2 billion per enhancer

From the mouth of babes ....

Thank you for your offer of assistance. For this particular build I do not need help. There is a frankenbuild bouncing around my head that I will be begging for help with once I am done with this guy. But this guy is very simple. Recharge, and recharge. I absolutely know that it is a law of diminishing returns. However, except for this Brute, only Doms could possibly benefit from recharge more. I am not going to present my theories for this again, I know many consider thm wrong, the way I am doing it wrong, whatever. I am chasing the dragon with this build, and whether or not i catch the beast I will not go off the hunt.

So, you ares aying that by never getting this makes people play more? Or, get them once in a great while? Which brings me to that question everyone that disagrees with me seems unwilling to answer. How long? How long do you think it is appropriate to take to completely purple/PvP I/O one character, at the expense of all others? If you were in a marketing strategy sesson for the game, what figure would you throw out as to a good time range, and hy do you believe this wold help you get/retain customers?

I start a new character, soloing every mission/every badge. I run the other at 50 to continue earning merits, A merits, doing task forces, raids, etc. But I definitely start the new guy and build that story. Personally, I love new characters. Character generation is one of the reasos I play this game. (Specifically not to market, as mst are probably aware) I draw. I paint. Using the character generation tool allows me to explore 3D representations of many possible characters. True eye candy, and I am very happy with it. Anything could be better, but "City of"s character generation tools are top shelf.

there is no answer for it. it is however long it takes. it goes by person, not a collective whole. stop your whining and move on already. THE GAME IS NOT BALANCED AROUND IO'S. and again, if you want to io out your toon, then do the work for it. everyone else does, why do you feel that you shouldn't have to?

Wow, within a few short sentences yougo from it is demonstrably able to be done to you are not even sure that it should be practically possible. And everyone you meet? I have never, ever said everyone in the cities should have this. At the rate of one character per year kitted out in this fashion people who play 3 years would have 3, and all their alts would be pretty much what we see now.

Could you be any more disingenuous?

You have gotten answers, they don't make you FEEL better, so they do not exist?

I can get my Alzheimer ridden mother to comprehend things better.

You sir are truly a piece of work.

You absolutely ignored what I was responding to, which was someones suggestion not to use the market at all. This forum is not a good place for this discussion I am finding. Someone will say if you dont like it, never use the market. I will explain I have to use the market. Ridicule ensues. There are alternate ways to get the stuff. I post the math on the alternate ways. I am told that is stupid, use the market. I tell people the market is rigged to favor farmers and marketeers. I am told you do not ned to use the market. I will explain I have to use the market. Ridicule ensues. There are alternate ways to get the stuff. I post the math on the alternate ways. I am told that is stupid, use the market. I tell people the market is rigged to favor farmers and marketeers. I am told you do not ned to use the market. I will explain I have to use the market. Ridicule ensues. There are alternate ways to get the stuff. I post the math on the alternate ways. I am told that is stupid, use the market. I tell people the market is rigged to favor farmers and marketeers. I am told you do not ned to use the market.

OK, I'll answer it.

More than 5 years. That's how long I've been playing my absolute favorite characters without getting them fully enhanced with every one of the IO sets and procs that I would like to have. I have one level 50 character I'm still playing often that has never, ever gotten a purple drop. With just about 2 years playing at level 50, he's never gotten a purple drop. But I still play him and hope to get those drops when I play him. He's even done just a little bit of PvP play, and never gotten a PvP drop. So far, I don't have a single whine I can make about not getting those drops, because he's still fun to play with just common IOs and a handful of IO procs that I've earned.

RagManX

your understandings of the market are completely false. anyone can use the market and gain from it. you are just failing to see this because no one is jumping on your little red wagon. like i said earlier, post your build and let others try to help you achieve what you want without having to spend a bunch of infl. if not, you are just like another poster on these boards who absolutely refuses to listen to logic and thinks his way is the best.

nether, you are one of my favorites, I must say. Consistently insulting, with so little content in your words it is the nutritional equivalent of a happy meal. However, since you offer up this gem of an opinion instead of just hurling insults let me say how wrong you are. Just plain wrong. At 50 I continue to run content/badges/TF/Hami raids/Tip/Pug groups/holiday stuff. Also, once principally done with one character (as I said, hopefully in bout a year) I would start another character. My 50 would still be working, because I have a couple Task Force channels I monitor. One in articular has some of the best teams I have found, and it is always a pleasure to do a ***** Task Force. i would jump back onto my 50 and team with them quite regular, no matter how "finished" that character was.

