Ninjitsu Proliferation to Scrappers/Brutes?

Any chances this is on the To Do list?

Ninjitsu is such a thematic and powerful set, I would love to roll my two Ninja Theme toons as scrappers/brutes but loosing blinding powder, smoke flash, caltrops and the wonderful Themed Poses are too much.

Any plans for this proliferation in the near term future?

Don't forget tanks.

But don't change the set at all except to reorder things so that hide becomes something like Energy Cloak or Cloak of Darkness and ends up as a fifth or sixth power.

Well it's a good bet that if the Devs do proliferate it to Scrappers they will replace Caltrops since Scrappers get Caltrops in Weapon Mastery and the general policy is that you shouldn't be able to get the same power in both a main set and your EPP.

My gut reaction is: not a chance.

The big power choice problems are smoke flash and blinding powder. The small power choice problems are caltrops and hide.

Unlike other Armor Sets that are shared across archtypes which largely have been modified to be Stalker sets, Ninjitsu was built from the ground up to be a stalker set. Ergo, it's Single Origin Performance is driven around higher level powers built to complement the stalker archtype. At high levels Ninjitsu is far more effective at the Stalker concepts of hit and run because of it's ability to shed aggro.

The smoke flash and blinding powder effects are direct contrasts to the scrapper and brute methods of managing damage, not aggro. These two powers would need to be replaced with something else in order to fit the scrapper / brute armor build mechanics.

Lucky is hardly similar to Hide at all. It's a passive defense power versus a toggle stealth power with some defense. Regardless, as said, a basic stealth power would be fine.

Blinding Powder would be perfectly fine for Scrappers and Tanks. Brutes would have some fury issues with it, but it'd be no worse than the already existing Oppressive Gloom and Cloak of Fear in Dark Armor.

Smoke Flash would be fine on Scrappers, who are not the designated aggro-magnets. They're survivable damage-dealers and occasionally back-up tanks. Tanks and Brutes would probably need a whole new power. Sure, they could keep it, but I don't see it helping them much at all.

Caltrops on Scrappers would need to be swapped. The sky's the limit since in proliferation the cottage rule doesn't apply. Perhaps some sort of sleep gas or something instead? Or if the devs were mean, they'd split the toggles and replace it with an AoE defense toggle.

I'd be far from saying Ninjitsu proliferation "just won't happen". Scrappers would probably see it first since it'd take less work (stealth power, replace caltorps) whereas Brutes would probably see it last. It'd be easier to do than Earth Assault, which, while literally a new set, was part of the last round of proliferation. Though if we go purely on a "how much work would it take" basis, we'll probably see Energy Aura and Regeneration moved around some first.

It's certainly possible to proliferate the set, though its not easy. je_saist has it right, there are several problematic powers that would have to be redone in order for it to work.

Hide is quite easily replaceable with a stealth-type examples include Cloak of Darkness and Energy Cloak. A simple toggle with 3.75% defense vs. all, stealth effect, and a simple name like Shadow Cloak could work.

Smoke Flash can also be replaced with a version of Smoke Grenade. That would change it to a - to-hit buff, - perception power.

That would leave two other powers to be replaced. Blinding Powder and Caltrops.
Blinding Flash already provides a - to-hit buff, - perception debuff. If Smoke Flash were replaced with Smoke Grenade, that would basically have two powers that did the same thing.

Blinding Powder could be remade in a quite simple fashion, though I'm not too certain that it would be effective for Tanks or Brutes. It could be changed to Flash Powder, remove the debuff and make it a sleep power with a chance of confusion. At best it could be used as an alpha-strike mitigation. Like I said, its simple, has possible uses, but its probably not best for the other melee ATs.

That leaves Caltrops. Since its available in the APPs, and can be such a wonderful utility, its extremely doubtful that it would be made available twice on the same character. Which by design is almost always avoided. Since there is no power that works in any similar fashion that could be altered to work within this power set, a new power would need to be created.

