Still Trying to Make Sense in Justifying Getting IO Sets in the Early Levels

I do a lot with things under/up-to level 25. Those things work off the 10-25 salvage. (Some level 25 recipes use 25-40 salvage, some use 10-25 salvage.) They're cheap to craft. Most of them are cheap.

SO: About 34% enhancement, give or take.
Level 15 IO: 19.2%
Level 15 dual-aspect IO: 24%
Level 15 triple-aspect IO: 28.8%
Level 20 IO: 25.6%
Level 20 dual-aspect IO: 32%
Level 20 triple-aspect IO: 38.4%

What this means to me: If I frankenslot level 20 IOs, at level 17, I am probably getting roughly the same bonuses I would get from SOs at 22. But wait! I also get some set bonuses. Things like 10% regeneration, 2-4% recovery. Global accuracy and recharge. By level 22, my frankenslotted IOs might be giving me 20-30% global accuracy, 5-15% global recharge, 20% regeneration... It adds up.

And yes, Kismet +6% for the win. Love it love it love it.

Yeah, it takes me an hour or so of futzing with the market to get those bonuses. Then I'm done; if I never put in another IO, my character has SO-level enhancements, give or take, on all those crucial low-level powers. I may even have enough global accuracy that, with my kismet 6%, I don't even need accuracy in most powers to have a consistent 95% chance to hit even-con targets. Enough endredux and +recovery that I might be able to skip Stamina and not totally lose my chance to succeed.

I'll have to agree with the Exemplaring reasons. My level 50 blaster is primarily slotted with level 25 IOs in order for him to have a wide range of exeplared goodness. Worth noting something that Catwhoorg pointed out to me:

My old thread with exemplaring questions...
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=190479

The wiki I got pointed to...
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Exemplar...n_Enhancements

I always start collecting sets at level 27.

Take Thunderstrike in ranged blasts for a Defender or Blaster.

Slotted with level 30s its capped damage and about 57% end redux, acc and recharge.
Slotted with level 50s its capped damage and about 70% end redux, acc and recharge.

The difference is negligible - I'd defy you to notice it in game without looking at the numbers. I have capped damage, 95% chance to hit most enemies I fight, a smooth attack chain and no endurance problems with 30's or 50's.

The big difference though is having the global bonuses and frankenslotting goodness from level 27 to level 50, well over half my career.

I mainly play levelling characters rather than 50s though, so that skews my decision. If I really loved a character and wnated to play them a lot at 50, I'd probably buy new Thunderstrikes for them, but 5-10 million is also peanuts to me now.

The same applies to many sets, Crushing Impact, Doctored Wounds etc.
Some sets do benefit from slotting 50 IOs, eg Mako's Bite doesn't get capped damage until you use really high end enhancements.

Alot of the reasons for slotting IOs prior to 50 have been covered so my 2 cents is going to just reinforce those opinions.

A) Franken-slotting early is better than straight SOs or even generic IOs
B) Exemplaring is much better, since you retain many set bonuses
C) Any IOs, whether they are sets or generic NEVER lose their bonus, so as long as you have at least level 25 or higher IOs, they are nearly as good as SOs in effect, but you NEVER need to replace them until you WANT to. No more SOs turning RED.

One last comment about IOs though. Those players running around with a bunch of set bonuses pre-50 are probably Alts. My first IOed toon did not have a single set bonus before level 37 iirc, but got lucky and had a Miracle +recovery recipe drop, which he sold and turned into 3 sets of Thunderstrike and 2 sets of red fortune. Basically I am saying that having a pile of influence to begin with makes IO-ing your characters at an earlier level much more possible. If you Have characters that ARE level 50, they can go out and get more influence and drops to support your lower level characters better. Its the "Rich Uncle Effect" as my friends and I call it.

Been thinking a bit more about this, and brought me to Diablo II, oddly enough.

The levelling up process there heavily revolved around what I termed "Fear of Regret". You could spend your points now on Fire Bolt and enjoy the power right now, but you'd regret it once Fire Ball (or whatever) came along at level 12, and you'd wish you'd saved your points up for that instead.

CoX is refreshingly free of this in its main levelling process. If you invest in a Tier 1 skill, you won't regret it because you'll be using it through your entire career. Investments rarely go obsolete like that, and there are always respecs if they do.

This strikes me as much better - a game should be enjoyable now, rather than encouraging scrimping and saving for a future that's many hours of playtime away. Long term goals are vbital to this type of game, but shouldn't diminish what you can have now.

So I guess you have identified a little bit of "Fear or Regret" in the CoX mechanics, Fusion. Thankfully its a mild one, and can be tempered completely by having influence, which is freely available to all players.

Sets for most IO's are cheap. Some of the damage, health and stamina sets tend to be pricey at mid-levels. And in short supply, too, because they are universally needed. But why on earth would I slot SO's or common IO's in a hold/slow/confuse/taunt/etc., etc. when I can get recipes for the less desirable sets for like 5-10 thousand? Even the less desirable AoE sets are dirt cheap.

I tend to frankenslot with whatever is cheap. But usually, whatever is cheap also has 5 brothers and sisters who are also inexpensive, which is where you'd be seeing a long list of set bonuses on my lvl 30 toons. What you can't see, is that they are all CRAPPY set bonuses.

So, do I WANT these sets when I'm 50? Heck no! But if they're cheaper than SO's or common IO's, they give me a LOT more oomph in my powers... why would I NOT do this?

I don't understand the idea of neglecting ones gaming experience playing lower-level toons. 50's are fun, sure, but they're not the end-all, be-all, either. Wherever you are in the journey up to 50 should be just as much fun, and you really ought to be as competent as you reasonably can be, too.

