Incarnates and your character's backstories.
By
Amerikatt,
Posted on: 2010-11-10 02:10 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
They haven't told us but I'm hoping going through the new mender to open the slot allows me to either tap into alternate versions of myself or past version of myself and augment my here and now self with their power.
And if that not the cannon way we get the Incarante power that's the way I'm gonna roleplay it working in my head.
You are right in that we haven't been told. I hope we're not locked in some "Destined One" storyline with the Incarnate arcs that basically re-writes our backstories and changes our origin. Ramiel did speak about our "inner incarnates," so it seems like it won't be a new origin but a sort of next stage of evolution. We're still who we were before, we're just... Sort of godlike.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The origin of your *primary* powers doesn't change. These just add to them. Your Natural wouldn't cease being Natural if he hopped in a car, would he?
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Originally Posted by Kidou
Well... how exactly does this affect our character's backstories?
A natural character gaining Incarnate powers wouldn't be a 'Natural' anymore would he? |
Well, in the case of my natural origin toons, they're just taking their training from their original up to eleven to OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Fortunately, my main is Magic origin, which is easily amendable for just about anything, and it's perfectly in character for her to pursue new avenues of limitless power.
I don't really play any "pure Natural" type concepts, so I can accept pretty much any of my 50s "unlocking new potential" within themselves that allows them to do crazy stuff.
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I suspect Incarnates may come with some story assumptions appended, but I'd say they'll get treated like Patron powerpools do now - that is to say, people will take the powers but pretend to not take the narrative with it. There are plenty of people who took Scirocco's red lightning because they wanted red lightning and simply write it off as an extension of their own Electrical Melee powers as created by arc reactors, rather than as the magic of the Mu. Incarnates will be no different.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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When I designed Plasma Fury (Fire/Fire Blaster), I borrowed from Superman's lore: he draws his power from the sun. He stores the power for extended periods of time and then rechannels it as plasma that he can control and ignite at will.
As he unlocks his incarnate abilities, he'll realize he is a living sun, descended from an entire race of them. Which, of course, will open up entire roleplaying opportunities for him. Where are the others of his kind? How did he get to Earth? Why is he there?
This all depends, of course, on whether or not Incarnate Abilities work as I think (and hope) they will.
My characters will likely gain power in their own way. Rushmore will be even further empowered by the Spirit of America, Cindersnap's going to learn from his future self some martial arts techniques that allow him to harness his chi to bolster his mutation-given abilities so he can teach others in his team/teach his past self when he becomes his future self (time loop, hooo!) and my main is just going to add new tech to her battlesuit.
There's no reason why it should alter existing back stories. Given that it's only for high level content it can't somehow retro-fit your origin. It's more like an augmentation of your existing powers than changing anything in the basic structure.
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"Does this Incarnate power make my backstory look big?"
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Originally Posted by Kidou
Well... how exactly does this affect our character's backstories?
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I know Alpha for one is just going to be plugging in some obscenely powerful upgrades 
And I know exactly what the Judgement Power is gonna be; Reason, his pet orbital railcannon.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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This.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I suspect Incarnates may come with some story assumptions appended, but I'd say they'll get treated like Patron powerpools do now - that is to say, people will take the powers but pretend to not take the narrative with it. There are plenty of people who took Scirocco's red lightning because they wanted red lightning and simply write it off as an extension of their own Electrical Melee powers as created by arc reactors, rather than as the magic of the Mu. Incarnates will be no different.
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I have never let the backstory of the game affect the backstories of my characters. Sometimes I choose to incorporate more of the elements of the people or places in the Rogue Isles or Paragon City, but other times I "explain" my characters without any regard to what the game's narrative is.
As far as this Incarnate thing goes I'll probably apply it to the evolving backstories of some of my characters, but for other characters I probably won't bother to rationalize it at all. Bottomline do whatever you feel like doing. Don't let this new Incarnate system make you feel like you are "forced" to have to explain it.
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No, but if someone gave him a magical amulet which bonded to his skin and suddenly made him 10x stronger and 5x faster, then he's now a Magical dude because you've changed his essence.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
The origin of your *primary* powers doesn't change. These just add to them. Your Natural wouldn't cease being Natural if he hopped in a car, would he?
