Female kittens/cats as viable Player Character models, please?
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2010-11-07 07:28 in Suggestions and Ideas
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Please don't throw around accusations like they're going out of style. I'm not trolling you. I'm picking the least bad of two possible options - either this thread is a joke and you're just having a spot of fun, or you're seriously serious and sadly deluded that this has even the inkling of a chance to happen. It doesn't. It never has, and it never will. Fact.|
Originally Posted by Amerikatt
No joke, Sam. Please don't troll me. You don't want a cat model, that's fine. I do, and I will continue to hold out hope -- no matter how long it takes nor how naive my request may sound to certain factions of the community!
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And I'm not saying this because I don't like your request. I do. But I realise it is technically and mechanically impossible to make, and even if it were would be so, so horribly not worth the price of investment that you won't get any sane developer to even look at it. It's like asking to add space ship combat to the game, or asking for the game to be remade in the Unreal 3 engine, or asking for a turn-based conquest mode to be added. It's so far and so completely out of scope with any precedent that has even been hinted at as to be unthinkable.
The most you're ever likely to get is an AT with a transformation into such a thing, but then it won't be YOUR character, unless you choose to remake. You have a very, very, VERY slim chance of getting a quadruped transformation ala Walk, but this is guaranteed to disable all of your powers, so you won't be doing any flying around.
David basically dismissed any notion of adding new models out of hand and beyond argument, and that was when we were suggesting HUMANOID models. You WILL NOT get a non-humanoid model to make characters into. Not in this game, not at this stage of development. You are free to keep requesting it and keep hoping, but be realistic about your prospects. And please, don't insult my intelligence for being realistic.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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And, yeah, pretty much this. Every game faces limitations in some place at some point. There hasn't been a game made that has been completely and entirely unlimited, and I'm counting pen and paper games in there, as well.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I might want to create Cthuhu in this game, or a giant sea-serpent, but I recognize that its based around an anthromorphic body model and that is they way we roll here. Everything has limitations, and that is a limitation of this game as EVERY OTHER game has its own limitations.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The OP has confirmed that the thread is completely serious, and that she wants the character illustrated in her signature to be possible within CoH, exactly as depicted.|
Originally Posted by Shadowclone
Am I the only one who saw this as a lighthearted, joking more than serious thread?
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To which I respond, some concepts are simply not possible, practical, and/or feasible within the technical framework of this game, and should be realized in other media outside of it (e.g., illustrations and writing).
The OP wants a flying cat for a hero(ine). Not a humanoid hybrid, not a large feline like a tiger or lion, but a small domestic cat.
Possible in comics, and in fiction. Not possible here.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
If I *have* to be this silly anthropomorphized feline hybrid thing, can I at least get the height slider lowered to 1', please? Being a 4' tall cat makes me *quite* self-conscious and breaks my immersion!
Surely, extending the scope of the height slider is within the parameters of the CoH engine ... right?
AMERIKATT: Star of Stage, Screen, and Saturday morning cartoons! (Art by Psygon and ChristopherRobin)
"(Katt-Girl) obviously reads a lot of encyclopedias" -- Kiken
Dark_Respite's video -- Avatar: COH Style!
I Support Nerd Flirting and Even More Nerd Flirting!
The first issue that comes to mind is that being that small would have consequences for targeting in PvP. (As if anyone PvPs in this game anymore.) So, probably not.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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I love cats, I just find this one irritating.|
Originally Posted by 2short2care
By the response of my little request I can tell who all the cat haters are.
Go get em Amerikatt. |
The reasons why this will never happen have been explained. There's no reason for another thread about it. There's no reason for more discussion of it. Thus, this thread has no value, and is spam.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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As difficult as it may be for people to wrap their brains around this fact, there *are* actually people (like myself) who do not PvP and do not see why every little thing in this game has to be applied with PvPers in mind! By catering to PvPers, the PvE environment has been corrupted!|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
The first issue that comes to mind is that being that small would have consequences for targeting in PvP. (As if anyone PvPs in this game anymore.) So, probably not.