And those 3 characters for that one person times how many tens of thousands of people who are subscribed to the game? With that many characters fully built with ultra rares would lead to you seeing at least one of them probably most of the time you play in the max-level zones.

RagManX

If I didn't already have such an awesome quote from another in these forums set as my .sig, I would totally use that. I'm hopeful someone else will memorialize this great comment.

RagManX

Okay, lets pretend you were not trying to be insulting. You are truly astonished. Okay. So, from what yo wrote, ow was I supposed to know fully I/O'd meantpurples and PvP I/Os. Fully I/O'd could mean a ton of 200,000 enhancers slammed onto the build. (Which is actually a cheap and effective way to be stronger than SO. I said it first) I read your post, I just did not understand that your friends fully I/O'd stone tanker was fully I/O'd with the best. In less than 6 months, very very nice.

Would our current group of marketeers consider this a possibility? Call it 5 purple sets (only 5 per, for efficiency), so 25 purples, and lets say 15 PvP I/Os, a couple procs, a global or 3, and never forget the 5 LOTG 7.5%, this stoner will need them. Do that in 6 months on the market and have 2 billion change left over. Is this possible?

Did it ever cross your mind that others consider your theories wrong because, well, they could be wrong?

I could add a remark about how smart it is to "chase a dragon" if chasing it takes all your funds and catching the dragon isn't the best thing you can catch with those funds, but I won't bother. Oh wait, I think I just did that.

So you are saying that everyone getting them makes people play more? Or even getting them faster than now? Which brings me to that question you seem to be unwilling to answer. Why can't you do it with the current market setup when others can? Why do you think it is not approppriate that completely pimping out one toon with purples/PvP IOs takes some effort? If you are the market/newbie guru, why are the figures you constantly keep posting (250mil for purples, 500mil for PvP IOs) a good price and why do you believe this would help you get/retain customers when it has demonstrably been shown that many customers wouldnt like this change?

See what I did there? On a more serious note, I think it should take long. I'm not sure how long, but I've been playing the game for over 5 years and my main is still far from finished even though I've poured multiple billions in the build (purples, PvP IOs, you name it). So I guess longer than 5 years is my answer.

I'm not sure what you are seeing here, because your post doesn't mirror my understanding of seebs' post at all. I'll try to keep it short. He says completely IOing characters happens, but isn't sure if we should be able to do it.

Not directly, no, but a short search (2 minutes) with only one keyword provides these results which imply it quite strongly.

Why do you still go on?

It is possible. Fury_Flechette had a thread here where they made two billion in one week starting from scratch with a non-farmer character. 6 months is half a year so 26 weeks. At that rate it's 52 billion in 6 months.

The better question than is it possible would be "is it smart" or "is that the best build". More often than not going for the best build doesn't mean just tossing in the most expensive items. Realizing that should reduce the stress of not being able to get the best single items.

it is very possible. in fact i know people who have done this in a matter of days. you seem to forget(or don't know) that infl has been around a lot longer then the markets. this means that people had mounds of it floating around. use the market and you now have 3-4 timews the mounds. keep playing and selling and you have 10-20 times the mounds. so, since i9, it is very possible to kit out your favorite toon in just days.

you to can have these mounds, all you need to do is sell what you don't need/aren't using for any toons and make cash. list it for 10 infl and see what happens. you'll make millions on top of millions on top of millions doing this. and don't worry if you wanted that drop for another toon, you can get it back by running missions, turning in tickets, merits and a-merits. it's a viscious cycle i know, but one that works for everyone doing it.