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That's sort of how I read the Incarnate stuff. It's just like the much-hated Origin of Power nonsense (see other thread) that I'm either going to have to completely ignore because it violates *my* character concepts, or else I'm going to have completely redefine what terms such as "Technological" and "Natural" mean in regards to Primal Earth versus Our Earth. (Which might not be too difficult a stretch. My character Air Force uses the flying star symbol as his chest emblem. As someone pointed out, in Our World that's the emblem for a sergeant, but I choose to assign it Captain status on Primal Earth because Air Force is a Captain.)
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If I need to explain for my main... Elizabeth Bathory already gain her witchcraft and a lot of her dark powers from the god/demons the N'Garai. A deal made her a vampire... a conduct gives her direct access.
Another deal will make her an incarnate of their pitchblack essence... Something to deal with might be needed. And as she already lost her soul, a nice mass murder and blood sacrifice can be arranged.
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You're talking about me and you know it. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I suspect Incarnates may come with some story assumptions appended, but I'd say they'll get treated like Patron powerpools do now - that is to say, people will take the powers but pretend to not take the narrative with it. There are plenty of people who took Scirocco's red lightning because they wanted red lightning and simply write it off as an extension of their own Electrical Melee powers as created by arc reactors, rather than as the magic of the Mu. Incarnates will be no different.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Yeah, I dislike those kinds of descriptions. I took the Mu Mastery powers for my time-traveling cyborg Brute because the red lightning powers matched his primary/secondary powers. I ignored the description entirely because Scirocco's "abilities of an ancient race" stuff has zero bearing on my guy. He generates electricity and that electricity is red, end of story.
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I am, actually |
Originally Posted by Ironik
You're talking about me and you know it.
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I have a sort of random access memory which will feed me specific concepts on demand, but will rarely tell me when I learned them or who came up with them. I knew someone said that at some point and, seeing your quote now, I remember what I was referencing But this is general practice for a lot of people, as far as I've seen. I know I took Black Scorpion's Mace Blast powers for my alien dude and just wrote them off as alien gadgets. If Ghost Widow's darkness wasn't pastel-coloured, I'd use that as "just more darkness," as well.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I certainly won't let it constrain me. (See above post.) It's just somewhat irksome that I even have to jump through those mental hoops in order to rationalize my characters.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
As far as this Incarnate thing goes I'll probably apply it to the evolving backstories of some of my characters, but for other characters I probably won't bother to rationalize it at all. Bottomline do whatever you feel like doing. Don't let this new Incarnate system make you feel like you are "forced" to have to explain it.
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For some characters who are directly tied into the game's lore, the Incarnate system and Origin of Power stuff is fine. They are characters designed from the ground up to be part of this universe. It's the other ones who I have to struggle with, even slightly, and it's annoying since many of these characters existed LONG before any of this other nonsense was added to the game. I'm not trying to say I hate Origin of Power as much as I hate Suppression, because it only affects me every so often when I run a character through Winkley's arc and Suppression hits me every 3 minutes of gameplay, but it is fairly annoying for a writerly guy like me.
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I already have to rationalize my level 50 natural MA scrapper regularly punching out ghosts, aliens in power armor, and giant robots. Incarnate abilities seem like a logical progression.
Come to think of it, achieving the "Master of Olympus" badge for beating down a Kronos Titan might be an occasion for a ret-con :P
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har!
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Originally Posted by flarstux
"does this incarnate power make my backstory look big?"
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I was just noodging ya. (I just made that word up this second.) I do like how you added the "arc reactors" detail. Nice touch. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I am, actually
I have a sort of random access memory which will feed me specific concepts on demand, but will rarely tell me when I learned them or who came up with them. I knew someone said that at some point and, seeing your quote now, I remember what I was referencing But this is general practice for a lot of people, as far as I've seen. I know I took Black Scorpion's Mace Blast powers for my alien dude and just wrote them off as alien gadgets. If Ghost Widow's darkness wasn't pastel-coloured, I'd use that as "just more darkness," as well. |
Mu Mastery vet power is another one of those where I disregard the description. For instance, my dual blades natural guy is just a really good puncher because he's extremely fit, that's all. No netherworld channeling needed. I'm not sure how the Incarnate system is going to relate to him without knowing the details, but I suspect I'll just be ignoring said details and treating those abilities as if he's just at the top of his game and really pulling out all his tricks during this particular battle.