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Here, I offer a compromise which effects only one system in the CoH engine and someone has to QQ about how it *might* effect PvPers who -- by the poster's own admission -- haved diminished in numbers.
Allowing the Height Slider to go down to 1' tall will allow me to reset AK's height at 1', 1.5', or even 2', which are all within the normal sizing for cats.
AMERIKATT: Star of Stage, Screen, and Saturday morning cartoons! (Art by Psygon and ChristopherRobin)
"(Katt-Girl) obviously reads a lot of encyclopedias" -- Kiken
Dark_Respite's video -- Avatar: COH Style!
I Support Nerd Flirting and Even More Nerd Flirting!
I'm not at all a PvPer either. I'm just pointing out what I've been told on several occasions when I've had to swallow nerfs to PvE gameplay that were mostly or entirely the result of PvP issues. (I remember when Phase Shift was a power worth taking, for example... years and years ago.)
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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Exactly! The PvPers QQ about all sorts of minutae instead of learning to play their classes better. They ruin the PvE experience and could actually throw several monkey wrenches into having the Height Slider lowered to 1' because (whether it's true or not) they *feel* as though *someone* *might* create a character of non-standard height who would challenge them to actually learn how to play properly!
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Originally Posted by Megajoule
I'm not at all a PvPer either. I'm just pointing out what I've been told on several occasions when I've had to swallow nerfs to PvE gameplay that were mostly or entirely the result of PvP issues. (I remember when Phase Shift was a power worth taking, for example... years and years ago.)
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AMERIKATT: Star of Stage, Screen, and Saturday morning cartoons! (Art by Psygon and ChristopherRobin)
"(Katt-Girl) obviously reads a lot of encyclopedias" -- Kiken
Dark_Respite's video -- Avatar: COH Style!
I Support Nerd Flirting and Even More Nerd Flirting!
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Because in this case, changes to PvE would affect PvP. Just because you don't mind that, doesn't make it any less the case. Allowing for very small characters could very well affect the ability of mobs to target them, as well. Also the fact that I think that models that small would need to basically have the costumes redone for them, unless the current costumes would actually scale down to that height.
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Originally Posted by Amerikatt
As difficult as it may be for people to wrap their brains around this fact, there *are* actually people (like myself) who do not PvP and do not see why every little thing in this game has to be applied with PvPers in mind! By catering to PvPers, the PvE environment has been corrupted!
Here, I offer a compromise which effects only one system in the CoH engine and someone has to QQ about how it *might* effect PvPers who -- by the poster's own admission -- haved diminished in numbers. Allowing the Height Slider to go down to 1' tall will allow me to reset AK's height at 1', 1.5', or even 2', which are all within the normal sizing for cats. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Ah, yes, because nobody would choose to make a character with a ridiculous advantage into a place where competition is rampant. Being able to play your character has nothing to do with being unable to even target your opponent.
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Originally Posted by Amerikatt
Exactly! The PvPers QQ about all sorts of minutae instead of learning to play their classes better. They ruin the PvE experience and could actually throw several monkey wrenches into having the Height Slider lowered to 1' because (whether it's true or not) they *feel* as though *someone* *might* create a character of non-standard height who would challenge them to actually learn how to play properly!
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Too many concessions have been given to PvPers at the expense of PvEers. There should have always been 2 system for PvP-able powers, just like the powers on PvP IOs. Certain powers work one way in PvP, some work the same way they normally do in PvE. Seems simple to me.
I would certainly hope that the costumes would scale down, but I am not a programmer so I do not know the intricacies of scaling things down. I would think it would just need to have its parameters set internally to 1' rather than 4'.
