Question: good examples of second tier heroes?


BrandX

 

Posted

well yeah, as yous aid, its opinions. Tiers really aren't standardized things, its all about how one reads the words. i'd imagine the op is aggregating the reasons for our choices as much as our choices. i reiterate i'd personally prefer to read a nightcrawler book over batman, superman, or wolvie, but by my perception of tiers, he is what he is.


 

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Anyone who hasn't prominently appeared in a movie or an animated TV series can be considered T2 IMO. In this respect, one could say Deadpool is considered T2, since while he may be popular within the comic book readers (to the point of overexposure, as some put it) nobody else knows or has even heard of him (even "softcore" Marvel fans who get most of their superhero fix through the various animated series and live action films)


 

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Someone mentioned Deadpool? Strike a pose! He was about the best part of that movie.

I think it's somewhat sad that I can't really think of more than a few female characters I would consider tier 1. I personally dislike female characters in most mediums for a variety of reasons, of which none are 'because they're female', but it is odd there isn't more support for them. Is it just a lack of good female characters? Or reader preference? Or a shadowy conspiracy?


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@Starflier

 

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I consider Tier 1 heroes are those that are easily recognizable by the general public, like Spider-Man, Wolverine, The Hulk, Captain America, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash Gordon, and recently Iron Man.

Tier 2 heroes are those that have had their own books, and are featured regularly in Tier 1 books, however the general public don't know much about, but are well known by comic readers and those who have a passing interest in comics. Iron Man used to be Tier 2 pre RDJ, but now I'd go with:

Doctor Strange, Deadpool, Daredevil, Thor, Captain Marvel (Shazam), Green Arrow, Spawn, Green Lantern, The Phantom, She-Hulk, Power-Man, most of the X-Men, and Martian Manhunter.

And there are those that are somewhere between Tier 1 and 2, in that they are generally recognized, but have dropped somewhat in favor by the public or are known as associates of tier 1 heroes, like the Fantastic Four, Supergirl, Robin, and probably the Punisher (though I think of him as still Tier 2).

Tier 3 have had short runs with their own books, but are mainly known by those who read and generally appear regularly in Tier 2 books and occasionally Tier 1 books. Heroes like Black Widow, Ant-Man, Spider-Woman, Iron Fist, Moon Knight, The Master of Kung-Fu, Savage Dragon, Howard the Duck, and any character created by known artists like Leifeld.

Then there are Tier 4 are only known by those who follow Tier 3 books, but sometimes appears in Tier 2 books, and those who browse shops comic stores, and it goes so on.


 

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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
I dunno. Daredevil strikes me as a perfect example of a Tier 2 superhero, even though he carries his own comic. He's not tremendously powerful, not very iconic, and if it weren't for that dreadful movie nobody outside of the Marvel-reading community would know him.

Wonder Woman is another counterexample. DC keeps trying to make her into an iconic figure but it just doesn't fit her very well. She has her own series that keeps dying due to lack of sales. She's only Tier 1 because DC hypes her so much...left on her own, Wonder Woman would easily fall to Tier 2.

Another Tier 1 with awful sales is Aquaman. He's iconic, powerful, and well known, but can't carry a book.

I think you need to decide whether you want to rank superheroes by fame, power level, or marketability. There are examples of heroes that excell in one or another category but fail in the others.
I'd have to disagree. I think Wonder Woman is very iconic.

I'd say her sales are more due to the writing/subject of her stories.

She can be great, but it would take some changes imo, but nothing that goes with the changes I've seen so far. :/


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

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Beast Boy/Changeling.

Not only is he pretty cool, but he keeps having flings with a hot magic lady, all the while being green.


 

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Originally Posted by Psyte View Post
Just something I was wondering about. I've not been in comics for years, so I really am not sure about this. Anyhow, every knows the AAA-heroes... Superman, Batman, Spiderman, etc. But I was wondering who the second-tier ones were, what they're like, etc? You know - they're pretty good/awesome but maybe don't have the personality/appeal to be major stars/titles and thus don't get brought out that often, or can't carry a full title by themselves so are usually a part of teams and such.
Here's the thing, within the comic book universe, the Tier 2 guys are only slightly less famous than the Tier 1 guys. So, in-universe they usually are not all that different.

Basically, think of it as the proper English gentleman of superhero comics. Does the work, but doesn't get the accolades and adoration by comic fans. But in-universe, most folks in tier 2 aren't that far behind in recognition. They aren't the go to heroes, but they are specifically not down in the dumps losers or also rans, like the film The Mysterymen. You can have a small rivalry going with whoever you consider your tier 1 sorts but it's usually seen as a friendly rivalry.

Tier 2 is where it's at though, they get to have the fun adventures and actual long term change. Tier 2s are the guys that can get character growth. Primarily, because they don't have the same sort of fanbase that the industry "requires" the sort of stagnation that comes with being a AAA title. So, there's a lot more wiggle room for advancement and growth for these heroes than the Tier 1s.

Which, is why most of my characters are, in my mind, Tier 2 and below sorts of characters.


 

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Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
*snip* Spawn *snip*
By your own definition he would be a tier 1. He's had a movie AND carried a #1 selling book on his own for years. Just sayin...

