No new zones


AzureSkyCiel

 

Posted

For a while at least, no more new zones. Remember what you did to Faultline? Magic!

I would like to see zones updated, but not necessarily redesigned like you did to Faultline. What about adding some details, or just changing a few things to keep it interesting. What about randomly inserting specially highly localized events like special enemies that wander in dark corners and provide some kind of special reward if they're found or dealt with.

Not everything should happen in instances. I would like a reason to sometimes take the long way or slow down and see the city now and then. The first time through the Hollows is an adventure. The 100th is a chore.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan_Yen View Post
For a while at least, no more new zones. Remember what you did to Faultline? Magic!
I can't speak for anyone else but I would much rather see the devs add more levels to Praetoria so players can choose to contiue leveling up to 50 if they don't want to choose Hero or Villain.

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I would like to see zones updated, but not necessarily redesigned like you did to Faultline. What about adding some details, or just changing a few things to keep it interesting.
The devs have stated that updating old zones requires the same amount of work as creating new zones. So they are doing the best they can within the limits of their schedules and budgets.

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What about randomly inserting specially highly localized events like special enemies that wander in dark corners and provide some kind of special reward if they're found or dealt with.

Not everything should happen in instances.
They've been doing this with zone events, other than that no. If you want to play a game with open world missions then theres another game out there that tried that. People hated it so much that it was forced to go F2P after only 1 year. People are refusing to pay to play that type of game and they came here instead where we have instanced missions.

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I would like a reason to sometimes take the long way or slow down and see the city now and then. The first time through the Hollows is an adventure. The 100th is a chore.
No. One of the biggest complaints people have is the stupid missions that have everyone scrambling off in all directions. People hate having to travel all over the place for no good reason and have been demanding that missions/TF's keep everything in the same zone they started in. The devs have heard our complaints and they are updating things to reflect those demands.

If you want to stroll thru the various zones then you are free to do it by yourself.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
I can't speak for anyone else but I would much rather see the devs add more levels to Praetoria so players can choose to contiue leveling up to 50 if they don't want to choose Hero or Villain.
I wasn't thinking of Praetoria when I said that. Sorry.

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The devs have stated that updating old zones requires the same amount of work as creating new zones. So they are doing the best they can within the limits of their schedules and budgets.
Even minor adjustments? Even still, I'm entering my vote for updates > new for paragon and the Isles.

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They've been doing this with zone events, other than that no. If you want to play a game with open world missions then theres another game out there that tried that. People hated it so much that it was forced to go F2P after only 1 year. People are refusing to pay to play that type of game and they came here instead where we have instanced missions.
I never said anything like this. Not even close. Instanced missions are fine, but some extra events here and there (not missions, just neat stuff) would be nice. Giant monsters are an example of what I'm talking about, but I'm suggesting smaller scale, but a lot more often, dispersed etc.


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No. One of the biggest complaints people have is the stupid missions that have everyone scrambling off in all directions. People hate having to travel all over the place for no good reason and have been demanding that missions/TF's keep everything in the same zone they started in. The devs have heard our complaints and they are updating things to reflect those demands.
Wait what? What did I say that made you think I wanted to have to travel more for missions? I said it would be nice if there was something to see in corners and un-travelled areas; not that objectives must be there. Even when mission doors are in unusual places, that still doesn't give me any reason to appreciate the design and other things in the city.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan_Yen View Post
I never said anything like this. Not even close. Instanced missions are fine, but some extra events here and there (not missions, just neat stuff) would be nice. Giant monsters are an example of what I'm talking about, but I'm suggesting smaller scale, but a lot more often, dispersed etc.
And the devs have been adding things like that over the years when they can.

Arson fires in Skyway
Troll Raves
Rikti invasions
Zombie Apocalypses
The Protest (I19)
Syndicate Takedown (I19)
The Great Escape (I19)



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Wait what? What did I say that made you think I wanted to have to travel more for missions?
Right here.

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Not everything should happen in instances. I would like a reason to sometimes take the long way or slow down and see the city now and then.
To me that sounds like you'd like open world missions that takes you across several zones.

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I said it would be nice if there was something to see in corners and un-travelled areas; not that objectives must be there. Even when mission doors are in unusual places, that still doesn't give me any reason to appreciate the design and other things in the city.
If you had said that I wouldn't have thought you were suggesting open world missions that cross other zones.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
And the devs have been adding things like that over the years when they can.

Arson fires in Skyway
Troll Raves
Rikti invasions
Zombie Apocalypses
The Protest (I19)
Syndicate Takedown (I19)
The Great Escape (I19)
Luv ya devs! Want more (that's all I'm saying) Again, smaller, but more frequent or more varied events is along the lines of what I'm suggesting. Asking for more/different is not a complaint against what has been done.