[QUOTE=Dying_Breath;3328023 Also - my 50's don't get all that much play. I run them in task forces, or sometimes when I really feel like playing one of them, but I tend to like to level new characters rather than playing my old ones, so IO'ing at lower levels means that I have more tools available when I need them, rather than just at the end game where I don't play often.[/QUOTE]

I really didn't think about this one. I've got 13 toons and out of my 13 toons, 11 are level 50's. Do I play them as much as my mid level toons? No, not until i19 goes live then I'll have an excuse to take them out of the garage and break the ring rust off them...heh.heh.

I start IOing as soon as possible.

I like not worrying about broken red hancers when I ding.

The set bonuses are really welcome all through the 20s-30s

Several, as mentioned, have the same bonus at 50 or 20 like 20% chance for X type dmg, and still contribute to the set bonus count.

+Recovery, +Regen starting early.

Lots of reasons really.

Well the reason to have a low level proc, is if it's part of a set, you can get the set bonus.

I slot all my powers with lvl 33 IO sets, so I get the set bonuses when exemped to level 30+

Even get the bonuses in a power I don't have access to.

Now some figure they don't NEED those bonuses when exemped that low, but then I figure, why the hell not have them You don't NEED the level 50 enhancement values.

Just echoing and adding my two cents to some of what was touched on above:

1) unpopular set IO recipes are often cheaper than generic IO recipes purchased from the crafting bench, so why not use them?

2) you're never "stuck" buying an IO of lesser level than you want with the set IO's - IE, you can buy a level 19 recipe when you're level 16, instead of either getting a level 15 generic (and having the lesser bonus) or waiting until you're 17 to buy a 20.

3) Set IOs usually use different salvage than the generic ones they're similar to, often letting you craft them for cheaper despite having more "uncommon" and "rare" salvage required. Due to the distortions in the marketplace, common IO salvage is frequently MUCH more expensive than uncommon or rare salvage at the low and moderate levels.

4) Using IOs of any strip ultimately saves you money over DO's/SO's if you are willing to use the market. Yes the salvage can get expensive at the low levels, but if you're selling the salvage you don't need, that should bankroll the occasional ridiculously expensive Alchemical Silver or what have you.

5) Yes it takes a little time to kit yourself out with IO's, but it's ultimately less inconvenient than having a ton of SO's suddenly turn red when you level. Bonus points if you level in the middle of a hard mission and suddenly don't have many +acc enhancements or the like.

6) You can use "off spec" aspects of powers to get cheap +acc/-end bonuses (IE, slotting a cheap +acc -end -rec hold IO in KO Blow instead of an expensive melee damage IO).

I don't start using IOs until level 27 at the earliest, usually in the 30-35 range. It's not the cost, it's the time. I don't like slotting up 10s, then 15s, then 20s, ... shoot I can level unslotted through those (and I don't) in a matter of hours as it is. I use DOs at 12, 17; SOs at 22, and then start thinking about the good stuff. If I get a good proc or global of course, I use it as it comes.

well most of the reasons for slotting Sets early have been discussed, but might aswell add my 2 cents of a situation where its almost required to get Sets even as low as IO 30s:

anything with the Stone Armor powerset, once you hit 32/38 (depending on class) if you knew to be a good Stoen Armor character you need Granite Armor, well, that Armor gives a -65% Recharge, which is 5% less than what Hasten gives you in benefit for 2 minutes, with Granite Armor on, if you do not slot IO Sets that give the +X% Recharge Reduction Set Bonuses, your really in the hole when it comes to using your attack powers, since with Granite Armor, Hasten is not able to be put on Perma, and it barely negates any of its own Recharge when used with Granite Armor, to me this is where Sets come in - slot Sets in your Powers that give you Recharge Redux bonuses, and if your like me, you went on Mid's Hero Designer and actually tested out how many Sets with Recharge Redux Set Bonuses youd need along with normal Recharge Redux IOs to reach default non-enhanced Recharge of your powers WITHOUT hasten

for my 38 Stone/Stone Brute i had to Slot 3 sets among his powers, and the rest of his attacks i slotted a couple Recharge Redux IOs each and bang im back at normal pre-Granite Armor attack/recharge speed and all without requiriing Hasten

in short: there are certain situations with certain ATs and Powersets where Sets are a really good idea

Actually I believe it is possible to get perma-Hasten in Granite armor. It's absurdly expensive and requires pretty much totally gimping yourself in a lot of ways since practically every single power is focused on recharge bonuses, but it's possible.

Of course the more practical thing would be to try to get 50-60% recharge or so to counteract the Granite penalty, and then pile on all the runspeed boosts you can get.

At lvl 23, my Bots MM can six slot his pets with three of the lvl 26 Dam/Acc/End triples and two Dam/Acc doubles, giving him 90% Damage, 90% Accuracy and 50% Endurance out of five slots. With the sixth slot, I can throw in a Chance for Smashing Damage proc for more damage.

With SOs, the best I could do would be 99% in Dam & Acc or 99% Dam, 66% Acc & 33% End. The extra proc would never be an option.

Sounds like a winner to me! Especially since I tend to play a little slower on my alts and it's nice to set myself up like that and not have to worry about it again until I get near 50 and want to start considering a final build.

I have a few reasons to IO up a lowbie toon.

1) I'm in desperate need of +recovery, and the next patch doesn't seem to be coming until 2023
2) I happened to find a unique lowbie IO such as +stealth
3) I found the recipe, I found the parts, and why the heck not?
4) Boredom

In the early 20s, yeah, SOs are the way to go. But otherwise, IOs will always give better bonuses. They sell for garbage on the AH anyway (except for uniques).