AMERIKATT: Star of Stage, Screen, and Saturday morning cartoons! (Art by Psygon and ChristopherRobin)
"(Katt-Girl) obviously reads a lot of encyclopedias" -- Kiken
Dark_Respite's video -- Avatar: COH Style!
I Support Nerd Flirting and Even More Nerd Flirting!
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There's no harm in your wishing, but that doesn't remove a single one of the numerous technical barriers that people have outlined here. If the required coding were trivial, why wouldn't "Jake Emmett" have implemented it in his game (I believe they have four-legged running animation for their humanoids)? Likewise, wouldn't CoH's distinguished competition {unmentioned} online have this feature for their lore's canonical quadrupeds?|
Originally Posted by Amerikatt
I understand the technical issues side of the argument, but I am very serious about wanting to see my character look the way she is supposed to.
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As for minute slider options, this would immediately present the devs with a huge challenge to review all the maps to ensure they could handle the smallest size. Practical considerations will always trump what seem like simple requests.
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Powers can be separated between the two systems. How your character looks, and their size, cannot. As such, those two systems need to follow the same rules. And likely, the same problems would occur in both systems if you were to scale the models down to 1 foot tall. Imagine if you're a bubbler on a team with a 1' individual, but you can't target them to apply the bubbles.
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Originally Posted by Amerikatt
Too many concessions have been given to PvPers at the expense of PvEers. There should have always been 2 system for PvP-able powers, just like the powers on PvP IOs. Certain powers work one way in PvP, some work the same way they normally do in PvE. Seems simple to me.
I would certainly hope that the costumes would scale down, but I am not a programmer so I do not know the intricacies of scaling things down. I would think it would just need to have its parameters set internally to 1' rather than 4'. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Aren't the targeting boxes the same size for different size characters?|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Powers can be separated between the two systems. How your character looks, and their size, cannot. As such, those two systems need to follow the same rules. And likely, the same problems would occur in both systems if you were to scale the models down to 1 foot tall. Imagine if you're a bubbler on a team with a 1' individual, but you can't target them to apply the bubbles.
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Otherwise there wouldn't be a PvPer in the current game over 4ft.
Collision-wise, though. I have a couple of 4ft characters who cannot pass under piping in some sewer maps, where they look like they should, but my 6ft+ characters would obviously have to duck.
(Oh, of course, that bubbler can target through the team window.
)
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Other people have their characters the way the want them? O.O|
Originally Posted by Amerikatt
This thread is *not* a 'joke', Sam.
I understand the technical issues side of the argument, but I am very serious about wanting to see my character look the way she is supposed to. Other people have their characters the way *they* want them. No joke, Sam. Please don't troll me. You don't want a cat model, that's fine. I do, and I will continue to hold out hope -- no matter how long it takes nor how naive my request may sound to certain factions of the community! I also take umbrance to the people who insinuate that I am spamming my request. A 6-month hiatus does *not* qualify as 'spamming'. |
*goes and looks for DP/WP AT*
*comes back crying*
Why Amerikat?! Why?! You're a hero! You made me sad!
*wipes tears away*
*sniff*
Seriously, I hope everyone can make the heroes they want, but I also don't know how much you're willing to bend on yours. Do you just want to run around as a cat? Or are you looking for a cat in a cape?
If it's just to be cat, pushing for the animal shapeshifter could be the way to get you an always in cat form, character.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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The team window?
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Powers can be separated between the two systems. How your character looks, and their size, cannot. As such, those two systems need to follow the same rules. And likely, the same problems would occur in both systems if you were to scale the models down to 1 foot tall. Imagine if you're a bubbler on a team with a 1' individual, but you can't target them to apply the bubbles.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Yes, I had forgotten about that (yay for brain farts!). However, it still remains that we don't really know what kinds of problems that reducing characters to 1 foot would create, if any.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
The team window?