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To me that sounds like you'd like open world missions that takes you across several zones.
Definitely NOT what I was suggesting.


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If you had said that I wouldn't have thought you were suggesting open world missions that cross other zones.
Roger. I'll try to be more clear next time.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan_Yen View Post
Luv ya devs! Want more (that's all I'm saying) Again, smaller, but more frequent or more varied events is along the lines of what I'm suggesting. Asking for more/different is not a complaint against what has been done.
I understand the desire but they seem to be focusing on events that can include characters of all levels and can occur in different areas of the game, rather than limiting them to zone/level specific events. This hasn't always been successful. I'm looking at the Deadly Apocalypse which seems to never get any participation.



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Definitely NOT what I was suggesting.

Roger. I'll try to be more clear next time.
No Problem. It can be easy to misunderstand what people post sometimes. I may say something that I think sounds obvious and another person can read it from a different perspective. Happens to all of us from time to time.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
The devs have stated that updating old zones requires the same amount of work as creating new zones. So they are doing the best they can within the limits of their schedules and budgets.
I guess its not hard to imagine why.
To use an analogy for amending an existing zone, If the zone is a sponge birthday cake then you have to blow out the candles, take the candles out, scrape off the icing, then try seperating each layer without tearing of the next - before adding what you want as filler - then putting the layers back together, reapplying icing, adding the candles etc...

I can't pretend to know all the work involved but I imagine there are lots of interwoven things like NPC wayfinding around the current map which would also need to be amended. In short its a lot of work.
But then again theres the point of view that these starter zones are showcasing the game to new players logging on for the first time. I've found myself in zone chat defending the game and informing trial subs who were broadcasting "OMG, the graphics are worse than Second Life - LOL !!! ".
So Paragon City starter zones may look better than they have ever done, but lets be honest here, they are no Praetoria - they do need a redux, especially to get rid of all that Warehouse district which is 'all filler - no killer'.


 

Posted

I get the feeling that the OP is referring to stuff along the lines of Sally in Croatoa. Something you wouldn't neccesarily see unless you were paying attention. Sort of like little easter eggs within zones.

For example, you come across Stateman patrolling Atlas Park. You click on him, and he gives you a rare salvage/recipe and says "This'll help you keep up the good fight." Ya'know, small yet thoughtful things.

Am I correct?


- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own

 

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Originally Posted by Mothers_Love View Post
I can't pretend to know all the work involved but I imagine there are lots of interwoven things like NPC wayfinding around the current map which would also need to be amended. In short its a lot of work.
Not necessarily to revamp.

Yes, it was needed in Faultline. And for Boomtown, it likely would be as well. But Dark Astoria? Crey's Folly? They made the AE buildings "shiny," so they can "reskin" buildings, and those zones are big, laid out just fine, and just begging for some story arction.

They'd be great for a revamp.

The devs use the Shard as an example of it taking "a lot of work," but that's a bit misleading (the Shard is large, yes, and four zones.) It's like using a speedway on race day as an example that "People drive too fast."

As far as new zones - more in Praetoria, and I want to see more Villainside, as well. Heroside, you can take a few "paths" from 1-50. Villainside, you can't, and the "Trash Dump" look gets depressing.


 

Posted

/signing this overall.
though I would like to see more zones in the future, I think that can be set aside for now to redevelop the world we have thus far.

On the purely aesthetics front though, like with buildings and such, I would like to direct everyone here to David "Noble Savage" Nakayama's All things art: building edition, listed in my signature.


Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

 

Posted

It's interesting I came here to find that very thread. I can't help but notice david hasn't posted any sort of update on that stuff, or much of anything. I'm still not sure if he was the best choice for that position. Then again he hasn't held it for long.

Anyway. there's lots of suggestions in the buildings thread about things that could be done to spruce up the zones and give them a hair more life. The changes range from simple like updating NPC garb to advanced complete redesigns of whole zones. I'll agree that a lot of good work was done in praetoria. hopefully some of that can be applied to the rest of the game in time.

Changing things here and there will go a long way to keeping people interested in the world as much as a new zone would if the effort is equal then i'd say focus on what is already there.


Roxy On DA...Finally!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy View Post
I get the feeling that the OP is referring to stuff along the lines of Sally in Croatoa. Something you wouldn't neccesarily see unless you were paying attention. Sort of like little easter eggs within zones.

For example, you come across Stateman patrolling Atlas Park. You click on him, and he gives you a rare salvage/recipe and says "This'll help you keep up the good fight." Ya'know, small yet thoughtful things.