Wow, worth quoting twice. Freaking gold mine here. Firstly, I think most of us are realizing I read all the posts. For those that pay attention I am actually having a lively discussion with two or three individuals. I try to ridicule very little, but I am sarcastic to the core, no apologies offered or expected. Yes, if someone just post insults I will ignore that post, onion rings, but I still read it. Just no reason to respond.

More importantly, in you last graph, you believe someone should get a fully purp'd and PvP I/O'd toon in less than a month? Are you sure? Okay, I am going to assume you have been reading the discussion, a courtesy you did not afford me. You believe that someone should roll a character and less than a month later be 50, and be fully kitted out with purp's and PvP I/Os, procs, globals, etc.

Okay, my fastest 50 ever was a crab. It took me 5 days. This was when VEATs 1st came out, and the server was infested with crabs. The fastest guy beat me by like 3 days. If I grind through content, making sure I at least get banks for badges, it still takes me about 2 1/2 weeks to 50 a character I am rushing. If I am actually running the guy, especially all content, it takes me months.

So, back to our story though. Lets say your hypothetical one month guy leveled in regular play to 50 in 5 days. i have done that on PUGs, it can be done. (Or could a couple years ago) So in 25 days he manages to Purp/PvP I/O/Proc/Global evey bit of his build? And you believe this is right? Because he is a "well informed player"

Let me tell you what I think. I think anything over one year of diligent effort is too long to go without having your character tricked out the way you want, even if that is some of the rarest stuff available. If you have played that character a year, there is a good chance you might play it a little longer. You might be invested, even if it is "done"

Also, i believe that anyone that can accomplish this in a few months, or ONE month, is obviously gaming the system. He is playing (or not playing) in a manner that brings nothing to the game. He is a farmer, or a marketeer. He will never play that 50, not with other people. He either sits in his AE farm all night, or stands at the market all night. Either way, he is not out on PUG groups, or doing task forces. Because if you are making the kind of money he is in game that would be stupid. Like asking 50s to keep doing Kalidas arc with new tons. It aint gonna happen too many times. Nope, that player is going to sit in his AE farm, or sit on the market, and that is it.

What i am talking about is having a vibrant gaming environment wherein the players doing the most content, the most teaming with others, the most Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game activities, are rewarded at higher rates than farmers and marketeers.

i fell out of my chair laughing at this. you are so full of wrong it is ridiculously funny. you do not have to be a marketeer or farmer to gain from the market. just sell your drops. and who cares how he got to 50? as logn as he plays that toon, whether by himself or on teams, he is having fun. which is what the game is meant for.

It is a marketing strategy. Pure and simple. The almighty Dolla. Please, step outside the game for just a second. I have a product. A video game I want to sell you. You have many choices. You can buy console games, or you can get into longer character building and team dynamics thru an MMORPG. So, lets say you chose an MMORPG. Lets say you come to my window first, so I have first crack at the customer. I even give him a free trial period. Clever fellow, he tries this. For free. Once in game, he enjoys it. He also asks questions of some 50s. Hey, how do you get the good treasure. Hey, I looked at Paragon Wiki, these special enhancers, how you get them? Hey, I wentto the boards, someone said download mids to look at builds. I got a top end one (like I usually do on every console game I run, and have been socialized to expect), so how do I go about getting a good build like that here. Well, a few people tell him, you really have a couple choices, you can work a few years through normal content, and maybe/maybe not get that stuff. Or.... You could sit and farm for months on end doing no other content, and probably get pretty close. Or..... You could learn how to manipulate the market. You see, to earn money in this game,doing content is for chumps, what we are selling you is City of Wall Street. Go ahead, stand by that kiosk there and videogame your little heart out. Or.....just do not try to get that stuff. Its in the game, but its not right for you. You are not willing to "earn it" But, the fellow says, I am a pretty good videogamer, playing for years, I love videogames. Oh they say, than stand by that Kiosk, and play the game. If you market like crazy, thats where the rewards are. But, he says, cant i just run content for that stuff. Werent you listening, they say? Everybody knows it would take years that way. The Developers dont reward players of content with the best treasure. o, that gos to farmers, and especially marketeers. They are te ones who get all the stuff. Content playing is for people who actually just need SOs, stick with that. Yeah, and at the end of the trial period..... no sale.