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Are those two differences of degree or differences of kind for you? To me it's the latter. My MA guy (Ironik) can punch ghosts because on Primal Earth they are physical beings made up of ectoplasm who have the ability to become noncorporeal at times. They become vulnerable to physical attack when they want to affect the rest of the world and he's just learned *when* to hit them. (Ditto for my gunner, Tommi Gunn.) As for armored aliens and robots, it's not a question of *when*, it's a question of *where*. I just assume Ironik hits the armor in the weak spots, and kicks out wires on the robots, thus disabling them.|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
I already have to rationalize my level 50 MA scrapper regularly punching out ghosts, aliens in power armor, and giant robots. Incarnate abilities seem like a logical progression.
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Incarnate powers are a bit tougher for me to rationalize because they affect the very nature of some of my characters. Why should Tommi Gunn, my Natural gunner, have to change the core of her origin in order to accommodate the Well of Furies magic stuff? I'm pretty much just going to have to ignore it rather than somehow incorporate it, I think.
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Gaining Incarnate status should have absolutely no bearing on the backstories of our characters. Simply consider it as source material which we can then adapt to fit our own vision of a particular character.
For instance, Amerikatt (the only one of my four Level 50s who will be gaining Incarnate status) is classified as a 'Natural' origin, even though her backstory shows her to be more of a 'Mutant' or even 'Science' origin.
Furthermore -- as has been hinted at in-game and in forum RP -- she has been the servant of a Divinity, a fact I have known since long before she ever emerged from the Character Creator! As a gift from 'The Great Mother', Amerikatt's abilities will be enhanced, essentially adding a 'Magic' aspect to the character, yet not actually changing the fact that she is a 'Natural' creature.
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Dude, you make my head hurt.
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Originally Posted by Amerikatt
Gaining Incarnate status should have absolutely no bearing on the backstories of our characters. Simply consider it as source material which we can then adapt to fit our own vision of a particular character.
For instance, Amerikatt (the only one of my four Level 50s who will be gaining Incarnate status) is classified as a 'Natural' origin, even though her backstory shows her to be more of a 'Mutant' or even 'Science' origin. Furthermore -- as has been hinted at in-game and in forum RP -- she has been the servant of a Divinity, a fact I have known since long before she ever emerged from the Character Creator! As a gift from 'The Great Mother', Amerikatt's abilities will be enhanced, essentially adding a 'Magic' aspect to the character, yet not actually changing the fact that she is a 'Natural' creature. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Let me tell you a story ...!|
Originally Posted by Ironik
Why should Tommi Gunn, my Natural gunner, have to change the core of her origin in order to accommodate the Well of Furies magic stuff?
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"Once upon a time, a Momcat, heavy with kitten, sought refuge from torrential rains by hiding in a cave. Safe within the cave, the Momcat delivered a single kitten. As the kitten grew, she frolicked within the cave, playing farther and farther from her mother's presence. One day, she ventured most deeply into the cave, where she found a fountain. Finding herself thirsty, the kitten lapped up some of the water and found herself energized. It was at that very moment that the cave shook and there was a loud explosion in the direction of where she and her mother were staying. Running in that direction, the kitten found a large rockpile and heard the weakening cries of her mother. Working as quickly as she could (with newly-found speed), the kitten dug her mother out from beneath the rockpile. But it was too late. The berieved kitten cried mightly and swore a solemn oath that she would strive hard to see that no one else suffered as she was suffering. Thus was born ... Amerikatt! |
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Well... how exactly does this affect our character's backstories?
A natural character gaining Incarnate powers wouldn't be a 'Natural' anymore would he? Or are the powers that the Well of Furies is giving a small fraction of what it gave Recluse and Statesman?