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Possibly true. I tend to just use TAB to target enemies, so I'm not so sure a 1ft target would be a problem.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Yes, I had forgotten about that (yay for brain farts!). However, it still remains that we don't really know what kinds of problems that reducing characters to 1 foot would create, if any.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I LOVE CATS!!!|
Originally Posted by 2short2care
By the response of my little request I can tell who all the cat haters are.
Go get em Amerikatt. |
<.<
>.>
In BBQ sauce . . .
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It'd be even more awesome if they turned out to be human-sabertooth tiger hybrids that were waiting in the tree to ambush you |
Originally Posted by 2short2care
Even if we can't as players have a 4 legged animal model for bodies. I would love to be able as a hero to be traveling in the city and here somebody yelling by a tree, Come down here Whiskers... Help my cat is stuck in a tree. Then as a hero help get the cat out of the tree. That would be awesome.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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That I actually don't know. I'm not sure what technical limitations there are to a greater variety in sizes, with the possible exception of the height slider becoming too sensitive. PvP really shouldn't be a concern, as all players have the same size and shape click box regardless of their model, so even if you're as big as a field mouse, you still have the click box of a grown man. Yes, even if you're a woman. It worse in reverse, as well - hugely tall, chunky dudes have the same hit box as an ordinary man.|
Originally Posted by Amerikatt
If I *have* to be this silly anthropomorphized feline hybrid thing, can I at least get the height slider lowered to 1', please? Being a 4' tall cat makes me *quite* self-conscious and breaks my immersion!
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I would, in fact, support extending the sliders both farther down and farther up. My agenda in this case is the opposite - I want a character roughly as big as a Fake Nemesis. But I see no reason why it can't work both ways. What's more, I'd like to see women resized so they're on the same height scale as men. Right now, they're about a foot shorter by default and are significantly shorter at maximum.
If you look under the hood and examine your costume files, there's a height value that goes from a negative value to a positive value, with 0 being the middle of the slider. Height caps vary from model to model (men cap at 25, but women go as high up as 38), but it seems to be capped more by choice, rather than by technical limitation.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Targeting boxes, hit boxes and collision boxes are the same for all player characters irrespective of their size, model or costume choice. There is no advantage to being small, because you can't fit through tighter areas than a bigger character and there are no disadvantages to being big because you just clip through the wall and pass through the same areas as smaller characters do. The only possible disadvantage is that taller characters put your map higher off the ground and closer to the ceiling in low-ceiling areas, but that's really just a nit-pick.
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Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Aren't the targeting boxes the same size for different size characters?
Otherwise there wouldn't be a PvPer in the current game over 4ft. Collision-wise, though. I have a couple of 4ft characters who cannot pass under piping in some sewer maps, where they look like they should, but my 6ft+ characters would obviously have to duck. (Oh, of course, that bubbler can target through the team window. ) |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm actually curious as to how disappointed the OP would be if a dev addressed them directly and said that not only was this idea not going to happen, but it wasn't even close to being near the radar.
If they did so, would you resign yourself to your character as they are, or would you simply continue as you are now?
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
As an owner of seven cats + outdoor strays whom I feed out of the kindness of my heart, I can state with very little uncertainty that we will never see cat/dog player characters in this game. In fact, we won't see cat/dog NPCs either.
This would mean a rework of:
*many if not most costume parts
*a new animation for every power that HAS an animation, in this game. Imagine the work. Just imagine the work for ONE set, Martial Arts. It boggles the mind.
*complete retrofitting of auras to fit new face models
*complete retrofitting of all capes to fit new body models
*weapons on an animal model body? Imagine the issues getting this done, for they would be many and several
*other stuff I have not thought of.
..... Does anyone seriously, seriously think that the developers are going to shell out the time and resources to do this? Could they do it even if they doubled their staff? I seriously doubt it. For this reason I say this is a vain hope. We can't even get improved animal HEADS in this game, and people think they are going to rework the game from the ground up so that we can play four-legged Supercats and Superdogs.
Ain't happening.