Controllers, with no pet control...Why?
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2010-10-27 13:00 in Suggestions and Ideas
I thought they were called controllers and dominators because they controlled/dominated the enemy.
Be well, people of CoH.
No.
Masterminds rely on their pets. They're the keystone of the AT. Yes, I'm aware of petless masterminds.
Controllers rely on their controls over *everything else.*
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they don't have control over what their pets do, but they have control over raw elemental forces enough to turn them into a semi autonomous creature. MMs get to control pets because they have a basic amount of intelligence to work with.
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Originally Posted by RaTBaT
The archtype is called "Controller" yet you have no control over your pets at all, why not give players the ability to control the pets? The devs should try to implement the pet control system of a Mastermind to Controllers/Dominators. What do you all think?
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"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
I'd say if Controllers/Dominators got Mastermind pet controls, then all my MM's should get 9 extra powers that can lockdown/cripple 1-16 enemies aswell.
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This suggestion has cropped up countless times since CoV launched.|
Originally Posted by RaTBaT
The archtype is called "Controller" yet you have no control over your pets at all, why not give players the ability to control the pets? The devs should try to implement the pet control system of a Mastermind to Controllers/Dominators. What do you all think?
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Thank the gods the Devs have NEVER shown any interest in doing this.
It's very obvious that the only way Controllers would be able to gain manual control over their pets would be to sacrifice crowd-control capability. Controllers (when played correctly) are almost god-like already - a Controller who also had MM-like control over their pets would be grossly overpowered in this game.
If you want to play an AT that can manually control their pets you play an MM.
If you want to play an AT which are the kings and queens of crowd-control you play a Controller.
This game will never allow the core strengths of two different ATs to be combined into one package.
I can only hope people will understand that and stop wishing for something that will never happen.
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The answer is the same as the other dozens of times this question has come up -- No.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
This suggestion has cropped up countless times since CoV launched.
Thank the gods the Devs have NEVER shown any interest in doing this. It's very obvious that the only way Controllers would be able to gain manual control over their pets would be to sacrifice crowd-control capability. Controllers (when played correctly) are almost god-like already - a Controller who also had MM-like control over their pets would be grossly overpowered in this game. If you want to play an AT that can manually control their pets you play an MM. If you want to play an AT which are the kings and queens of crowd-control you play a Controller. This game will never allow the core strengths of two different ATs to be combined into one package. I can only hope people will understand that and stop wishing for something that will never happen. |
It would make some controllers stupidly overpowered. I can just imagine what my Illusion/Radiation controller would be like if he could direct three Phantom Army guys, plus Phantasm and Phantasm's Decoy. With PA and the Decoy, I would have 4 invulnerable tanks that I could specifically control. That would just be sick.
It will not happen.
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I love how this re-occurring topic is purely an issue of semantics. Controllers control their enemies, not their pets. I'm willing to bet that if the AT was named anything else that these requests might happen a little less often. But probably not much.
I don't need the ability to tell my controller pets who to attack, but I would like to be able to switch them from aggressive to passive. I hate how they attack without restraint as soon as they get within range of a targetable enemy.
/unsigned for all the previously stated reasons.
Its the same thing tbh...
Controllers who can control pets is just like a MM with Kinetics as a secondary...completely Overpowered in this game
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Don't even mess with that can of worms.
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Originally Posted by HardRider
Its the same thing tbh...
Controllers who can control pets is just like a MM with Kinetics as a secondary...completely Overpowered in this game |
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Awww...come on! I want a Demon/Kinetic Mastermind to pair with my Claws/Stone Brute on test!
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Originally Posted by HardRider
Its the same thing tbh...
Controllers who can control pets is just like a MM with Kinetics as a secondary...completely Overpowered in this game |
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How many pets do most Controllers get anyways? One isn't it? And that one pet is way back at the end of the power progression scale. They spend most of their time just locking things in place..not really studying the precise control of "Hey Fry, Smolder, Burn...Go torch Recluse.". The Mastermind on the other hand is starting off at the begining giving orders to his small group of individuals (in most cases)...makes more sense that the Mastermind will have a better idea of what they are doing in terms of precision.
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Depends on the powerset. |
Originally Posted by Dragon_Shadow
How many pets do most Controllers get anyways? One isn't it? And that one pet is way back at the end of the power progression scale. They spend most of their time just locking things in place..not really studying the precise control of "Hey Fry, Smolder, Burn...Go torch Recluse.". The Mastermind on the other hand is starting off at the begining giving orders to his small group of individuals (in most cases)...makes more sense that the Mastermind will have a better idea of what they are doing in terms of precision.
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Mind control - 0 Summons
Earth control - 1 Summon
Electric control - 1 Summon
Fire control - 1 Summon
Gravity control - 1 Summon
Ice control - 1 Summon
Illusion control - 2 Summons
Plant control - 2 Summons (Carrion Creepers isn't really a pet)
And if Controllers/Dominators take Patron Power pools they get the option of choosing
Summon Coralax
Summon Tarantula
Summon Guardian (Mu)
Summon Seer (Fortunata)
Now the secondary powerset Storm Summoning does have 2 summons, but like Carrion Creepers, they don't really qualify as pets.
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Originally Posted by Dragon_Shadow
How many pets do most Controllers get anyways? One isn't it? And that one pet is way back at the end of the power progression scale. They spend most of their time just locking things in place..not really studying the precise control of "Hey Fry, Smolder, Burn...Go torch Recluse.". The Mastermind on the other hand is starting off at the begining giving orders to his small group of individuals (in most cases)...makes more sense that the Mastermind will have a better idea of what they are doing in terms of precision.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Depends on the powerset.