Am I correct?
Definitely the kind of thing I'm talking about. There are a variety of things that could be done that would take a kind of creativity, but I just feel there should be more variety of action in the city. They don't have to be full-on badge-worthy events. Maybe a car-wreck now and then


 

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Originally Posted by the_fox_Rox View Post
It's interesting I came here to find that very thread. I can't help but notice david hasn't posted any sort of update on that stuff, or much of anything. I'm still not sure if he was the best choice for that position. Then again he hasn't held it for long.

Anyway. there's lots of suggestions in the buildings thread about things that could be done to spruce up the zones and give them a hair more life. The changes range from simple like updating NPC garb to advanced complete redesigns of whole zones. I'll agree that a lot of good work was done in praetoria. hopefully some of that can be applied to the rest of the game in time.

Changing things here and there will go a long way to keeping people interested in the world as much as a new zone would if the effort is equal then i'd say focus on what is already there.
I agree with this. Having some clockwork cleaning here and there is a nice touch, though I think they could take it further. How about one flying or hanging outside a building cleaning the windows


 

Posted

I support the original idea overall, but I agree that Praetoria needs 21-50 content first. Or at least 40-50 content so Primal characters can go have some fun there other than badges and the three zone events, and Praetorian characters can return home for more work.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Well, I've been waiting forever for that little extention in the north-east corner of Steel Canyon to open. You know, the one that was on the map that came with the Architect box?


Global: @All-American Teen
70 toons across 11 servers.

Top hero -All-American Teen lvl 50 eng/invul Tanker (01:10 EST; 1/24/09)
Top villian -Poisoned Plum lvl 30 robots/devices Mastermind

 

Posted

Mini-missions in zones? Not necessarily. I honestly hadn't thought of this until I read this topic, but... I would really like to see something like say... The Clockwork Paladin event in Kings Row, but on a smaller scale, that can easily be completed by one or two people at the most, and occurs much more frequently, and is not advertised like the normal zone events are. I'll be honest and say I don't really have any good ideas for examples right now, but it'd be fun. Maybe have it grant a very short term temp power or title or something, to show that you did a good (or bad, for redside) deed for the day?

I mean, sometimes I either don't have time, or don't *feel* like solo'ing a mission, but want a little bit more than just mowing down mobs in the street to pass time. I hope I made it clear what I have sitting in my brain, but I have a feeling I didn't. :/ (Also, for the record... I would actually enjoy something like this more than I would getting new zones, though an update of the existing zones would be welcome. I don't go to half of the zones we have now, what do we need MORE un-used zones for? Be honest, when was the last time you went to, say... Galaxy City, for something other than a respec or zone event? More Task Force contacts is the only thing I can really come up with, and we already have zones that don't have one, so that doesn't really fly.)


 

Posted

I like getting new zones and wish that with each issue a new zone would be added; or at the very least an update to an existing zone.

Let's face it, Boomtown is a mess. Of course I have not bothered to go into Boomtown, other than tf's and the instanced maps, in 6 years, (with the brief exception to get the new badges.) I'd like to see the zone turned in to a co-op low level zone, much like RWZ. Added in a new 5th exclusive TF/SF.

I would also love to see more events that tie in with every TF/SF ending like the LG tf does. For example; after completing the 2nd Positron TF; the Vahz counter attack against Positron. Both Positron and Val. would of course defend themselves as well as the local police would assist as well. Make it similar to the Pratorian Event with the ghouls. After defeating x number of Vahz then chase down the remaining Vahz to a nearby sewer entrance. From there Postiron could join you in taking the fight to the "frankenstein" map for a final confratation with the Vahz leader.

To help those that do not want to join in the event but would like to start their own TF, a reporter/police officer. whatever could be added just shy of the actual event and broadcast to those nearby that they needed to talk with you.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scirion View Post
I would really like to see something like say... The Clockwork Paladin event in Kings Row, but on a smaller scale, that can easily be completed by one or two people at the most,
yes!

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and occurs much more frequently,
yes!

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and is not advertised like the normal zone events are.
YES!

You sir, understand what I'm asking for

Maybe then I would like to street sweep for a while and explore around. There'd be something to see and do


 

Posted

Personally, unless it's a new zone like a Moonbase or Atlantis, I'm not to keen on the idea of a new "part of the city" zone.

Have enough of them as it is imo. While not a big redside player (mostly because I just prefere to play a hero) that is one of redsides draw to me...less zones!

I'd much rather see updates to the zones! I'd love to see a partially destroyed Kings Row due to the invansion.

I just don't know if it would work, due to KR being a low level zone/early in the story, while the TF is like a later event.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

*Ahem*

HELL! SMEGGING! YES!

Ye gods, the bloody minded stubborness to not revamp the pre-Paragon Studios content simply makes my brain frag out. I mean, do a side by side comparison of the new content, and then look back at the old stuff.

The old stuff. Is. Awful. Horrendous. Crap. A one handed, mentally handicapped butt monkey could do a better job. Hell, I managed to do a better job of Azuria's starting 'arc' (her missions atm have NO connection to one another [See my Sig]) in one evening and a day. A simple, five mission arc that so far people have enjoyed, and thats not even using some of the tech I would have loved to have used due to not having access to Dev tools.

Honestly, people seem to have this total disconnect when anyone says 'Revamp'. You dont NEED to re-do the whole zone, for pity sake. I mean, Dark Astoria is such a fantastic zone, it has great atmosphere, it's genuinely creepy...and there is NOTHING to do there. At all! It's dead, deserted, wasted. Utterly wasted. Stick a trainer and store in the newly added field base, add a train of contacts, BAM! New content, minimal effort!
Seriously, am I the only one who gets this?!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Nope.

We don't work for Paragon, though.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
*Ahem*

HELL! SMEGGING! YES!

Ye gods, the bloody minded stubborness to not revamp the pre-Paragon Studios content simply makes my brain frag out. I mean, do a side by side comparison of the new content, and then look back at the old stuff.

The old stuff. Is. Awful. Horrendous. Crap. A one handed, mentally handicapped butt monkey could do a better job. Hell, I managed to do a better job of Azuria's starting 'arc' (her missions atm have NO connection to one another [See my Sig]) in one evening and a day. A simple, five mission arc that so far people have enjoyed, and thats not even using some of the tech I would have loved to have used due to not having access to Dev tools.

Honestly, people seem to have this total disconnect when anyone says 'Revamp'. You dont NEED to re-do the whole zone, for pity sake. I mean, Dark Astoria is such a fantastic zone, it has great atmosphere, it's genuinely creepy...and there is NOTHING to do there. At all! It's dead, deserted, wasted. Utterly wasted. Stick a trainer and store in the newly added field base, add a train of contacts, BAM! New content, minimal effort!
Seriously, am I the only one who gets this?!

Have you been hanging out with B_I and not taking your meds? Seriously.

The strongest opposition the OP has gotten to this idea is that some of us think that level 20-50 Praetorian content should take priority with updating the old zones in second.

And repeating something the devs have given us as an explanation why they aren't doing something faster isn't a "disconnect" it's simply sharing the only official information we have been given.

Don't pull a KittyKrusader, you're better than that.


 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Have you been hanging out with B_I and not taking your meds? Seriously.

The strongest opposition the OP has gotten to this idea is that some of us think that level 20-50 Praetorian content should take priority with updating the old zones in second.

And repeating something the devs have given us as an explanation why they aren't doing something faster isn't a "disconnect" it's simply sharing the only official information we have been given.

Don't pull a KittyKrusader, you're better than that.
Hey, don't you dare lump me in with lesser ranters, you cad
You obviously haven't been keeping track of my strong opposition to the (in my opinion false) belief that 'New shinies are better than Revamps!'

Revamps ARE new shinies, on account of having new content in them! The only reason I've seen given by the devs as to why they haven't been revamping old zones is the incredibly lame 'Because it takes as much work to revamp an old zone as it does to make a new one'.

Well, thats all fine and dandy, but what about the utter dross thats still left over from the Jackanist days of cryptic? (Yes, I am fond of that phrase) You know the missions Im talking about; Needless Fed Ex's, Hunt 50 carnies, Arcs that send you to every corner of the City and refuse to give you a mobile phone number (ok, the I19 transport fix has made this a little less horribad)
Arcs that plain old don't make sense. All of the starting contact 'arcs' are not in fact arcs. The missions in them have next to no corrolation, and tend to be as mind numbingly dull as 'Defeat all, defeat all, Fed Ex, hunt, defeat all'. I just summed up Rik Davies mission in Atlas Park. ALL of the pre-Villains contacts are that bad.