The one other issue with proliferating this set is that none of the current powers are suitable for a taunt-aura which every Tanker has. It's conceivable that the replacement power for Caltrops could indeed be changed to a toggle with a taunt aura. Some other effect would need to be added to the power as well. Which in turn would also require much testing to determine if this new version of the set performs within acceptable parameters.

I don't think Ninjitsu is very likely to get proliferated anytime soon, if ever. It's basically super reflexes with the auto powers taken out and replaced by a heal and a few utility powers, all with making it good for a Stalker in mind. Before it could be proliferated, I would think they would want to change the utility powers to something that fits non-Stalkers better. But if you take out the utility powers... you pretty much have super reflexes plus a heal.

I think pretty much all the other armors are more likely to get proliferated. Just my opinion, though. I thought for sure that the last buff/debuff set that Defenders would get would be Traps, and I was very wrong.

I think it would be fine to proliferate as long as certain Stalker specific powers were altered or replaced.

Ninja Reflexes -boosted slightly to make up for loss of Hide's defense

Danger Sense -^same

Kuji-in Rin -add some defense debuff protection

Counter Attack -puts you into a stance where you automatically dodge and deal a high damage counter attack to the first enemy that tries to attack you with a melee attack. In this stance if you move or use another power you break the effect but it doesn't go into cool down mode. Very much like AS. This would be great for fighting really tough enemies and using it to dodge their big hitters. It's a great way to add to your survivability but probably at the cost of sustained DPS in exchange for a powerful damage spike and the ability to control the battle.

Kuji-in Sha

Smoke Flash -Change it to a pbaoe "choking cloud" type effect only less powerful. Leaves enemies choking for a few seconds.

Blinding Powder -Maybe just make it a -to hit/perception/range debuff?

Ninja Agility - +20% recharge

Kuji-in Retsu -This can stay the same

On paper it's got... good defense, great heal, pbaoe control, to-hit debuff, inherent recharge boost, and the ability to automatically dodge attacks. Sounds pretty fun! (and OP )

I'll just keep waiting until I can make my SS/Nin Scrapper.

i have to admit i don't always understand why it's bad to have access to powers like Caltrops twice. i have some caltrop users who can already stack it through high levels of recharge, and if i recall correctly the -runspeed can be easily capped with a single application of slotted caltrops.

Also, most of my VEATs have taken Assault and Maneuvers twice. So they definitely get to take pool powers that duplicate powers in their secondary.

Beyond it being general design policy, is there a game-mechanical reason that taking Caltrops twice is more "broken" than taking Assault twice?

This should have been one of the first things to go to scrappers.. Brutes. not so much... still waiting for a Broadsword/Shield Brute... ahem ahem..

I'd like to work a trade with Scrappers. We'll give you Ninjitsu if you give us your melee damage modifier. k? thx!

All I'll say is if they are going to proliferate Ninjitsu, they better not make it better than what Stalker gets in Energy Aura, REPLUSE. Freaking useless, costly toggle.

I feel I should point out that the VEAT Leadership isn't the same as Pool Leadership. Different modifiers and VEATs don't get Vengeance. It's also no different than a Tank/Brute getting Taunt and Provoke, a Scrapper getting Confront and Challenge, Dark Armor/Energy Aura taking it's stealth power and Stealth, Empathy/Sonic/Pain Dom/Thermal taking mez protection and Stimulant, Regeneration/Willpower getting Fast Healing/Quick Recovery and Fitness, etc. Scrappers having two copies of Caltrops would be like Controllers, until recently, getting a second PFF in Mace Mastery if they had a FF secondary or Kheldians being able to double up on travels if they were allowed to take the pools.

If you want to see why double caltrops is bad go find some Knives of Artemis and don't attack them until they throw down the Caltrops.

Now picture them using the ranged attacks they have exclusively(granted the Scrapper is likely to only have 2 possibly 3 or 4 counting Vet Rewards and ignoring Spines,Claws and Kin) still don't see the problem?

Ok now imagine that same scenario in PvP(which I feel is valid considering it was considered in the creation of Ninjitsu to begin with.)

That's why 2 Caltrops would be bad in a nutshell