I pretty much agree with everyone here, if it's not Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Wolverine, Original X-Men, Witchblade or Spawn, I'd say they are tier 2 or lower. You can't just base it on whether they had their own comic though because MANY tier 2 and lower have had relatively long running comics, Gambit, NightCrawler, Martian Manhunter, heck even Maverick (from Weapon X) had his own series. I think it's more of a name recognition plus appearences in big comic/movie events.

I think where it gets more vague is villians... Magneto, Sinestro, Joker and Luthor are really the big ones in my opinion... YMMV


 

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My two favorite heroes of all time, Cloak and Dagger. Had their own series for a while, then shared a title with Doctor Strange, then sort of slowly died out. Had a role in Civil War, but honestly I didn't follow it.

And the DC version, Hawk and Dove. Started out as a commentary on the Vietnam War in the 60's, then Dove was killed off in Crisis, and the series was revived with a female Dove. A really good series -- until DC covered their flub of the "shock ending" of Armageddon 2001 by having Hawk go nuts and murder Dove before becoming Monarch.

Again, supposedly they are still around (both Hawk and Dove female now) but I can't bring myself to read it.


 

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Originally Posted by PowerStream View Post
By your own definition he would be a tier 1. He's had a movie AND carried a #1 selling book on his own for years. Just sayin...

I pretty much agree with everyone here, if it's not Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Wolverine, Original X-Men, Witchblade or Spawn, I'd say they are tier 2 or lower. You can't just base it on whether they had their own comic though because MANY tier 2 and lower have had relatively long running comics, Gambit, NightCrawler, Martian Manhunter, heck even Maverick (from Weapon X) had his own series. I think it's more of a name recognition plus appearences in big comic/movie events.

I think where it gets more vague is villians... Magneto, Sinestro, Joker and Luthor are really the big ones in my opinion... YMMV
Joker is somewhat 2nd tier to me in terms of a comic reader. Sure he's violent and notable and all, and in terms of who Batman says is his biggest enemy it's him, but in all reality he's not really the star everyone thinks he is. Black Mask, HUSH, Penguin, Two-Face are all much bigger problems and are much bigger stars within the comic as far as who they are and what they do. Likewise Croc, Ivy, Harley, Catwoman, Riddler, and The Ventriloquist are also bigger problems and have to be dealt with more from the heart than just beating them down to really solve their problems and they are because of that bigger threats.

Joker is however a first tier character in terms of recognition, how he plays to peoples' fears, and to base level philosophical principal of the reaction. Joker is without a doubt a Reaction to everything that Batman stands for and because of that it touches on a nerve that we all find interesting, but I don't think he is well explored and those issues where he is done justice are few and hence why he's not in as many comics.


Johnathan Crane, The Scarecrow, is in my opinion another character that fits into that "not quite first or second tier" tier. And it largely has to do with he simply doesn't have much name recognition outside of comics and when you bring up The Scarecrow our first thought is to Oz and not Batman. He also suffers from the fact that his whole persona is based on the fact that the Bat-family thrives on fear to a degree. He has this mega cool schtick and his primary enemy just nullifies him and as such I'd really like to see him expand his role in the DCU, perhaps even become a permanent Sinestro Corps member.


 

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to me the tier's were never based on power level, but more on popularity. and since i've always been a fan of the second stringers, or underdogs, these are my kinda supes!

DC notably has Captain Atom (one of my all time fav's), Captain Marvel(shazam), Booster Gold, Blue Beetle (i LOVE the new powered armor version). Martian Manhunter USED to be, but he eventually became tier one, along with Green Lantern, both of these guys were DEFINITELY second tier when i was a kid, i'm actually really psyched that good old GL has finally gotten the due he deserved.

Marvel has Nova, who has had a serious resurgence recently with the focus on cosmic stuff that marvel has been doing (yay cosmic stuff!!!!), based strictly on popularity Silver Surfer was a second tier for a very long time regardless of his power levels, but like GL he has changed tiers with generations. Nightcrawler is a perfect example, much loved and underused. the Inhumans and the Eternals were always a fav as well, and Moonknight, but he could arguably be 3rd or 4th tier. but to dig ALL THE WAY to the bottom of the tier list for Marvel to find one of my all time fav's, we have to go to Squadron Supreme (a second tier title if there ever was one) and go with their second/third tier with the ALL POWERFUL "THERMITE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOW BEFORE THE POWER OF THERMITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh yeah, that was the time that girl got her whatchamacallit stuck in that guys dooblickitz and then what his name did that thing with the lizards and it cleared right up.

screw your joke, i want "FREEM"

 

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Originally Posted by Traegus View Post
to me the tier's were never based on power level, but more on popularity. and since i've always been a fan of the second stringers, or underdogs, these are my kinda supes!
The interplay between power level and popularity is what makes this complicated.

On power level, Batman is a tier 4, a 3 at best. But Batman is very popular, and as such is tier 1 in terms of recognition. And because he is top tier in fame and fan base, he's written ridiculously sometimes, and shown defeating Superman, or Darkseid, a deity level villain.

The character was more interesting before Frank Miller and Grant Morrison got a hold of him.



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