I'll drag out the analogy I use every time this arguement comes up; the Game is like a car. A six year old car, in this case. The 'new shinies' are like a new paintjob, big spoilers, shiny wheels, rediculously loud exhausts. The Revamp stuff is applied to the important things. Like the chassis, drive shaft, gears, stuff like that. And, in CoX, those essentials are the core game. Yes, Praetoria is awesome. I don't contest that. It's also not the core game. It's a paid for expansion. You can drag out 'Oh, but GR brought new 1-20 content!' Yes it did. And its STILL not the core game. The Core game is the Isles and Paragon. And they are going rusty. We have...lessee...six whole, fully made zones in Paragon. Six. Zones. That have NOTHING in them, except the one off hunts, mission doors or other dross like that;
-Dark Astoria
-Boomtown
-Perez Park
-Eden
-Terra Volta
-Crey's Folly

There are six zones there crying out for content, a la the Hollows. Hazard zones with decent content, and over-arching plot and stuff to do in them. How can that NOT be considered new shinies? Not only does it save you having to build six entire new zones, but that times saved can be used to revamp the old content that is seriously showing its age.

That IS a disconnect. It makes perfect sense to revamp the old stuff and fix up the chassis of the game so that it doesnt rust. Because a car can be as shiny and pimped looking as you like, if its going rusty underneath and the engine needs a clean, then it ain't going to change till it's polished up and de-rusted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Hey, don't you dare lump me in with lesser ranters, you cad
You obviously haven't been keeping track of my strong opposition to the (in my opinion false) belief that 'New shinies are better than Revamps!'
You're right I haven't been keeping track which is why you seemed over the top.

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Revamps ARE new shinies, on account of having new content in them! The only reason I've seen given by the devs as to why they haven't been revamping old zones is the incredibly lame 'Because it takes as much work to revamp an old zone as it does to make a new one'.
I agree that they are new content myself, but I'm not going to say the only official response we've gotten is lame in this situation because I don't know what their restrictions are. (Time, budget, available employees, other projects, etc)

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Well, thats all fine and dandy, but what about the utter dross thats still left over from the Jackanist days of cryptic? (Yes, I am fond of that phrase)
Personally I think Jacknasty sounds better.

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You know the missions Im talking about; Needless Fed Ex's, Hunt 50 carnies, Arcs that send you to every corner of the City and refuse to give you a mobile phone number (ok, the I19 transport fix has made this a little less horribad)
I hate them at least as much as you do.

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Arcs that plain old don't make sense. All of the starting contact 'arcs' are not in fact arcs. The missions in them have next to no corrolation, and tend to be as mind numbingly dull as 'Defeat all, defeat all, Fed Ex, hunt, defeat all'. I just summed up Rik Davies mission in Atlas Park. ALL of the pre-Villains contacts are that bad.
On this I think it's more the matter of opinion. Some I like. Some I'm meh about and some I flat out refuse to do. (I'm looking mostly at Mercy Island when I say that)

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I'll drag out the analogy I use every time this arguement comes up; the Game is like a car. A six year old car, in this case. The 'new shinies' are like a new paintjob, big spoilers, shiny wheels, rediculously loud exhausts. The Revamp stuff is applied to the important things. Like the chassis, drive shaft, gears, stuff like that. And, in CoX, those essentials are the core game. Yes, Praetoria is awesome. I don't contest that. It's also not the core game. It's a paid for expansion. You can drag out 'Oh, but GR brought new 1-20 content!' Yes it did. And its STILL not the core game. The Core game is the Isles and Paragon. And they are going rusty. We have...lessee...six whole, fully made zones in Paragon. Six. Zones. That have NOTHING in them, except the one off hunts, mission doors or other dross like that;
-Dark Astoria
-Boomtown
-Perez Park
-Eden
-Terra Volta
-Crey's Folly

There are six zones there crying out for content, a la the Hollows. Hazard zones with decent content, and over-arching plot and stuff to do in them.
I think you're being conservative when you only list 6 zones.

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How can that NOT be considered new shinies? Not only does it save you having to build six entire new zones, but that times saved can be used to revamp the old content that is seriously showing its age.

That IS a disconnect. It makes perfect sense to revamp the old stuff and fix up the chassis of the game so that it doesnt rust. Because a car can be as shiny and pimped looking as you like, if its going rusty underneath and the engine needs a clean, then it ain't going to change till it's polished up and de-rusted.
I don't think that's necessarily a disconnect. We know they have told us they'd like to do these things, but once again we don't know what restrictions they are forced to work under. They don't have an unlimited budget and number of employees to work with. They are forced to prioritize what they work on.

I would love to see the type of game they could give us if they had a budget/manpower like a certain nameless 800lb MMO.


 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
I don't think that's necessarily a disconnect. We know they have told us they'd like to do these things, but once again we don't know what restrictions they are forced to work under. They don't have an unlimited budget and number of employees to work with. They are forced to prioritize what they work on.
In the end, I think there are those of us that are suggesting that they focus their resources in different areas now (or soon). They likely set priorities based on percieved need. How many of us would rather they set priorities on updates rather than new? I started this thread to find that out and hopefully to show the devs how we feel.