For me, to stop the obvious snarky comment, I enjoy character build out, especially the 3D generation screen. that is primarily why I still subscribe. However, from a pure video game that rewards commensurate with effort, this game is severly tilted to farmers and marketeers. And guess what? That is not what most trial ccount users are looking for. They are looking for a super powered video game. they want toys, bells, whistles, and they are not looking to play city of grind one room, or city of wall street.

My average for this kind of activity is probably on the order of 4-6 months per character, including 1-2 months of meticulously playing them from 1-50. This time is not all exclusively spent on that character. There is a period of near exclusivity as I level the character up, but as I get closer to my target build, I diversify more again, going back to playing other characters more.

I have what I believe to be an unorthodox level of commitment to maxing out contact bars which requires me to solo during character leveling and/or turn off XP for parts of it. This means that I almost certainly take (significantly) longer to level than most people. (Edit: than most people with my number of hours played and target levels of min/max performance.) I also end up with more merits than most (but probably not significantly more in the big picture).

When I get a character to 50, I tend to continue to play them heavily for a couple of months at the expense of spending time on other characters. During this time I usually focus on earning money and merits which I use to obtain any missing things I need for them. I buy in a strategic bootstrapping method, by which I mean I buy first the cheapest things that will best increase their base performance, as well as the most expensive items I can obtain in the shortest timeframe.

In practice, this usually means I outfit them as follows.

• During the leveling process, I outfit them with accuracy TOs, then some DOs, then common IOs
• I use existing stock or other characters to "twink" them usually only to the extent of buying expensive "singles" that will improve low-level performance, such as Miracles, Knockback IOs, Kismets, and sometimes LotGs. I try to release low-level "proc-like" IOs from high-level characters during respecs so they can be re-gifted to low-level characters, but if I have none free I will use merits to create one from scratch.
• As the character approaches appropriate levels for sets, I start slotting any I have obtained for the character. For example, in the 40s I would have Touch of Death sets slotted.
• I pay attention to what my build would do when exemplared, but I do not choose sets at lower-than-max levels for this purpose. Instead, I choose only "special" IOs, like LotGs and KB protection IOs with this in mind. This gives me good exemplar performance with ease of acquisition for (near) full sets, since most set pieces are produced at or near their max levels.

Other than the twinking I do with Miracles and the like, I do not specifically use my other characters to buy most of the stuff for my new characters. I prefer to use each character to outfit itself. This is, again, significantly time inefficient by my own choosing. I just like to play the characters like they got their full powers mostly on their own. This also means that each of my characters has large pools of cash on hand that they do not spend on one another. This was, for example, how I was able to readily afford a PvPO - by the time I was "done" focusing on the character that I ended up wanting a PvPO for, she had 2.3 billion inf all to herself.

At times, when a build is nearly complete, I will have a fully functioning build that has almost all the sets I planned but is one or two short. Depending on what those sets do, I may defer 100% completion beyond the time frame given at the top of this post. I usually have dual motivations in this. If this happens, it's usually because the last few pieces in the build are very expensive, and I need more time to obtain them. However, hearkening back to comments in this thread about the joy being in the journey and not the destination, I also like having a reason to keep coming back to the character. If I've got them to say, 90% or 95% of where I want them, and have built up my character with the best cost/performance components first, then I have an extremely effective character already, and playing them to get that last 5-10% of their build and performance will be lots of fun to me. I don't begrudge the system giving me a reason to play them.

Remember, there are at least thee things I could do to shorten this cycle. I could level faster by being less anal retentive about completing content. I could either set up forward-planning market activites on my active character to earn money for future purchases. (Notice there was no mention of marketeering in my write up. I could also or instead market stuff on other characters who I am not playing.) I could also give myself money from other characters who are, essentially, needlessly wealthy. So my 4-6 month timeframe could probably be reduced to more like 2-4 months by someone who focused more on efficiency than on the sense of self-development that I invest in my characters.

Funny, that's EXACTLY what they get!