Mind control - 0 Summons Earth control - 1 Summon Electric control - 1 Summon Fire control - 1 Summon Gravity control - 1 Summon Ice control - 1 Summon Illusion control - 2 Summons Plant control - 2 Summons (Carrion Creepers isn't really a pet) And if Controllers/Dominators take Patron Power pools they get the option of choosing Summon Coralax Summon Tarantula Summon Guardian (Mu) Summon Seer (Fortunata) Now the secondary powerset Storm Summoning does have 2 summons, but like Carrion Creepers, they don't really qualify as pets. |
Regardless of the total number of pets involved the key thing to remember is that pets are NOT the primary thing Controllers are based on and never were. The Mastermind is this game's main "pet class". Controller pets are at best fire-and-forget secondary support to Controllers. They are often glorified cannon fodder that let Controllers concentrate on crowd control while their pets act as aggro absorbers.
Controllers are balanced because their pets play second fiddle to crowd control. Sadly I think people who mostly play MMs have a hard time understanding the dynamic of that kind of balance.
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Agree with the above, and I'd also like to note: it's not that hard to keep a handle on your pets. The key to a good controller in all aspects is aggro management and that includes pets.
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I get the impression that people the people who are making this type of suggestion think Controllers are the Heroic counterpart to Masterminds and that just isn't the case. Controllers are the counterpart to Dominators.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Controllers are balanced because their pets play second fiddle to crowd control. Sadly I think people who mostly play MMs have a hard time understanding the dynamic of that kind of balance.
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It actually isn't all that hard. I've teamed with a number of Masterminds over the years. Some of them were quite good at managing their pets but sadly I'm positive I can coordinate 3 Fire Imps with a Fire Controller far more effectively and precisely than many Masterminds I've seen. |
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
Agree with the above, and I'd also like to note: it's not that hard to keep a handle on your pets. The key to a good controller in all aspects is aggro management and that includes pets.
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That might have something to do with it. I think people who get used to playing with pets as their primary form of offense/defense start to assume that all pets should be equally functional regardless of AT. They fail to realize/accept there's a legitimate reason for another AT to have different levels of control over things like this.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I get the impression that people the people who are making this type of suggestion think Controllers are the Heroic counterpart to Masterminds and that just isn't the case. Controllers are the counterpart to Dominators.
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I realize that if you're used to being able to micromanage pets that it can be annoying when you can't do that. I'm actually the reverse side of that coin - I've been playing Controllers for so long that I could never enjoy playing Masterminds because I found the practical REQUIREMENT to micromanage their pets to be annoying and tedious.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Carrion Creepers isn't really a pet...
, but like Carrion Creepers, they don't really qualify as pets. |
*gasp*
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"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
While it would be interesting to have the Mastermind controls, if this was done, every controller pet would need a serious nerf. They're balanced on the premise that you DO have limited say on what they say or do-- you're often using your enemy-control powers just to mitigate some of the trouble they get you into. They'd just be way too powerful without a hard nerf.
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And Castle has said this much.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
They'd just be way too powerful without a hard nerf.
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The OP used a (sort of) clever play of words to support his case. If you want a change, you have to justify reasons for said change. Perhaps some analysis to prove that controllers are a somehow inferior AT (good luck there) which could be "corrected" by adding control to their pets.
Saying "Controllers have derp control in their name, why derp can't they control derp pets derp?" doesn't work.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
And Castle has said this much.
The OP used a (sort of) clever play of words to support his case. If you want a change, you have to justify reasons for said change. Perhaps some analysis to prove that controllers are a somehow inferior AT (good luck there) which could be "corrected" by adding control to their pets. Saying "Controllers have derp control in their name, why derp can't they control derp pets derp?" doesn't work. |
Truth!
And I understand and agree with the reasons why Controllers cannot have MM-like control over their pets... However, I just only recently had a realization.
Ever since I started playing CoH, I've wanted to, one day, make an Illusion Control character. I just needed to find the character concept and run with it when the time and inspiration came about.
It never has happened (other alts, not enough time, lack of concept that inspires me, etc etc).
Then, recently, I was thinking (after playing with a few rather hasty and chaotic Illusion Controllers) Wow... I would probably HATE playing an Illusion Controller, what with not having basically any control over my pets!!
I have a hard enough time cursing and wondering what in tarnation is wrong with most teammates running around like headless chickens... and then with harnessing my Master Mind's henchmen with an iron fist and cursing them up and down for running off and needing to be repeatedly told what to do...
I do not think that a free-willed pet is good for my happy fun time, haha!
Then again... since I can't control them... I might enjoy it more than I think!
*shrugs*
So, I get the initial thought of wanting more control... I get the reasons why they shouldn't have more control... And I occasionally like to ramble.
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Up until the recent AI issues, Illusion control pets were actually some of the most predictable and reliable.
Not to mention if you're teaming with multiple Ill controllers, chaos is pretty much something they're going to seek out. If one or more of them is /storm all bets are off.
Getting things into nice neat piles is a source of joy to me. But so is sending an entire room spawned for 8 into screaming running chaos and still not having any worries about dying. Try it sometime, you may like it more than you think 
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
The archtype is called "Controller" yet you have no control over your pets at all, why not give players the ability to control the pets? The devs should try to implement the pet control system of a Mastermind to Controllers/Dominators. What do you all think?