed and having them drop when someone may actually need them on (thus them getting the buff in the first place.) No, no thanks. Edit: Plus... speed boost? Heh. People complain now about having to take a few seconds to apply it. Toggle it? *SB* *Team runs out of range since you're not affected.* *toggles drop* *Team demands SB again* /rinse /repeat. |
Well there's some pretty clearly defined problems with my suggestion, but the root issue I'm trying to solve is having to constantly re-buff people all mission long, one at a time. Any suggestions for fixing it besides what we have now?
An AOE buff would be a problem, because sometimes people don't want it.
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Set up binds. (My buffing goes - left-right arrow, pick next, left-right, pick, left-right (etc) until finished. Zips through quickly.) |
Originally Posted by Jordan_Yen
Well there's some pretty clearly defined problems with my suggestion, but the root issue I'm trying to solve is having to constantly re-buff people all mission long, one at a time. Any suggestions for fixing it besides what we have now?
An AOE buff would be a problem, because sometimes people don't want it. |
Prioritize who you're buffing.
You don't have to "constantly re-buff people all mission long." It takes a moment every few minutes, then you're back to blasting/controlling/masterminding. (And yes, I play *many* FF, Kin, Sonic, Thermal, Cold, etc. buffers.)
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If it would require a whole new system since toggles can't work with multiple targets, it would not necessarily have the same endurance or location requirements as toggles.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Um... no thanks.
I'm just sitting here thinking about a "speed boost toggle." I'd much rather set and forget - and NOT have my END constantly drained by it. Aside from the mentioned technical issues. And, of course, getting mezzed and having them drop when someone may actually need them on (thus them getting the buff in the first place.) No, no thanks. Edit: Plus... speed boost? Heh. People complain now about having to take a few seconds to apply it. Toggle it? *SB* *Team runs out of range since you're not affected.* *toggles drop* *Team demands SB again* /rinse /repeat. |
What's being suggested here is a whole new type of power. I suspect it would be easier to create a system for users cancelling buffs than to create the system being suggested, but if not the OP's system is probably better.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
I'm for some toggle buffs, but I'd rather see it in new sets, rather than put into place on current sets.
I could easily see a set like the VEATs secondary working as a toggle/click based Debuff/Buff set.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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This has been said a couple of times, but there are toggles that buff in an area. Dispersion Bubble is one. There are others.|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
If it would require a whole new system since toggles can't work with multiple targets, it would not necessarily have the same endurance or location requirements as toggles.
What's being suggested here is a whole new type of power. I suspect it would be easier to create a system for users cancelling buffs than to create the system being suggested, but if not the OP's system is probably better. |
Doesn't mean it's a good idea, just that it might not be as difficult as some are suggesting.
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That's a PBAoE, it affects everyone withing range. You would be requiring everyone who didn't want the buff to stay out of range. What happens then when your team is in, say a Council base?
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Originally Posted by Ultimo_
This has been said a couple of times, but there are toggles that buff in an area. Dispersion Bubble is one. There are others.
Doesn't mean it's a good idea, just that it might not be as difficult as some are suggesting. |
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Agreed, I'm just saying a mechanism to do it already exists, not that it should be done.
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Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
That's a PBAoE, it affects everyone withing range. You would be requiring everyone who didn't want the buff to stay out of range. What happens then when your team is in, say a Council base?
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Doubt that's going to happen.
I'd settle for a double duration on SB in exchange for double the cast time.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
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Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
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Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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While I disagree with the OP on other grounds let me just add this, I can't think of a single PBAoE buff that doesn't affect the caster.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Edit: Plus... speed boost? Heh. People complain now about having to take a few seconds to apply it. Toggle it? *SB* *Team runs out of range since you're not affected.* *toggles drop* *Team demands SB again* /rinse /repeat.
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Check out the Repeat Offenders network of SGs! You'll be glad you did.
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Grant Cover, Shield Defence. Only the team gets the +def from that power.
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Originally Posted by Atilla_The_Pun
While I disagree with the OP on other grounds let me just add this, I can't think of a single PBAoE buff that doesn't affect the caster.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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OP's not talking about an AOE buff, either. |
Originally Posted by Atilla_The_Pun
While I disagree with the OP on other grounds let me just add this, I can't think of a single PBAoE buff that doesn't affect the caster.
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This would be different from AOE buffs because the range would be much greater, and the effect and drain would vary based on who I buff or not. |
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| An AOE buff would be a problem, because sometimes people don't want it. |
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The solution to the root issue is... don't play a buffer. If you don't like applying buffs constantly, then don't put yourself into that situation.
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Originally Posted by Jordan_Yen
Well there's some pretty clearly defined problems with my suggestion, but the root issue I'm trying to solve is having to constantly re-buff people all mission long, one at a time. Any suggestions for fixing it besides what we have now?
An AOE buff would be a problem, because sometimes people don't want it. |
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No, the OP is essentially asking for Maintained Enchantments from Guild Wars.
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Originally Posted by Ultimo_
Agreed, I'm just saying a mechanism to do it already exists, not that it should be done.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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In either case it is still going to cause the same problems. Players that don't want the maintained buffs are going to stay as far away from the buffer as possible which can get teammates killed, and some people will shun inviting people with those powersets. We've already seen examples of this with Emp players. The phrase "Rockin the Aura" usually refers negatively to someone having Healing Aura on autofire.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
No, the OP is essentially asking for Maintained Enchantments from Guild Wars.
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Or put in my vote for a different mechanic that would suit me better. Which is what I'm doing.
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Originally Posted by Maniac_Raid
The solution to the root issue is... don't play a buffer. If you don't like applying buffs constantly, then don't put yourself into that situation.
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I don't know much about Guild Wars, but that description sounds similar to what I'm referring to.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
No, the OP is essentially asking for Maintained Enchantments from Guild Wars.
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The whole point (and I thought his point too with the enchantments) is that the buffer would be able to keep the buff on, but ALSO select who gets it. In other words, there'd be no need for people to keep distance like if there was a PBAOE speed boost power. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
In either case it is still going to cause the same problems. Players that don't want the maintained buffs are going to stay as far away from the buffer as possible which can get teammates killed, and some people will shun inviting people with those powersets. We've already seen examples of this with Emp players. The phrase "Rockin the Aura" usually refers negatively to someone having Healing Aura on autofire.
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Instead, I would select the people that want it, buff them and it would just be on the rest of the mission (so long as I had energy and they stayed in range).
Someone mentioned that the problem would be they'd go out of range and you'd have to reapply it, but that's still better than what we have now. Either that or this maintained enchantment idea where the link is still active, so when they leave range the power is not effective, but becomes effective again when they come back in range automatically.
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Well, very few other people seem to have a problem with the mechanics. And a new mechanic would simply throw balance completely out the window.|
Originally Posted by Jordan_Yen
Or put in my vote for a different mechanic that would suit me better. Which is what I'm doing.
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So, you're just gonna have to like it or lump it, frankly. Because, unlike certain sets that genuinely have problems, none of the buff sets suffer from brokeness that I've noticed atm.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Based on this thread:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=247623
I was wondering if we could make things like speed boost etc, toggle-able. I could toggle multiple characters and buff them, but it drains my endurance the whole time and drops on them when they're out of range.
This would be different from AOE buffs because the range would be much greater, and the effect and drain would vary based on who I buff or not.
Thoughts? Improvements?