Midnight Dodger What Dodges at Midnight

While I'm quite sure bio and chem nukes would help any team get the Dodger badge I'd hesitate ever claiming that Warburg nukes are actually "needed" to get it.

Just a few days ago I was on a team that threw out a few Shivans, HVASs and a couple of other pets but used no nukes and we still got the badge. True we did not kill Director 11 quite as "instantaneously" as I've seen him killed during other runs, but it can be done without nukes right now. I suspect as time goes on when new things like Lore incarnate pets become available this badge will be that much more "doable" without nukes.

I consider nukes and pets as equalizers. Sure there are some teams that don't need either, but not everyone is that skilled to run it. I would consider myself as a medium class player. Know enough to not be a noob, but not enough to know the optimum place to be and which power to use to keep myself or others from dying. Therefore, it is nice to have the added advantage of nukes for more difficult encounters. Although I haven't used a nuke in years and I have done plenty of endgame content which just shows how useful nukes are for most situations. I remember that the "only way" to defeat LRSF was to use the nuke and shivan method. Now people don't even bother with nukes and hardly ever use Shivans.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

And I'll still probably use both -- it's the only way to be sure.

The overkill is wonderful, isn't it?

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

There's no overkill, there's just "go" and "sb plz".

I see wut u did thar

Yeah the idea of "nuking them from orbit to be sure" is fine, but basically (like starphoenix was implying) the Warburg nukes are just there as a "crutch" for those teams that can't (for whatever reason) manage something otherwise.

As time goes on I suspect things like the Incarnate powers will make Warburg nukes pretty much unnecessary for anything. Case in point when the CoP Trial was first re-introduced last year everyone got so "nuke crazy" that the Devs actually nerfed it so you couldn't even use them in that trial. People assumed gloom and doom like the CoP was going to be "impossible" without them. Now on Virtue I've been part of a group that's been doing the CoP once a week and we get them done in less than 15 minutes - without nukes of course.

Basically I see the nukes as the "sledgehammer of first resort" when you haven't bothered to figure out the tactics that make them unnecessary yet.

It's one thing to have the alternate tactics, it's another to have a team that will follow instructions and use the tactics.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Sure getting a team of people willing to work together is always a challenge. But clearly the Devs want us to at least make an attempt at it or else they wouldn't have nerfed nuke usage during the CoP trial.

To me the use of Warburg nukes is a classic Leeroy Jenkins.
It's the sledgehammer you use when you -don't- have a serious plan otherwise.

Despite the fact that CoP can be easily done without the nukes (25 minutes to setup a CoP, 8 minutes to complete...go figure), the nerfing of the Warburg nukes begins a bad precedent.

Next thing they will nerf nukes in Tin Mage. Not that the midnight badge can't be gained without them but the precedent is there.

Though it is fun to watch the Director spawn then melt from 4 to 8 nukes blasting him in succession. Tends to bring a smile.....

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Actually you can already see the "next step" if you joined the sneak peeks of the BAF and Lambda: All temp powers (including paid temps like Ninja Run), except those found in trial, are disabled for the duration of the trial.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

(shrug) You say "crutch", I say "advance planning that anyone can do".

Crud, I never noticed that before (the ninja run being disabled)....that will stink for some of my toons that only have NR as a travel power

You and I both. Specially considering that Ninja Run is listed in your power tray as an Inherent power, not a temp power.

The same goes for vet temp powers (Sands of Mu/Blackwand/Nemesis Staff, buff pets), Shadowy Presence, Self Destruct, Beast Run, Mystic Fortune, Mutation, the starter origin powers, and any costume codes you might have.

The vet sprints and the AT inherent powers (Domination, Containment, Defiance, etc) work though.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

Yes we all know that CoPs can be done without nukes NOW after enough people gave it some rational thought. But back in the first few weeks after I18 went live everyone seemed so convinced that the only way to do it was to drop 20 nukes that the Devs felt the need to "knee-jerk nerf" nukes just to shake everyone out of that mode of thinking. Basically it was people's over-reliance on the "nuke solution" that caused the Devs to decide to nerf them.

Despite that I agree completely that the nerfing of the Warburg nukes began a bad precedent, especially since I contend that they aren't actually NEEDED for anything. The idea of "spot-nerfing" specific powers in specific situations seems far more problematic in the long run. While it's possible they'll do the same for the Tin Mage Director 11 mission I'm hoping cooler heads have prevailed and they'll let that one go. Sure while it's "fun" to kill Director 11 in under 15 seconds with nukes I've seen him killed in under 30ish seconds several times without nukes so that kind of "fun" only goes so far.

And hopefully they'll decide to not include Ninja/Beast Run among the restricted powers in future trials. That's just going a bit too far really.

From what I understand from talking to a red name is that the Incarnate Trials are blocking the entire class of powers (temp powers). That means Ninja/Beast Run will be disabled.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters